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STUDENT LOANS....I have to pay those back!?!

Since I know there are some of you monkeys out there that aren't swinging pre-pubescent balls around, I am inquiring of you!

What advice do you have for those students and myself who have graduated from college with a mountain of student loan debt?

-- What payment plans have you experienced that actually work towards paying off your loans while saving money?
-- When is the best time to Refinance and what are the best companies for doing so?
-- What is the ideal % of your monthly income that should be devoted to your loans?
-- What are some other misc. pieces of advice you have for paying off student loans?

Comments (214)

Jun 29, 2017

BUMP -- Does anyone have any experience with this??

Jun 29, 2017

I recommend taking a part time job at a local strip club and putting about 69% of your earnings towards your student loans

Jun 29, 2017

Okay, I like the direction, but the practicality might be lacking....what else we got, Monkeys??

Jun 29, 2017

Get on IBR

    • 1
Jun 29, 2017

how much is your interest rate? how much do you have? what is your salary range? expenses?

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Jun 29, 2017

1.) With a starting salary out of college you probably aren't making a lot of money. Good rule of thumb is to pay double your monthly payment each month. This is generally an accelerated way of paying off your principal amount while still putting a comfortable amount of money in your savings.

2.) Not sure, I've never refinanced. A couple of my close friends have used SOFI. SOFI originally started by refinancing students with professional degrees from prestigious universities and guaranteed 100,000+ salaries. They've since gotten bigger and have expanded their business.

3.) Find something that works for you, whatever you're comfortable paying off and living off of. There is no exact answer here.

4.) The faster you pay off your principal loan amount, the less interest you have to pay over time. Pay your loan off as quickly as possible and don't let it fester.

    • 4
Jun 30, 2017

helpful and clear

    • 1
Jun 29, 2017

Student loan interest is subsidized through the current tax code. Technically you'd generate more wealth through reinvesting your extra cash and making a return off of it, but I always paid extra towards debt because I'm a pansy and like the peace of mind of owing as little to other people as possible.

Hopefully you haven't incurred giant amounts of student debt, or if you have, you have an outsized income to show for it where servicing it isn't an issue.

Also, I assume you're familiar enough with amortization tables to know what extra principal payments early on does to your interest expense over the life of the loan.

    • 1
Jun 30, 2017

this immediately came to mind, but i haven't done the math cause I'm student loan debt free.

Jun 29, 2017

Are you really Martin Shrekli?

Jul 3, 2017

Figure our your loan payment with the fixed rate and the variable rate and then take the lower variable interest rate but make payments as if you were paying the higher fixed rate so you end up pre-paying loan principal. Gets you the lowest rate but helps you hedge in case rates rise (because, worst case if rates rise, you'll be paying a higher interest rate on less principal).

Jul 3, 2017

Have you tried talking to other institutions? From my experience with MBA loan, SoFi isn't competitive and you can get a much better rate from a bank.

As to fixed vs. variable, it really depend on the spread, when I took my loan, the spread was almost 400bps (although to be fair, that's private vs. federal so not an apple to apple comparison) so going private and variable was a no brainer. it's been almost 5 years and rates have only risen about 30bps so made the right decision

Jul 3, 2017

IDK but I'm in a similar boat so any advice would be helpful

Jul 3, 2017

I'm also in a similar boat as well except that I might even need to face the problem before graduation.

Jul 3, 2017

At 20 year pay-off period, that's about $1,200/month.

I would plan on eating a lot of ramen, shopping at Walmart and abstaining from alcohol for a few years.

Jul 3, 2017

you wont be analyst forever buddy, keep chugging, 150k will be small change someday

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

yeah same here. one bi-weekly check goes to rent, one bi-weekly check goes to student loans

Jul 3, 2017

Here are a couple of the factors I was thinking about:

1.) Tax deductions for the interest - although I believe it's only tax deductible up to $2500...right?

2.) Opportunity-cost of investing for returns in excess of 7%

3.) Credit score and wanting to invest in real-estate down the road

4.) My dream: Have my bonus paid directly to my creditors, in order that it doesn't hit my tax grid

What do you guys think?

Jul 3, 2017

Tax deductibility stops once you make 70K or above. Student loan debt is a gun to your head, you sure as hell better pay it back or else the govt will garnish your friggin boxers.

Jul 3, 2017

agree100%. this shit is pretty toxic. b/c private creditors cant 'forclose' on your education, borrower rights are pretty fucked. check the fine print.

pay off ASAP.

man made the money, money never made the man

Jul 3, 2017

Holy shit. And I was worried about trying to pay off $25K.

"I do not think there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcom

Jul 3, 2017

Look at it like this. At least you will be able to pay it off. I have been reading so many articles about people who went to top schools for liberal arts, etc and have 100-150K in debt and can't make 30K a year. So sad.

I don't think student loan should be easy to discharge, but holy crap, read some stories about people getting sick or being taken advantage of from ITTech or something and how student loan debt utterly destroys their lives. Atomic bomb debt man.

Pay it down ASAP.

Jul 3, 2017

Absolutely. Even bankruptcy can't touch it.

Jul 3, 2017

Yeah, I'm looking at around 40-50K coming out of undergrad, and my plan is to devote a large portion of my income and hopefully have it paid off in 5 yrs. Luckily though, I'm looking at living in Texas where taxes won't be as outrageous as in NY. $1,200 / mo. is definitely doable though, and think of it this way, if you can't spend a ton of money to go out or whatever, stay in the office and do some extra work to get ahead, study for CFA, etc. You'll definitely be in the office alot, so it's not like you'll have an abundance of free time and no cash to go enjoy yourself.

And in my opinion, if you go to a top LAC and take on $150K in debt, you deserve what's coming to you. If you're supposed to be smart and you take on that much debt without pursuing a career where you can pay it off, you deserve to be miserable, it's just irresponsible.

"I just want to be a monkey of average intelligence who wears a suit. I'll go to business school!"

Jul 3, 2017

$150k for your undergrad!!? I thought my $30k was bad. Be smart with your money and live off ramen.

Jul 3, 2017

I have a theory that Education is a bubble

Due to overpriced degree which do not offer the necessary return

Good article:

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/43436...

Jul 3, 2017

this an interesting theory. i think if you have a good job/career coming out of college and are making at least $50K coming out, you will be ok. your income will likely increase in perpetuity, and min. loan pmts will eventually be less of a burden.

but if you go to a no name college or majored in something thats not "in-demand" or do not have a good career track with growth potential, than you are screwed.

man made the money, money never made the man

Jul 3, 2017

to the op,
you went to a target, correct?

Jul 3, 2017

another option you might want to look into is the automatic discharge after a certain period of
on time payment.

ie my student loans will be "all paid" after 300 months of on time payment...
of course 300 months is a long time, paying the minimum amount for 300 months
is much better than trying to pay off the whole thing...

you can even adjust your min payments with your income (income sensitive)

Jul 3, 2017

I go to a target. For me, it basically came down to a free ride at our (pretty good) state school on the honors program, or take on a bunch of debt to come to a much better school. I knew I wanted to be in business of some form, plus, I decided you can't put a price on being an educated person... so I never really gave it a thought until now.

I don't regret the decision. I know people from high school who went to the other school, and they are exactly the same as they were in HS.

Bean, you really want to have student debt for 25 years? How are you going to get a mortgage?

Also, yes, higher education is becoming ridiculously expensive. I'm lucky that I enjoy the finance industry and have gotten a great spot. However, for each one of 'me,' there are 20 people who are in finance just to pay off loans, 200 who didn't make it, and 500 who are just going to be drowning in debt in another industry for 10-15 years.

In retrospect, I may have considered law school if it weren't for the debt. But even if I wanted to take on an additional 150-160k in debt for law school tuition, I probably wouldn't have gotten financing.

I will probably devote as much of my monthly income as possible, and then throw my entire bonus at it for 2-3 years--which is why I was half serious when I asked if my bank can pay my creditor directly instead of me (to avoid the tax hit). I can't even imagine what it's like for you guys who are pocketing all of your bonus in year 1!

I think when it comes to college, the middle class (my background) really gets screwed (just in terms of tuition...I know my education has allowed me to be upwardly mobile...). Rich kids' parents pay for it, and the poor kids are heavily subsidized. Odd system we have here.

Jul 3, 2017

@MJP..

Of course not...nobody would...
I'm just saying (not knowing your financial situation 100%) that if your struggling, it's an option...

Jul 3, 2017

I have slightly different situation and outlook....

I came from a very middle class family and went to a cheap (crappy) state school. Coming out of there with a light debtload I went and got a MAcc because my current degree wasn't going to get me anywhere. I financed my entire MAcc program and don't regret it for a minute.

I was lucky enough to consolidate most of my debt (~$50k) at 3% and an extra $10k for ~8%. I paid that 8% down off in about a year and am planning on making the miminmum payments on the other chuck for the next 25 years. My interest rate has actually reduced to 2.75 because I made a certain # of on-time electronic payments.

Notes:
I believe the student loan debt has actually helped me qualify for a very nice house. Obviously, the small monthly payments count against you, but 4 years of on-time payments helped me build a great credit score.

It was eluded to above, but the tax break is actually phased out from $60-70k. Meaning to deduct 100% of your interest you need to make under $60k and if you're above $70k you can't deduct anything. This totally sucked when I hit this in my second year.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy

Jul 3, 2017

While I have no debt, I know people with far more debt than $80k coming out of undergrad and they manage just fine. The debt prevents them from going out every weekend and splurging on nice things, but they can still live comfortably (with a roommate) and make payments. Personally, I think education, if taken seriously, is often a good investment. However, it is a substantial investment. If you're pulling in $50k a year, after taxes and necessities you've probably only have $10k of discretionary spending a year (completely made-up estimate that will change wildly with lifestyle etc.). At that salary level, your debt is essentially eight years worth of 100% of your discretionary spending... that's A LOT.

So, the choice is up to you, but I'd say go for it.

Jul 3, 2017

If you can get a decent job in this field, comp will be substantially above 50k. 1st year bankers and 1st years in sales and trading (out of undergrad) make 80 base + bonus of 20-80k depending on the year.

1st years in asset management (wellington, fidelity) make 80k base + small end of year bonus.

Jul 3, 2017
CashCow:

If you can get a decent job in this field, comp will be substantially above 50k. 1st year bankers and 1st years in sales and trading (out of undergrad) make 80 base + bonus of 20-80k depending on the year.

1st years in asset management (wellington, fidelity) make 80k base + small end of year bonus.

I'm hoping for AM. Are the salaries that high for smaller firms in regional markets?

Jul 3, 2017

If you have a masters, I wouldn't accept a position with less than that figure.

Bigger places will almost certainly tend to pay more. If you are looking for a certain location, consider working in a regional office of one of the bigger places as comp should be nearly identical.

Eg:

http://www.wellington.com/Who_We_Are/Worldwide_Loc...
Regardless, as long as you are in a city (NY, LA, SF, Boston, Chicago, DC), comp should be reasonable.

Jul 3, 2017

What school would you be getting the MSF from? That's the big question.

If you can get a half decent job somewhere right out of ugrad, I would go for it and worry about grad school later on, no question, regardless of where you would get the MSF from.

If you're coming from an unknown ugrad school and you're getting the MSF from a place like Berekely or Princeton than I think it's no brainer that you should go for it.

Jul 3, 2017
Hayek:

What school would you be getting the MSF from? That's the big question.

Not sure. It probably wouldn't be a really high ranked school.

Hayek:

If you can get a half decent job somewhere right out of ugrad, I would go for it and worry about grad school later on, no question, regardless of where you would get the MSF from.

Yeah, that's what I want to do. I majored in econ and minored in math, but didn't take any finance courses as an undergrad (and don't know a whole lot about finance in the first place). I want to get a finance job, but I fear my lack of finance background may keep me out of good jobs. If that's the case, I'm brainstorming alternative routes that will allow me to break in a couple years down the road, and the MSF seems like one of the top options. So hopefully I can get a job, and then I can do exactly what you recommend, that is, worry about grad school down the road.

P.S. Hayek, as in F.A. Hayek?

Jul 3, 2017

In my opinion, there is "good" debt and "bad" debt, in the most simplistic of terms and basic scenarios. Good debt would be primarily comprised of residential mortgages and student loans. Bad debt would be high-interest credit card debt (assuming you carry balances).

Even with high balances ($75+), the interest rate on your student loans should be incredibly low relative to other consumer debt products, plus you can get a payment deferral after graduation and pay-down at your leisure while you increase your earnings.

Of all things that increase the liabilities side of your balance sheet, an education is probably the least depreciable. Go for it. Study hard and make it count.

Best of luck.

Jul 3, 2017

I know a lot of people that spent big bucks on MBAs and MSFs and they still owe more on their degrees than what they make because they thought the name of the school doesn't matter. Big Banks have this type of autospam button for applications that don't have a designer name on them. Nowdays it's better to pay down some debt and build a name for yourself. So I would recommend starting at the bottom and working your way up while you pay back your undergrad. That way if things don't work out as planned at least you won't be that guy eating Spaghettios and living in a bathtub although you went to gradschool.

Jul 3, 2017

sound like NPV to me.

how much debt will you be able to pay and at what rate, with both of your options? If you can calculate getting out of the hole sooner, or think the MBA will really benefit you in the long run, those are things you have to take into account.

get yourself a BAII plus.

Jul 3, 2017

I've been sort of in your shoes, and what I'd tell you is that during the years until you pay the debt off, what happens is that it can give you less room to maneuver at different stages in your career.

Keep in mind that there isn't a steady trajectory for a Wall Street career. Everybody's business gets affected by the business cycle, so you have fat years and lean years, or some years where you could be laid off and not work much at all. That just means that the debt tends to linger, and you can't be certain exactly when you'll be able to pay it all off. I wouldn't say that this is a game-changer for your overall decision, but just keep in mind that your income will probably fluctuate.

There are some times I would have liked to have taken bigger risks in my career (for example, gone to work for a small, start-up shop where base salaries were modest but my share of the upside would have been huge) but I just couldn't justify it because of the loan burden. On the other hand, student loans are one of the few loan categories where you can just defer paying them for a time, practically at will, without any hit to your credit rating. (Of course you wind up paying for the privilege via compound interest, but you get what I mean.)

Jul 3, 2017
Uncle_C:

sound like NPV to me.

how much debt will you be able to pay and at what rate, with both of your options? If you can calculate getting out of the hole sooner, or think the MBA will really benefit you in the long run, those are things you have to take into account.

get yourself a BAII plus.

There's just a large degree of uncertainty in my calculation, so I figured I'd ask people who've likely been through these decisions before, and have a good idea what kind of benefit the degree would have on my future earning, etc.

hrdnitlr:

I've been sort of in your shoes, and what I'd tell you is that during the years until you pay the debt off, what happens is that it can give you less room to maneuver at different stages in your career.

Keep in mind that there isn't a steady trajectory for a Wall Street career. Everybody's business gets affected by the business cycle, so you have fat years and lean years, or some years where you could be laid off and not work much at all. That just means that the debt tends to linger, and you can't be certain exactly when you'll be able to pay it all off. I wouldn't say that this is a game-changer for your overall decision, but just keep in mind that your income will probably fluctuate.

There are some times I would have liked to have taken bigger risks in my career (for example, gone to work for a small, start-up shop where base salaries were modest but my share of the upside would have been huge) but I just couldn't justify it because of the loan burden. On the other hand, student loans are one of the few loan categories where you can just defer paying them for a time, practically at will, without any hit to your credit rating. (Of course you wind up paying for the privilege via compound interest, but you get what I mean.)

Thanks for that, I didn't really consider the start up thing. It'd definitely be nice to be able to take some risks with a high potential reward if the opportunity presented itself. Do you mind me asking how much debt you had?

What do you mean you can just defer paying them without a hit to your credit?

Jul 3, 2017

Some countries can grant student loans that have a deferred payback system. In Canada, we have one that doesn't accrue interest for a period of time. Something like you don't have to pay a cent for two years, then minimum monthly payments at $60, and finally, it doesn't accrue interest until you graduate.

From what I've seen, the upper limit in loan amounts are whatever the guarantors can pony up in way of assets. Typical loans or lines of credit, secured by an asset can use up to 80% of your equity while limiting a debt to service ratio no greater than 45% in extreme cases.
Mortgages allow for up to 95% loan to value amounts.

Jul 3, 2017

Without any courses in finance and no work experience I'd hesitate to add more debt specializing in this field until you had some first hand experience with it. Get some work experience first to confirm it is something you really want to do. Finance isn't for everyone, even those who have great quant skills. Some people find it boring.

Good luck.

Jul 3, 2017

Work for a little bit dude. MSF is specialized and you better love finance if you do it. Sit down and read through those CFA level 1 books. If your not deeply interested in them, dont waste time and money doing an MSF. Most recruiters look for MBA's instead so your not going to necessarily come out of things better off anyway.

That being said, 50-60K in student debt is nothing. I know a lawyer friend with 150K.

Jul 3, 2017

How much debt will you be able to pay and at what rate, with the same options?
If you can calculate the hole early, and I think the MBA will really benefit in the long run, these are things you should consider.

Thanks
Ricky Mike
Student Loans

Jul 3, 2017

Ooof, that's a rough situation. Mine was similar, except I went to work and not college. All I can say is, good luck man.

Other thing to mention: your dad isn't an asshole. He worked his ass off for his money, it's his, and he decides what to do with it (or he is one of the few that inherited it/won the lotto/whatever, point is it's his). I don't know what your situation is, but I do know you will earn ridiculous amounts of respect from those around you if you continue to give your dad the "benefits" of being a parent. Specifically, talking to him, asking his advice, sharing your life with him, etc. If nothing else, do it for yourself, I made the mistake of alienating my family for a while and I still feel really badly about it.

Jul 3, 2017

which school are you paying all that money for currently ?

Jul 3, 2017

I'm pretty sure that banks will continue to lend you money. They have no information about your creditworthiness (like most college students). If you believe that you are truly capable of breaking into IB, then I think a move to a target school would be well worth it. It can't cost too much more than what you pay now as an international student. If you think that the alumni/prestige/OCR is a lot better than the semi-target you are at, you should go to the best school you can get into. Just remember that the school alone will not always get you the job. You need to stay on top of internships and networking. Good Luck.

Jul 3, 2017

If you live frugally, and work at a place that gives a decent bonus, you can pay off that 100k in your first two to three years.

The hard part will be getting a job in IB in the first place

Jul 3, 2017

Be frugal, get a part time job, bust your ass, use excel to calculate your personal finances and don't ask others to do it for you...you do want to work in finance right?

Do what you want not what you can!

Jul 3, 2017
Jul 3, 2017

What is your country of origin?

If it is Latin America, the IDB has a $15,000 loan for students plus other type of grants.
They also have an IDB-Japan scholarship.

Check them out.
Take a part time job on campus since you can't work off campus.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

Jul 3, 2017

man... i feel for you man.. i used to be in the same position as you so i know what you are going through at the moment.... how come you are able to borrow loans from citi though? i am assuming you have some relative here who's willing to cosign the loan?

Jul 3, 2017

Wow. My guess is that your Citi loan is not a traditional gov backed student loan so you must have a high interest rate

There are schools out there that WILL give financial aid to foreign students. PM me and I'll help you find a list.

Jul 3, 2017

Curious what school you are attending too. Everyone except a select few have to take out student loans, just go with it and bust your ass to pay them off before interest eats you alive. Citi will give you all you need, no doubt about it.

Jul 3, 2017

I was in almost the same situation back in '06, and I absolutely hate the fact that someone else has to go through this.

How were you even able to get a loan in the first place? Internationals need to have a co-signer, and a bunch of other inconvenient pre-reqs.

As for your questions:

1) If you've managed to get $$$ for your Freshman year, it's easy to keep it going "if you're in good academic standing".

2) Definitely transfer to a target. I did, and it helped tremendously.

3) If you manage to get IBD (and stay in finance for a while), don't worry about money. You'll be fine as long as you're frugal.

Jul 3, 2017

D M, like he said, he's an International. You'll find that people in other countries have a very different idea of what being a parent means. My father - despite being worth millions - straight up refused to pay 1 cent for tuition. He was always like this, and I had to find creative means of studying, since he was vehemently against paying for books/stationery.

Having such a "parent" is harder than having a parent who can't pay, because now you don't have access to FinAid because according to colleges, you don't need it.

It's nice that you've reconciled with your father, but not every story has a happy ending.

Jul 3, 2017

I understand that not every story has a happy ending, I've seen plenty that didn't. It doesn't mean it's not worth trying to make shit work out. And, I am very aware of what happens when you have a parent who makes decent money and you get put in that situation (I didn't try and go to school, but there were plenty of other luxuries/things I could've had: a car to get to work, health insurance, even, yes, a bed).

The point is that there is no point to letting this shit control your life. The kid took a huge step by asking for help/advice. The next big step for him is (assuming his relationship with his parents is shit) realizing that his parents do care, even if it's in a really weird way, and that they can still help him out in life. Nothing beats having family around you, whether it's your blood family or your chosen family.

Jul 3, 2017

OP, why didn't you just do IB in your home country?

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

OK there are a lot of questions so I'll try to answer them. I know it is not wise to divulge too much so I'll try not to.

Reconciliation is out, when I was at the airport he said, "if you get that ticket, I'll disown you." I have not spoken to him since and my mom has sent me whatever savings she hid from him.

It's a school in the suburbs of Boston and I was admitted into a target in NYC so I was thinking the best move would be to work hard here and then transfer there or some place better next year.

I am not from Latin America but South Asia so IB isn't "developed" there. You could say it is in India, but that's not where I'm from.

I don't want to pidgeon-hole myself into IB but it seems I have no choice because I do not want to be in a lot of debt.

Yes I have an aunt who is willing to co-sign. My main concern is getting a loan for the next couple of years so I can at least be in a better position than I am now.

It seems paying back is not the issue but landing the job is?

Jul 3, 2017

Oh and a side-note. I agree that it is his money and he can do what he wants but I'd rather have a parent who can not pay than one who won't. Most parents here at least provide support in other ways and as far as I'm concerned, that goes a long way.

Jul 3, 2017

So you are at BC/Tufts/Bentley and can transfer to NYU/Columbia? I think you really need to speak with admissions/financial aid and see how much each place will cost you. All of those schools have pretty good placement in banking (obviously some better than others). What's done is done, now you need to put yourself in the best situation to succeed. Quitting school or transferring to a lesser school for a full ride probably aren't your best options, but they are really the only scenarios where you can avoid taking on debt.

Don't forget to apply to every scholarship under the sun. Not sure how this works internationally, but I assume you are no longer a dependent of your parents? Do you have US citizenship or no? If you are qualified for standard financial aid, then always try and negotiate for more with the fin aid office.

Jul 3, 2017
duffmt6:

So you are at BC/Tufts/Bentley and can transfer to NYU/Columbia? .

No he is at Brandeis

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

Jul 3, 2017

Does your answer change if I say not Brandeis?

Jul 3, 2017
boardsole:

Does your answer change if I say not Brandeis?

What country are you from? How did you manage to get that loan?

Jul 3, 2017
boardsole:

Does your answer change if I say not Brandeis?

I think you have a reasonable shot at getting into banking from Bentley, Tufts or BC. It would be easier from NYU or Columbia. You need to do a cost benefit analysis.

Jul 3, 2017

I'm from South Asia originally. So I know what you're going through.

First decide whether or not you want to be in finance (specifically IB/PE). If you do not want to be in finance, pick whichever school is the cheapest/ gives you more FinAid. Otherwise, you're just going to be saddled with a tonne of unnecessary debt for the next decade.

However, if you love finance, and it seems like something you might want to do long-term, then do a bit of self-reflection. Ask yourself if you can get into a target (A concise list of target schools).
If the answer is yes, then do the following:

1) Go to the WSO FAQ section, and again, read everything.

2) Purchase all the relevant WSO guides.

3) Join at least 3 different school clubs (2 finance, and 1 non-finance).

4) Read the WSJ and FT daily.

5) Get a BB PWM gig this summer, it's not too late, and more importantly, not too difficult. Since you're an International, you can use either CPT or OPT for the internship; do not use OPT. Save that for FT. Use CPT for this, and all subsequent internships.

6) Major in Finance (or Economics if your college does not offer Finance). This is of the utmost importance, because otherwise, you would not be able to use CPT.

7) Transfer to the best University that you possibly can (according to the hierarchy laid out in the link I provided in the 3rd paragraph). Transfer after your sophomore year. Obviously, still try to get FinAid, but don't base your college decision on it. I paid sticker for my college (Ivy), and it was worth every penny. Go to College Confidential for details on the transfer process.

8) Try to get a 4.0 GPA every semester. It's really not that difficult, especially in a relatively easy major like Finance/Econ. Attend all the classes, bum notes off the nerds, have a solid work-ethic, and you'll be golden.

9) Reach out to alumni early on. Feel free to use up all the alumni from your first school in your first 2 years, because you can't use them after you've transferred.

Best of luck.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

^^^ Some damn good advice. I bet over 90% of people in IB took those steps.

Jul 3, 2017

Thank you Leonidas. That is solid advice and I will take it, sir.

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Jul 3, 2017

Have you looked at scholarships? I know most of the Ivy's have great financial aid departments. Although I do not attend an IVY, my school costs about 43k a year, but I believe it is worth it (even if I had to pay the full amount with no scholarships). The recruiting is good, great network of people, so I love it.

Bottom line, if I had gotten in Penn or Stanford (my 'reach' schools), I would have definetely gone and assumed the debt. I think it is like a simple DCF analysis, where your future CF's will make your decision to attend a very positive NPV project.

Jul 3, 2017

.

Jul 3, 2017

Unfortunately, it's too late to apply for scholarships. But yeah, I definitely look at it as a potential investment and I think it makes sense. My parents just have major reservations against it (even though it's me who's taking out the loans). I understand their concern that I'll be in debt for quite awhile, but they don't seem to understand that, recruiting opportunities aside, this is a school that is perfect for me in so many ways. The great network and recruiting is the cherry on top of an already-delicious sundae.

But I don't want to make a hasty decision - I want to hear all the sides to the argument.

Jul 3, 2017

I can't say i've been there or done that, but i know many people who have/are.

Student loans are definitely NOT the worst thing you can have. They up your credit score and carry minimal burden. If you truly love the school then I think it's definitely worth it. In the end, you're not only getting an education, but you're getting a very strong network, diverse friends, and an overall great experience. And, if you happen to go to one of those schools which has a very strong and active alum network, then that's an added bonus.

What about financial aid? Most of the ivies have made a strong initiative in pushing for alot of aid for their students (coming to mind is Harvard's new initiative of which Dartmouth followed suit, and Princeton's $25bn+ endowment. NOt sure about the other schools but those were the ones recently in the news).

Jul 3, 2017

Not going to college is NPV positive.

I think that Ivies will give you a great experience and will set you up to repay that debt. There are also a lot of top-tier schools without the Ivy title which may be more forgiving with financial aid. I remember a case where a student was given a free ride to Duke on merit but instead chose to attend Harvard for $40K.

That said, I do attend an Ivy and am glad I took the opportunity.

Jul 3, 2017

You're taking out 37,500 in loans ever year? What's wrong with the financial aid department because that doesn't make any sense. Most of the financial aid package should be grants/scholarships especially since all the top schools make a big deal about how most students graduate with pretty low debt

Jul 3, 2017

They have done comparative studies on whether or not it makes sense to go to a mid-level school free of charge or a top tier school assuming all the tuition in debt. The answer is always the same...... top tier school assuming a lot in debt. This is an easy choice unless your comparing similar schools with different financial aid packages. You will find that your job possibilities become VERY MUCH limited by going to a mid tier school just to get a free ride. You will never want to make the decision of passing up an ivy so that you can go somewhere tuition free.

The opportunities an ivy give you directly after school and going forward will always outweigh the amount of debt you assume. The real problem is for kids who go to private schools that are not prestigious. In this case, they assume over 100 thousand in debt and are unable to find a job that can help support their debt payments. Along with this, they cannot default on their student loans so then it becomes a pretty tough situation.

Jul 3, 2017

Nkid, what are these studies? I have a hard time believing that paying full sticker price for Harvard or Princeton is a better investment than going to UCBerkeley/UMich/UVA (instate) or taking merit money at a school like Chicago.

Jul 3, 2017

worth it absolutely. Look at it as paying for a higher probability of landing in a high-paying job. If you go to a different school and mess up it's very hard to make it. If you go to a top target networking becomes MUCH easier to find yourself a job with. Your expected cash flow value thus increases after graduation.

Plus, DCF is kind of worthless to value something like this. The real effects of the network you gain start having their effects based on too many of your own personal choices at least a few years after you graduate. Too unpredictable. Not everything in life should be decided based on maximization of cash.

Also, on debt, sure you can't cut a deal with your parents to help out a bit more? It sounds like you dont have financial aid, or at least very little. While I do have aid, i'd think that you could at least cut out a deal similar to mine, with my parents putting in a bigger chunk of their own money in return for me paying for my little brother's college ed.

Jul 3, 2017

I have a different view than these folks - I actually think that it's a very poor idea, depending on your other options.

  1. Have you calculated what your payment schedule will be like once you graduate? I'm guessing it will be in excess of $1000/month. Even if you land at an investment bank, can you cover living expenses plus your loan payment on 60k per year (pre-bonus)?
  2. Ok, you're "certain" you want to go into finance as a high school senior. Not to be too harsh, but you probably have very little idea of what finance is - after taking a few classes or doing an internship, you may decide it's like getting teeth pulled. And what then? Can you make the 150 grand repayment on a more typical salary of 50-80k?
  3. Even if you decide it is your destiny to be a banker, there's no guarantee those banks will want you, even from a HYPS. People screw up all the time.
  4. You WILL have to go back to school at some point. Law school? An extra 150k. Med School? 200+k. Even if you do the analyst program, and get into B-School, you'll be looking at another 90k (minimum) in tuition and living expenses. You'll literally be living in student debt till your mid 30s.

Bottom line - if you were good enough to get into this great school, you have other options and an incredibly bright future. Don't underestimate how this level of debt will constrain your options coming out of school. Don't get caught up in chasing prestige.

Jul 3, 2017

Did not have quite that much debt, but had a substantial amount and I haven't paid it all off yet even with last year's bonus, last year's earnings and this year's earnings.

I think it's actually a bad idea for one simple reason: taking out that much debt effectively forces you down a certain path, usually finance. If you decide to change and do something else, you lose that flexibility.

You say you are "certain you want to do finance" now but you haven't even graduated from high school yet. How on earth could you possibly know exactly what you want to do?

I know this is in disagreement with what other people have written above, but I have done banking for 2 years and took on a ton of debt to go to a target school, and these are my honest thoughts. If anyone else here can say "been there and done that" I will take them seriously. :)

You may not appreciate or understand all of this from where you are right now, but as someone who had similar thoughts as you did back then, I can tell you that having your flexibility limited and being forced to go into one field is NOT a good position to be in.

Don't get me wrong: I do think going to a top school is a great experience and it's most definitely better to go there rather than somewhere of lesser quality.

HOWEVER, I think it's a really bad idea to use so much debt to pay for it - applying for tons of scholarships is a MUCH better approach and one which I wish I had utilized more.

True story: Back when I made up my mind to go to a top school, I said, "Well, I don't really need that much in scholarship money... I'm going to be a rich lawyer one day and I can pay everything off then!" so I didn't apply for as much as I could have.

What ended up happening? I changed my mind about 15 times about what I wanted to do and ended up in finance, and now I'm not about to do something completely different!

The point is, no one REALLY knows exactly what they want to do, especially at your age, and I would strongly advise other alternatives to taking out that much debt.

Jul 3, 2017

I was under the impression the OP was transferring to this Ivy and somehow has an SA internship at a BB investment bank this summer (following his freshman year).

Jul 3, 2017

Zero debt. Tuition in Canada is cheap relative to similar calibre schools in the states. Each summer internship essentually paid for 2 years of tuition.

Jul 3, 2017

If you have what it takes to make it where you want to go without going to an Ivy, then why pay to go to school?

Jul 3, 2017

I'm gonna have to reiterate what a lot of others have said: How the hell did you get that much debt? The top ivies are always bragging about this or that new FA initiative and it seems like quite a few of them have eliminated loans all together!

Did you forget to apply for FA or something?

Jul 3, 2017

No, that's the thing - I think the school made a mistake with my financial aid application. That's why I haven't lost hope yet. I'm in the midst of appealing the financial aid decision.

I wanted to thank everyone for replying - it means a lot to me. It's really at the point where it's not even about banking and job opportunities; the fact is that this has always been a dream school of mine. I don't know if I can afford NOT to attend.

Jul 3, 2017

Well good luck with the finaid then

Jul 3, 2017

Finance charges get paid first. Then you hit principal.

Jul 3, 2017

i can't speak to this specific loan, but with a lot of loans, the default is for payments to be applied to interest first, but if you actually call in and speak to them, you can have them apply payments (above the minimum) to principal instead

Jul 3, 2017

there should be ability to click and select to apply it directly to the principal

Jul 3, 2017

I'd like to hear responses to this too - especially considering student loan interest rates now are ~3.5%

Jul 3, 2017

Depends on what else you could do with the capital. Student loans are usually in the neighborhood of 8-9%. If all you're going to do with an extra 25K is park it in a bank account earning 1.3% or a CD earning 3-4%, then it's a no brainer to pay down the debt. Not paying the high interest is better than earning the low interest. Problem with student loans is its not really "financing" anything, just borrowed cost. It's not like that 25K is working capital for your personal self. It could disappear from your balance sheet and you'd still be making exactly your salary and your business bandwidth wouldn't decrease. It's possible that you could invest in equities and return higher than 9% over the life of the loan, but that's a risky proposition (especially these days) and you may end up losing - pretty high bar net of capital gains taxes just to break even. If the amount were 300K or something, now that's some real capital. Best to just make the payments and start a business, buy a multifamily apartment, etc. In your case, probably the most conservative thing would be to just pay it off in one shot.

Jul 3, 2017

Minimum payments for sure if you think you can make investments with a return greater than 5.68% (shouldn't be terribly difficult with just diverse stock purchases).

Btw, is that your FICO score, Equifax score, or neither?

Jul 3, 2017

That's Experian. I'd have to consider the returns on an after-tax basis, and methinks LT capital gains taxes will be back up to at least 20% in 10 years. So the S&P would have to return an average of 6.81% over the next 10 years for it to be worthwhile, right?

Jul 3, 2017
MJP338:

That's Experian. I'd have to consider the returns on an after-tax basis, and methinks LT capital gains taxes will be back up to at least 20% in 10 years. So the S&P would have to return an average of 6.81% over the next 10 years for it to be worthwhile, right?

Oh yeah, goddamn taxes... Yeah you're right, you'd need at least a 6.81%. You get some tax shielding if you put the maximum $5k into a roth IRA every year - not sure how the other IRA's work for tax purposes.

Jul 3, 2017

Pay them off before your income hits 70K.

Jul 3, 2017

(I assume you mean because of the deduction). I can't do that (2011 = 45k 2012 = 105k)

Jul 3, 2017

Wow that put me on tilt just reading it. What happened to personal responsibility? Why decide you're going to bring a child into this world when you're 6 figures in debt?

The parallels to the mortgage mess are striking - companies give out huge loans and people borrow all sorts of ridiculous sums on the assumption that we'll have 5% unemployment forever and that a college degree will guarantee them a job. Until it doesn't. Same with houses: the price of them will never go down so the loan is safe! Until prices fall.

Jul 3, 2017
GetOnTop:

Wow that put me on tilt just reading it. What happened to personal responsibility? Why decide you're going to bring a child into this world when you're 6 figures in debt?

The parallels to the mortgage mess are striking - companies give out huge loans and people borrow all sorts of ridiculous sums on the assumption that we'll have 5% unemployment forever and that a college degree will guarantee them a job. Until it doesn't. Same with houses: the price of them will never go down so the loan is safe! Until prices fall.

Agree to some extent. The story I pulled out is an example where the borrower is unwilling to take any accountability for her mistakes. There are, however, some genuinely disturbing stories where I sympathize a lot with the borrowers. When you have some time, read through some of the other stories on the site.

Jul 3, 2017

i still dont get why he took out the loan--he was getting free tuition. Just because you can be approved for something doesn't mean you should.

Jul 3, 2017
mk0000:

i still dont get why he took out the loan--he was getting free tuition. Just because you can be approved for something doesn't mean you should.

She claims it was her bipolar disorder that made her do it, and Sallie Mae enabled her. Seems like a cop-out to me.

Jul 3, 2017

Knowing this person exists just ruined my fucking day.

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Jul 3, 2017

I think she does take personal responsibility for it choices, she is just saying that she wasnt mature or responsible enough at that age to understand the impact that debt can have on her future. I think some responsibility has to rest with the lender. i mean seriously who lends $120,000 to a student with no income and no credit history.

Jul 3, 2017
MrBroadway:

I think she does take personal responsibility for it choices, she is just saying that she wasnt mature or responsible enough at that age to understand the impact that debt can have on her future. I think some responsibility has to rest with the lender. i mean seriously who lends $120,000 to a student with no income and no credit history.

I agree. It was definitely predatory lending. Nobody put a gun to her head to take the money, but they were counting on her immaturity and as expected, she took it and blew it on crap. But come on. The principal growing from 120K to 250K? That's insane.

Jul 3, 2017

How far up should we move the age of adulthood? I understand her general argument, but at some point we've got to become responsible for ourselves. We, as a society, have decided that the age of majority is 18 in the United States. Fortunately, the solution is simply- no federally subsidized loans, period. I can agree with that. Colleges lower prices or suffer lower matriculation rates.

Absorbed in the sacrament of education, many have failed to perform the proper calculus as to the value of education. There is a price at which education is simply not worth it; and, what we are seeing is more and more people hitting the threshold of the return on investment becoming negative. The question is how obvious is the math. A rational 20 year-old who bothered to do some back-of-the-envelope math could figure that $120,000 over four years far exceeds the return expected from a criminal justice degree, I would think.

As for bankruptcy, I don't know. I'm extremely reluctant to support bankruptcy as a means to retire education loans. While I can feel for this lady, she is not really a victim. She got to eat out, satisfy material desires, and live the life on campus. Where exactly is the suffering? There are consequences for profligacy, but that hardly makes someone a victim. Now, I don't like this federally subsidized mess, but I am trying to think what happens next should this policy of bankruptcy be enlarged. In the past, mass bankruptcy on education debt was not observed, but one could argue the social constraints, stigmas, and taboos contributed to stemming it- which do not exist in similar strength today.

She sounds quite eager to declare bankruptcy, when she technically isn't bankrupt. She lives under difficult circumstances, true, but it is not like she has no job, no assets, and no income. The potential for abuse is obvious. If the mass delinquency observed on mortgages in the past 5 years is any indication of the expected behavior of student loan debtors, I would be very concerned if I were Sallie Mae and student loans became dischargeable via bankruptcy.

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

How far up should we move the age of adulthood? I understand her general argument, but at some point we've got to become responsible for ourselves. We, as a society, have decided that the age of majority is 18 in the United States. Fortunately, the solution is simply- no federally subsidized loans, period. I can agree with that. Colleges lower prices or suffer lower matriculation rates.

Absorbed in the sacrament of education, many have failed to perform the proper calculus as to the value of education. There is a price at which education is simply not worth it; and, what we are seeing is more and more people hitting the threshold of the return on investment becoming negative. The question is how obvious is the math. A rational 20 year-old who bothered to do some back-of-the-envelope math could figure that $120,000 over four years far exceeds the return expected from a criminal justice degree, I would think.

As for bankruptcy, I don't know. I'm extremely reluctant to support bankruptcy as a means to retire education loans. While I can feel for this lady, she is not really a victim. She got to eat out, satisfy material desires, and live the life on campus. Where exactly is the suffering? There are consequences for profligacy, but that hardly makes someone a victim. Now, I don't like this federally subsidized mess, but I am trying to think what happens next should this policy of bankruptcy be enlarged. In the past, mass bankruptcy on education debt was not observed, but one could argue the social constraints, stigmas, and taboos contributed to stemming it- which do not exist in similar strength today.

She sounds quite eager to declare bankruptcy, when she technically isn't bankrupt. She lives under difficult circumstances, true, but it is not like she has no job, no assets, and no income. The potential for abuse is obvious. If the mass delinquency observed on mortgages in the past 5 years is any indication of the expected behavior of student loan debtors, I would be very concerned if I were Sallie Mae and student loans became dischargeable via bankruptcy.

I think if student debt is allowed to be discharged, the total number of loans will go way down, which will drive tuition down, which is exactly what's needed. I'm all for it. Not that any of it affects me since there's nothing like this in Canada. The best universities charge 5K a year on tuition, and student loans are interest free during studies.

Jul 3, 2017

Using student loans to live the high-life and then complaining about paying them off later? Yeah, you definitely deserve my sympathy...

Jul 3, 2017

manbearpig,

Her principal did not grow from 120,000 to $250,000- it's the interest, penalties, and fees that tack as additional debt. And I'm not sure I accept the use of the term 'predatory lending'. If two parties are rational adults and agree to terms, that's that. Just because one party is faster, more cunning, or more ruthless doesn't excuse the counterparty for playing out of their league.

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

manbearpig,

Her principal did not grow from 120,000 to $250,000- it's the interest, penalties, and fees that tack as additional debt. And I'm not sure I accept the use of the term 'predatory lending'. If two parties are rational adults and agree to terms, that's that. Just because one party is faster, more cunning, or more ruthless doesn't excuse the counterparty for playing out of their league.

Principal, by definition, is the amount on which interest accrues. Since she now owes 250K, she is accruing interest on 250K.

I think you're basically relying on the caveat emptor defense, but you have to admit that taking advantage of someone you know is completely ignorant about what's coming their way is unethical.

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

manbearpig,

Her principal did not grow from 120,000 to $250,000- it's the interest, penalties, and fees that tack as additional debt. And I'm not sure I accept the use of the term 'predatory lending'. If two parties are rational adults and agree to terms, that's that. Just because one party is faster, more cunning, or more ruthless doesn't excuse the counterparty for playing out of their league.

sallie mae preys on naive hopeful students...students go through the education system thinking that there is a guaranteed job after college because thats what they've been taught from elementary all the way through high school. so it wouldnt be a stretch to think that the loan could be paid after graduation........ and unfortunately the new legislation to lower interest rate will not apply to her.

Jul 3, 2017

Here's another one. In this case, I just genuinely feel bad for the guy.

I took every AP class available at my high school because I was told it would count towards college credit, and it did! I graduated a year early from college and I had a 50% scholarship and I was an RA so my housing needs were covered, but I still had to borrow about $60,000 which was for tuition only, I had a work study job to cover any personal expenses. Then I went to law school which cost about $150,000 leaving me at age 23 with a JD and $210,000 in debt earning $50,000 working for Legal Aid. Thank god my law school had a decent loan repayment assistance program for people working in public interest, but when I had to leave that job for another making only $10,000 more, the assistance disappeared. My friend owns a condo and my student loan payment is her mortgage payment, approximately $1500/month between AES, Citibank and Brazos. I have paid approximately $60,000 out of pocket in the last 3 years and still owe about $180,000. After the interest was added to my principal at the start of pre-payment, I haven't even gotten the principal down to what I actually borrowed. The loans are on 10-30 year repayment plans so at age 27, I'm looking at another 27 years of loan payments. I live with my parents to save on expenses which is embarrassing, but there's no way I can move out right now. I have never missed a payment, pay all my bills on time and have excellent credit, but I can't move forward with my life, be an adult, get married, have children, own a home, or live the american dream because the banks essentially own me until I'm 54. A financial planner in college told me that one should budget 30% of their income for living expenses, but right now 50% of my income goes to loans. I don't even think bankruptcy will help because I don't think student loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy proceedings, but I worked really hard to build my credit so I don't want to destroy it either. I am not asking for a handout, I've had a job since I was 14 years old...but if the government can spend billions of dollars bailing out banks, why not spend a few million bailing out the customers? The cost of a higher education is exorbitantly high in this country and if the government took measures to lower tuition or give aid on the front end, then maybe so many of us wouldn't be suffering at the back end.

Jul 3, 2017
manbearpig:

Here's another one. In this case, I just genuinely feel bad for the guy.

I took every AP class available at my high school because I was told it would count towards college credit, and it did! I graduated a year early from college and I had a 50% scholarship and I was an RA so my housing needs were covered, but I still had to borrow about $60,000 which was for tuition only, I had a work study job to cover any personal expenses. Then I went to law school which cost about $150,000 leaving me at age 23 with a JD and $210,000 in debt earning $50,000 working for Legal Aid. Thank god my law school had a decent loan repayment assistance program for people working in public interest, but when I had to leave that job for another making only $10,000 more, the assistance disappeared. My friend owns a condo and my student loan payment is her mortgage payment, approximately $1500/month between AES, Citibank and Brazos. I have paid approximately $60,000 out of pocket in the last 3 years and still owe about $180,000. After the interest was added to my principal at the start of pre-payment, I haven't even gotten the principal down to what I actually borrowed. The loans are on 10-30 year repayment plans so at age 27, I'm looking at another 27 years of loan payments. I live with my parents to save on expenses which is embarrassing, but there's no way I can move out right now. I have never missed a payment, pay all my bills on time and have excellent credit, but I can't move forward with my life, be an adult, get married, have children, own a home, or live the american dream because the banks essentially own me until I'm 54. A financial planner in college told me that one should budget 30% of their income for living expenses, but right now 50% of my income goes to loans. I don't even think bankruptcy will help because I don't think student loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy proceedings, but I worked really hard to build my credit so I don't want to destroy it either. I am not asking for a handout, I've had a job since I was 14 years old...but if the government can spend billions of dollars bailing out banks, why not spend a few million bailing out the customers? The cost of a higher education is exorbitantly high in this country and if the government took measures to lower tuition or give aid on the front end, then maybe so many of us wouldn't be suffering at the back end.

This is rough. Guy worked hard and just needed the money to actually attend his schools. He seems intelligent and wasn't using his loans to live the "high life"

Jul 3, 2017
manbearpig:

Here's another one. In this case, I just genuinely feel bad for the guy.

I took every AP class available at my high school because I was told it would count towards college credit, and it did! I graduated a year early from college and I had a 50% scholarship and I was an RA so my housing needs were covered, but I still had to borrow about $60,000 which was for tuition only, I had a work study job to cover any personal expenses. Then I went to law school which cost about $150,000 leaving me at age 23 with a JD and $210,000 in debt earning $50,000 working for Legal Aid. Thank god my law school had a decent loan repayment assistance program for people working in public interest, but when I had to leave that job for another making only $10,000 more, the assistance disappeared. My friend owns a condo and my student loan payment is her mortgage payment, approximately $1500/month between AES, Citibank and Brazos. I have paid approximately $60,000 out of pocket in the last 3 years and still owe about $180,000. After the interest was added to my principal at the start of pre-payment, I haven't even gotten the principal down to what I actually borrowed. The loans are on 10-30 year repayment plans so at age 27, I'm looking at another 27 years of loan payments. I live with my parents to save on expenses which is embarrassing, but there's no way I can move out right now. I have never missed a payment, pay all my bills on time and have excellent credit, but I can't move forward with my life, be an adult, get married, have children, own a home, or live the american dream because the banks essentially own me until I'm 54. A financial planner in college told me that one should budget 30% of their income for living expenses, but right now 50% of my income goes to loans. I don't even think bankruptcy will help because I don't think student loans can be forgiven in bankruptcy proceedings, but I worked really hard to build my credit so I don't want to destroy it either. I am not asking for a handout, I've had a job since I was 14 years old...but if the government can spend billions of dollars bailing out banks, why not spend a few million bailing out the customers? The cost of a higher education is exorbitantly high in this country and if the government took measures to lower tuition or give aid on the front end, then maybe so many of us wouldn't be suffering at the back end.

Two years ago talked a relative of mine out of going to law school because of the cost/payout discrepancy. If I could see it before I was 20, then I think this guy should have seen it- especially since he had already been down that path. Did he ask at the end of 4 years of college, how am I going to pay down $60,000 in debt based on my current skills? Many people in these binds use the "the government did one wrong, why not another?". First, it was the deposit banks, then the investment banks, then GM/Chrysler- now it's the students. Here's an idea- no bailout. Not for banks, not for student- no one. If I cannot tell you how to live your life, then you can't have my money. More importantly, I don't want to tell you how to live you life and I don't want to give you my money.

Jul 3, 2017

It's hard to have sympathy for stupid people. But I appreciate your posting this, MBP. It reinforces my decision to put my boys on a ship for a year after high school so they qualify for their captain's license at the end of it. If they want to go to college after that, fine. But at least they'll have a real trade to fall back on.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

Man after reading some of those stories, I'm going to call my parents right now and say thank you for helping pay for college. I can't imagine being in some of those situations. Sounds terrible.

On the other hand, some of those people are just plain stupid and it's hard to feel bad for them as they put themselves into that situation...

Jul 3, 2017

What exactly is wrong with the first person? She didn't understand interest? I can't really believe that. I understood the idea of compound interest around 2nd grade.

And how exactly do you end up taking out 120k for a criminal justice degree? You should go to a state school for that, maybe even start at a community college.

Then getting married/divorced and having a kid...it all just speaks to poor judgement. I cannot work up too much sympathy for this person. She made really, really bad decisions (while an adult) and has to pay for it.

The second guy is a more sympathetic case. But he knew what he was getting into. Law school is known to be a poor investment. I wish him luck getting a public sector so he can qualify for loan forgiveness.

Jul 3, 2017

It wasn't really 'known' until ~2005 or so that law school was shit.

Sounded like he could be fine if he stayed public interest. Fuck him, zero sympathy.

Jul 3, 2017

Wow, I don't even know what to say about this guy. This one is a must read...

p.s. the bold part is just painfully ironic.

I went into college knowing it was going to be very expensive. I knew that if I wanted to make it happen, I would have to go BIG. I decided to gut-rehab two historic homes. The plan was to fix them up, live in one with my roommates and rent out the other, and then sell them after I graduated. I worked 60+ hours a week on the houses while going to school for 6 years. It was the hardest thing I ever did, but I was successful.

Unfortunately, when I graduated, America was officially in a recession and the housing bubble had popped. My beautifully renovated houses were worth less than we put into them. My parents, who financed the homes, were forced to foreclose on the houses and file for bankruptcy.

I currently have about $100,000 in federal loans and $200,000 in Sallie Mae loans. Even if I could find a full-time job in my field, I will not be able to afford the minimum monthly payments.

In one year from now I will no longer be eligible for forbearance. I have realized that even if I am able to scrape by and pay the payments, I will have to live a life of poverty. I will never be able to buy a car or a home or even have children. I just simply will not be able to afford it. This is not based on exaggeration or lack of research... remember I went to college! I did the math. I will never live a normal life.

I could have skipped college and become a gas station attendant instead and over the course of my life been in a better financial situation then I am now.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

I feel the tiniest bit of sympathy for the girl in the OP because she ended up being bipolar and because she has a child that has to live with the consequences of her stupidity. That being said, the fact that she blames manic episodes for all of her spending is ridiculous. Talk about not taking responsibility for herself.

First of all, she said she got anxiety about the fact that she was working part-time and going to school full-time? Seriously? Thousands upon thousands of people do that every year and they turn out just fine.

Why the fuck was she taking out a $30K loan when tuition was $4K? It took her 11 YEARS to finish college with a degree in CRIMINAL JUSTICE. These are just stupid, stupid decisions.

She says she has a lawyer fighting for her - where's she getting the money to pay that lawyer?

I'm sorry, but I really don't think it takes much common sense to understand the implications of taking out loans that are that big. Anyone intelligent enough to be going to college should understand it.

As for our law school friend, a little more sympathy for him because he seemed like he was trying to do the right thing. That being said, his first mistake was going to a college that he couldn't reasonably afford. He had an RA gig, work-study, 50% tuition, graduated in 3 years, and still racked up $60K in debt? That's ridiculous.

He's 27, which means that law school wasn't as vilified when he enrolled. So a little sympathy there, but again he should have chosen a cheaper law school. Why would he leave his loan repayment gig for another job without assistance? He was probably "saving" more than $10K/year by being on loan forgiveness.

His loan payment is $1,500/month, but he makes at least $60K/year. He's living with his parents. He should have a ton of money to throw at his loans. It's ridiculous to say that he can't move forward with his life until he's 54. Our President and his wife certainly moved on with theirs, and I'd say they turned out OK.

At least this guy seems like he's trying. Retail girl just wants handouts.

As for #3... I don't even know where to start. Just a dumbass who didn't think about the implications of his actions. How does he have $300K in loans when his parents financed the homes? He probably could have put himself in less debt by not working on those houses and graduating in 4 years. Just someone that bit off more than they could chew and now wants handouts.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

Zero sympathy for the girl in the OP. She had FREE TUITION, then took out loans to party, eat out, buy clothes, and have a kid. All for a criminal justice degree. I mean seriously she managed to blow 120K while in school. Sorry honey your SOL.

I feel sorry for the kids who paid back their loans and worked hard in school. While this girl will in the end get some kind of relief when congress comes up with a way to "fix" the student loan mess.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017

Wow, this one takes the cake....

Dear People:

As I approach my 60th birthday, I find myself in a financial position that I never would have dreamed possible in the United States of America. Here are the troubling statistics that have resulted from working for over 40 years of my life. I am a teacher and am married to a wife who is part owner of a small CPA firm in southeastern Tulare County, California.

Fifteen years ago, we were able to afford for my wife to finish her Bachelor of Arts in Business Administration. She completed her CPA certification twelve years ago. At that time, we were optimistic that her salary would eclipse mine and that we would be able to afford to send our two children to a four-year university. Her salary has never caught up to mine and remains about $20,000.00 less. In spite of our children ranking 6th (my son) and 4th (my daughter) in their high school classes, we were not eligible for financial aid because of our income. That was then, this is now.

Our total net worth is -$10,000.00

Our home is worth $180,000.00 dollars and we owe $178,400.00.

We have three outstanding student loans:

Loan 1: $66,967.94

Loan 2: $88,479.18

Loan 3: $15, 178.21

Fortunately (or not), out children have taken out loans for their post baccalaureate degrees.

My son (a struggling attorney) owes $198,395.27 for law school

My daughter (a teacher) owes $35, 938.09 for her credential work.

If you total all of our education debt, my family owes $404,958.69 for student loans. This is our American Dream (night mare). Most of our loans are through Sallie Mae

Sincerely,

Michael C. Wait

Best Response
Jul 3, 2017

Whats up with the occupystudentdebt website? It looks like a 5th grader in the 90's created the website.

You would think with all the free time and worthless graphic design degrees these guys used $200K in loans for, they would be able to create a better website...

    • 4
Jul 3, 2017
Nobama88:

Whats up with the occupystudentdebt website? It looks like a 5th grader in the 90's created the website.

You would think with all the free time and worthless graphic design degrees these guys used $200K in loans for, they would be able to create a better website...

LOL SB!

Jul 3, 2017
Nobama88:

Whats up with the occupystudentdebt website? It looks like a 5th grader in the 90's created the website.

You would think with all the free time and worthless graphic design degrees these guys used $200K in loans for, they would be able to create a better website...

This is priceless. Sounds like class warfare. I'd silver banana you, but I don't know where the SB button went... Anyone know?

It is better to be vaguely right than exactly wrong - JMK

Jul 3, 2017

I mean.. it's worth considering that student loans are being driven by the same forces as mortgages were up to '07. Student Loan ABS are generally federally insured at rates below their actuarial risk premium - basically an off-balance sheet government subsidy. They are also ubiquitous, and pretty easy to get.

The most significant difference I can think of between MBS and SLABS is the nature of the underlying "secured asset," i.e. a house, vs a person's future earnings for as long as it takes to repay the loan. As someone who has worked with one or two shaky subprime asset class securitizations, SLABS truly scare me. Once these loans are sold into the deal, principal adjustments/other restructuring accommodations become dramatically more difficult. God forbid the senior note-holders realize a loss.

The sooner these things become somehow discharged in bankruptcy, the better. In every other case (e.g. MBS) I would say "too bad - you signed the papers." But I've met people all over the place who are still saddled with this shit. I actually met a bulge bank IBD MD who's still paying off his MBA debt. WTF?

Jul 3, 2017
Sandhurst:

I mean.. it's worth considering that student loans are being driven by the same forces as mortgages were up to '07. Student Loan ABS are generally federally insured at rates below their actuarial risk premium - basically an off-balance sheet government subsidy. They are also ubiquitous, and pretty easy to get.

The most significant difference I can think of between MBS and SLABS is the nature of the underlying "secured asset," i.e. a house, vs a person's future earnings for as long as it takes to repay the loan. As someone who has worked with one or two shaky subprime asset class securitizations, SLABS truly scare me. Once these loans are sold into the deal, principal adjustments/other restructuring accommodations become dramatically more difficult. God forbid the senior note-holders realize a loss.

The sooner these things become somehow discharged in bankruptcy, the better. In every other case (e.g. MBS) I would say "too bad - you signed the papers." But I've met people all over the place who are still saddled with this shit. I actually met a bulge bank IBD MD who's still paying off his MBA debt. WTF?

I've been waiting to hear a shitstorm about SLABS since I heard about the details a year or two ago. Pretty messed up.

Jul 3, 2017

lol, listen to this genius!

Here goes again... I am running on empty. Maybe Obama could bail us out... Honestly, everyone else gets bailed out. Especially the rich. I'm just thinking... hmm, why not tax all Americans. What are there? 306,000,000 people in this country? Maybe $2/year or even .25 a month... very minimal. Do the math. No one would really miss it. We'd be out of debt then and we could contribute to our economy and live like "normal" Americans . More jobs would open from us spending in our economy...plus maybe we could stop using other countries to produce our goods, too. What is so wrong with that? I don't think its too much to ask and I don't think it is impossible. Why is this idea so rejected? My son will never go to college if things remain the same... not without a full scholarship anyway.

p.s. I don't have a picture of my debt... but I owe $160,000 mainly b/c of interest. I took out $75,000 from 2001-2007.

Jul 3, 2017
manbearpig:

lol, listen to this genius!

Here goes again... I am running on empty. Maybe Obama could bail us out... Honestly, everyone else gets bailed out. Especially the rich. I'm just thinking... hmm, why not tax all Americans. What are there? 306,000,000 people in this country? Maybe $2/year or even .25 a month... very minimal. Do the math. No one would really miss it. We'd be out of debt then and we could contribute to our economy and live like "normal" Americans . More jobs would open from us spending in our economy...plus maybe we could stop using other countries to produce our goods, too. What is so wrong with that? I don't think its too much to ask and I don't think it is impossible. Why is this idea so rejected? My son will never go to college if things remain the same... not without a full scholarship anyway.

p.s. I don't have a picture of my debt... but I owe $160,000 mainly b/c of interest. I took out $75,000 from 2001-2007.

Goes to school for 6 years (through the best 6 economic years in a long time), supposedly takes out $75K in loans but seems to double the loan amount due to interest?

These people are fucking brilliant. The writing is so eloquent. College educated at its finest. So glad we get to call these people 'college educated Americans'. So much hope.

Jul 3, 2017

Why go to a school you cannot afford? Go to community college for 2 years, transfer to state school, stay out of debt.

Jul 3, 2017

SECFinance,

As a side note, there really isn't such a thing as a 'cheaper law school'. Law school costs are surprisingly uni-modal- it's astounding really. From Tier 1 through Tier 4, one can easily expect to pay $40,000 a year in costs, depending on location. For example, a Tier 3/4 school, Albany Law School, has a cost $39,000 for tuition only. According to their website, the average graduate had $120,722 of debt.This is part of the reason I talked my relative out of it. Unless you graduate at the top of a T-14 (preferably top five) law school, you have an uphill battle for employment and paying your loans.

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

SECFinance,

As a side note, there really isn't such a thing as a 'cheaper law school'. Law school costs are surprisingly uni-modal- it's astounding really. From Tier 1 through Tier 4, one can easily expect to pay $40,000 a year in costs, depending on location. For example, a Tier 3/4 school, Albany Law School, has a cost $39,000 for tuition only. According to their website, the average graduate had $120,722 of debt.This is part of the reason I talked my relative out of it. Unless you graduate at the top of a T-14 (preferably top five) law school, you have an uphill battle for employment and paying your loans.

I know that that person's debt load isn't too bad for law school, but let's face it - i'm sure they didn't go to the cheapest one they could have gone to, and I'm sure that they didn't go to a very good one.

Jul 3, 2017

I should print t-shirts that read: "I'm short your student loan" in honor of Mr. Zuckerman. Just looked at some student loan ABS on Bloomberg- oh my. If I can find the appropriate CDS contracts, I'll make out like Paulson.

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

I should print t-shirts that read: "I'm short your student loan" in honor of Mr. Zuckerman. Just looked at some student loan ABS on Bloomberg- oh my. If I can find the appropriate CDS contracts, I'll make out like Paulson.

I don't think you'll find any on the vast majority of SLABS (i.e. gov't insured ones). Not sure of the state of the CDS market on Private Label SLABS - probably depends on deal size.

Cola Coca:

Going forward, student loans should have stricter standards and smaller caps and also be dischargeable.

The loans are just too easy to get, and a loan which is not dischargeable is simply broken.

I agree that a move towards some extent of discharg-ability is necessary (and probably likely).

But that said, there is a strong rationale for its present state. Mortgages are secured with the asset they finance, same with auto loans. In a sense, student loans are the same - they are secured with the future cash flows they finance, namely (in theory) increased earnings resulting from the financed higher education degree. Mortgages are personally dischargable because in bankruptcy, the lender receives the underlying asset - Sallie Mae can't just foreclose on you and sell your organs or whatever. So, to avoid the moral hazard of a former student declaring bankruptcy (and essentially receiving a free education), the loans are structured as they are.

Not to say that I agree that this is definitively "right" or otherwise appropriate. But there is a logic to it, and a food reform should take the lenders' position into consideration too. Maybe student loans should have a structured payment schedule, or even come straight out of the borrower's paychecks. E.g. until principal + interest are repaid, debtor's paychecks will be garnished at a maximum of 20% of each paycheck payment for a maximum of 10 years. Not necessarily the right way, but there needs to be some framework that allows student loans to tackle the moral hazard problem, but not be too inhumane.

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

I should print t-shirts that read: "I'm short your student loan" in honor of Mr. Zuckerman. Just looked at some student loan ABS on Bloomberg- oh my. If I can find the appropriate CDS contracts, I'll make out like Paulson.

Do universities really have the gall to invest in SLABS? If they did, that means not only would they be making money off of tuitions and fees on students, they would also be making money on Wall Street through investing in their securitized debts--i.e. they'd be getting paid 2x's for every student. In other words, this would give universities strong incentives to increase their tuitions in order to build up their endowments, all at the expense of putting our children in more and more debt. Our system couldn't be this corrupt and sickening could it?

Jul 3, 2017
rls:

I should print t-shirts that read: "I'm short your student loan" in honor of Mr. Zuckerman. Just looked at some student loan ABS on Bloomberg- oh my. If I can find the appropriate CDS contracts, I'll make out like Paulson.

I laughed pretty hard at this one, and I owe 60k in student loans so it's ok.

Jul 3, 2017

Going forward, student loans should have stricter standards and smaller caps and also be dischargeable.

The loans are just too easy to get, and a loan which is not dischargeable is simply broken.

Jul 3, 2017

Wow. That is all.

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee

WSO is not your personal search function.

Jul 3, 2017

"My friend owns a condo and my student loan payment is her mortgage payment, approximately $1500/month between AES, Citibank and Brazos."

Thats what you get for borrowing from a company called Brazos. "OMG, I feel like Brazos is taking me to the bang bus with these student loan payments!"

lololololol brazos.

Ok I'm done.

Jul 3, 2017

I honestly wanna know what colleges these guys are taking out loans for.

Jul 3, 2017

This is basically a sequel to the housing bubble, only this time it will end much worse.

Artificially low lending rates that don't reflect underlying risk :: check
Widely accepted truth that having more people in college (like owning houses) is better :: check
Well-connected groups on both sides of the aisle who can lobby to keep the party going :: check

Now add into the stew: recalcitrant higher ed establishment, free online education rumbling on the horizon, and austerity looming.

Many of these universities are hilariously over-built and are often the largest employer in their respective cities. I give it about three more years to reach a Wagnerian climax before the bitch implodes.

The years 2008 to 2015 will be remembered as a giant macroeconomic bowel movement. I can hear the economy straining as a I type.

    • 1
Jul 3, 2017
Short Bus All-Star:

The years 2008 to 2015 will be remembered as a giant macroeconomic bowel movement. I can hear the economy straining as a I type.

f*cking gold

Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art - Andy Warhol

Jul 3, 2017

How do we make money off this...

We all know it is going to implode.

Jul 3, 2017
Nobama88:

How do we make money off this...

We all know it is going to implode.

SWHC & ATK

Jul 3, 2017
Nobama88:

How do we make money off this...

We all know it is going to implode.

ha ha...I was thinking the same thing.

These stories are prime examples for why the government should NOT subsidize higher education to the extent it currently does. For the most part these people would have been better off working in some industry not requiring a degree.

On another ironic note, if these people ever get their credit checked for a job I have a feeling this type of irresponsibility could easily result in an offer getting rescinded.

Jul 3, 2017

And this is why high schools should be required to teach personal finance.

Jul 3, 2017

Cant wait till my tax dollars to go baling guys like THIS guy out:

THIS GUY:

My path lead me first to the recent history of the 20th century and the Cold War particularly which required a better understanding of Russian history than i had ever received. When viewed objectively, without the prejudices of our childhood i was shocked to discover that the leaders of the Russian Revolution, Lenin and Trotsky, were in fact the original champions of the 99%, seeking to establish a truly democratic world order and that the horrors committed in the name of Communism in the 20th century only came to pass after the reactionary coup of Stalin when the Soviet Union became "communist" in name only.

Jul 3, 2017

Only way loans should be forgiven is if a student did well in school and due to some health reason they were impaired and not able to work.

Jul 3, 2017

Why not give the option? Give students the option to take either governement insured loans that are not forgiveable, or loans that are eligiable for bankruptcy (obviously significantly less, higher rates, and perhaps requiring cosigners/collateral). Even if it weren't an option for some students, it would be a great way to illustrate the difference between the two to teach, as well as allow smarter students in tricky situations to make smart decisions.

Capitalism is freedom.

Jul 3, 2017

If I can do it all over again,

I'd go into 100K debt to attend a prestigious target undergrad instead of going to a non-target public for about 10K.
I would've saved money in the long run by not having to go to for a MS or MBA degree.

Born in hell, forged from suffering, hardened by pain.

Jul 3, 2017

Don't feel sorry in the slightest for any of the people in cases mentioned so far, sorry.

At the end of the day, many people live paycheck to paycheck, struggle to make ends meet and have bleak outlooks. Many of these people haven't been to college themselves, their kids will fail in school, their kids won't go to college, and the cycle will continue on with exceptions few and far between. Many people live like this without owning a car, a house, a portfolio and so on. Just because you've been to college, your not exempt.

Cry me a river.

Jul 3, 2017

I feel bad for the guy that worked on those two houses. He took what, at the time, would've seemed like a smart move by just about anyone and busted his ass. The market crashed and he got fucked. THAT is a shitty situation.

Jul 3, 2017

How about University Endowments have to insure a portion of the loans made? That'll give them a bit of skin in the game and maybe encourage cheaper tuition costs. Also does anybody understand why people go to mediocre private schools for 30-50k a year, when there are better public schools for 12-18k a year? I lived on about 15k a year or so, and that included all my tuition, books, and everything. While I feel bad for the situations of some of these people, I know tons of people who took out student loans to buy brand new cars they didn't need, spend way more on alcohol/drugs than they needed to, buy brand new thousand dollar tv's that they didn't need, go to spring break every year, and who knows what other shit they didn't need. Meanwhile I worked hard and graduated with only taking out less than 14k in principal for a worthwhile degree.

Jul 3, 2017

this will bring the financial system(along with other factors) to its knees in the coming years

Jul 3, 2017

The arguments in favor of mortgaging your life for an education just keep melting away:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/education/harvar...

Jul 3, 2017

having a bipolar personality disorder is actually characterized by excessive spending. It is literally a symptom of the disorder. Granted she should have known better, but for those of you who know people with mental disorders you know just how irrational they can act and they cannot help it. It is really quite sad. There should have been some sort of check to see what her situation was before she was approved for the loans. But what are you gonna do? She is going to die paying off that debt and it is definitely a mixture of her own fault and fault within the system, but mostly her fault and she is going to (literally) pay for it.

Jul 3, 2017

Recent graduate here and I have $95K in outstanding student loans. Finance major in college, graduated honors, blah blah blah....I'm here to enlighten you monkies

Many people think that the rise in student loans and predatory lending is because of rising tuition. I hate to break it to you but it's vise versa. Simple supply/demand here people! The amount of seats in an American college is essentially finite but practically an unlimited amount of potential students can be approved for student loans (the predatory part), thus schools are free to raise tuition because there will ALWAYS be someone to fill that spot.

Clearly the US government won't at least partially bail out the students because the people who run this country are fucking retards (pardon the french) and could care less about anyone who is not a corporation so I'll be realistic on how to fix this:

  1. Forgive all capitalized interest and have none accrue during time in school (the Canada way i think or is that socialism?)
  2. All new and outstanding interest rates should be set at around 4%. There is no reason for some public rates to be at 6.8% or above. They say it's because there is no collateral but guess what? There is, in the form of future wages, taxes, and subisides. Complete BS
  3. Only qualified potential students (merit based?) should receive government loans. Decreasing demand, decreases tuition due to free market competition.

By the way, the collections agency for SLMA is a subsidiary (General Revenue Corp) of SLMA itself. So don't you think SLMA has incentive for students to default so they can tack on fees upon fees? Get rid of this to.

Jul 3, 2017
ChuckyFinster:

Recent graduate here and I have $95K in outstanding student loans. Finance major in college, graduated honors, blah blah blah....I'm here to enlighten you monkies

Many people think that the rise in student loans and predatory lending is because of rising tuition. I hate to break it to you but it's vise versa. Simple supply/demand here people! The amount of seats in an American college is essentially finite but practically an unlimited amount of potential students can be approved for student loans (the predatory part), thus schools are free to raise tuition because there will ALWAYS be someone to fill that spot.

Clearly the US government won't at least partially bail out the students because the people who run this country are fucking retards (pardon the french) and could care less about anyone who is not a corporation so I'll be realistic on how to fix this:

  1. Forgive all capitalized interest and have none accrue during time in school (the Canada way i think or is that socialism?)
  2. All new and outstanding interest rates should be set at around 4%. There is no reason for some public rates to be at 6.8% or above. They say it's because there is no collateral but guess what? There is, in the form of future wages, taxes, and subisides. Complete BS
  3. Only qualified potential students (merit based?) should receive government loans. Decreasing demand, decreases tuition due to free market competition.

By the way, the collections agency for SLMA is a subsidiary (General Revenue Corp) of SLMA itself. So don't you think SLMA has incentive for students to default so they can tack on fees upon fees? Get rid of this to.

No, I agree completely. Those are all decent points. The government has to get out of the student loan business. The problem, especially with number 3, is that the public believes education is a God given right. This is the exact road our government took in regards to housing - "it is a God given right that every American owns a new home". We paid for the housing bubble and we will have to pay for the student loan bubble. Every one is taking notice and knows it is coming but no one wants to do shit about it.

Could you imagine Obama coming out and saying that the govt will be getting out of the loan business and now students will be forced to pay for it on their own (making schools such as the for profit diploma mills shut down and qualified universities lower tuition) or qualify for a loan through normal routes? It would be a cold day in hell when that happens; for profit diploma mills would be out of business and the respectable universities would have to decrease tuition substantially in order to fill demand and your art majors would be non existent.

Jul 3, 2017
ChuckyFinster:

1. Forgive all capitalized interest and have none accrue during time in school (the Canada way i think or is that socialism?)

Everything about the US student loan systems screams mortgage crisis but at a slower rate (meaning that individual loans aren't quite as big as mortgages). Everyone is told to get an education, loans are easy to get, rising tuition leading to larger loans...bound to fall apart, better start buying CDSs on student loans or possibly private lenders (not sure if they exist since they don't in Canada).

Shout out to the Canada approach. Up here, universities are also subsidized and all the good ones are public. I think my whole undergraduate education cost $20,000 before scholarships and I paid off all my student loans with the money I made from a junior year SA role in IB.

Jul 3, 2017

Or you could work through undergrad, go to a cheaper school and have maybe 30K in debt. Dude, I have two masters and don't even have that level of debt. What were you thinking?

Jul 3, 2017

I mean I am not 100% opposed to no capitalized interest and a lower interest rate, but #3 isn't going to happen.

Student loans are absolutely great. They allow people who otherwise couldn't afford college the chance to go. The problem is people think free money and go wherever they want. This pushes up prices for in demand schools. But that is a persons choice. You can take less than the max and go to a state school or smaller school.

Things to reduce your student loans.

1) Community college and transfer in
2) State University
3) Work during school
4) Add another year and work, thereby spreading out the costs
5) Live at home and commute
6) Get scholarships, student aid, grants

http://www.suny.edu/student/paying_tuition.cfm
SUNY Tuition is ~20K for a 4 year degree. Commute from home and work and you will be debt free.

http://admissions.rutgers.edu/costs/tuitionandfees...
Rutgers tuition - ~50K for a 4 year degree. Commute from home and work and you maybe have 20K in debt. This can be reduced through implementation of a few of the above techniques

http://www.registrar.illinois.edu/financial/tuitio...
University of Illinois Tution - ~40K for a 4 year degree. Commute and work and you maybe have 10K in debt.

See, there are countless options and plenty of affordable ways to do it. 20K in debt for a 4 year degree is a small price to pay for the opportunities you get. People who go 100K in debt CHOOSE to do so.

Freedom of choice, freedom of responsibility.

Jul 3, 2017

Thanks Nobama...

I wasn't saying that the gov't should get out of the SL buisness. Just limit it intelligently (key word here). It think it's about time Americans start understanding we're not the greatest nation on earth in any way. The economic "recovery" will never fully come to fruition with SL debt piled on top of future generations. I think this it is a relatively easy fix but then again it is the US government......

Jul 3, 2017

Kind of ironic a website populated with so many "non-target" kids struggling to make it is so full of "can't afford it? tough shit" attitudes.

    • 5
Jul 3, 2017
freemarketeer:

Kind of ironic a website populated with so many "non-target" kids struggling to make it is so full of "can't afford it? tough shit" attitudes.

Mmmm... how the hell is that even close to ironic?

Jul 3, 2017
freemarketeer:

Kind of ironic a website populated with so many "non-target" kids struggling to make it is so full of "can't afford it? tough shit" attitudes.

How is it ironic?