Ugrad Vs. Grad - Prestige

Husky32's picture
Rank: Gorilla | banana points 659

What do you feel is more prestigious, a top undergrad with a second tier graduate school or a second tier undergrad with a top tier grad school? I've noticed this recently with people I've spoken to. Guys going from HYP undergrad to state school for law degrees and state school kids getting a harvard MBA for example.

The essence of the question is really, whether you feel as if undergrad name > grad name in terms of prestige or grad name > undergrad name.

I have my own opinion, but hearing others thoughts might help a few of the hs/college kids on this forum out as I was one of the ones who bought into the whole college confidential bs of going to a much lower ranked cheaper undergrad and then going to a ivy grad school.

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Comments (54)

Aug 11, 2012

Going from great undergrad to shit grad implies regression and you either fucked up or you better have a good reason to go to the school that you did. Going from crap undergrad to great grad implies progression and shows growth.

Aug 11, 2012

Grad school always trumps ugrad.

Aug 11, 2012

Graduate school absolutely trumps undergraduate any day of the week. Absolutely agree with the regression satement

Aug 11, 2012

^I feel like this only applies with professional schools. Doesn't a Yale BA in economics trump a Ohio State BA in economics + Yale MA in Economics? -> both in terms of prestige and in terms of recruiting for prestige based jobs like banking/consulting/pe

Aug 11, 2012
Husky32:

^I feel like this only applies with professional schools. Doesn't a Yale BA in economics trump a Ohio State BA in economics + Yale MA in Economics? -> both in terms of prestige and in terms of recruiting for prestige based jobs like banking/consulting/pe

Who gets a BA in Economics; what IS/LM graphs too hard you can't get a BS. Also an MA in economics is equally as useless. Back on topic, weak undergrad is understandable if you got a boat load of scholarship or they were known for a specific major which you originally wanted to pursue.

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Aug 11, 2012
bearing:
Husky32:

^I feel like this only applies with professional schools. Doesn't a Yale BA in economics trump a Ohio State BA in economics + Yale MA in Economics? -> both in terms of prestige and in terms of recruiting for prestige based jobs like banking/consulting/pe

Who gets a BA in Economics; what IS/LM graphs too hard you can't get a BS. Also an MA in economics is equally as useless. Back on topic, weak undergrad is understandable if you got a boat load of scholarship or they were known for a specific major which you originally wanted to pursue.

Okay so would a BS in Economics Ohio st. -> MS in Economics at Yale still be less prestigious than say a BS in Economics Yale -> MS in Economics at Ohio st? Assuming that no scholarships/recruitment for athletics are involved

Best Response
Aug 11, 2012
bearing:

Who gets a BA in Economics; what IS/LM graphs too hard you can't get a BS. Also an MA in economics is equally as useless.

The fact that you struggle to string a sentence together completely discredits your baseless argument.

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Aug 11, 2012
Macro Arbitrage:
bearing:

Who gets a BA in Economics; what IS/LM graphs too hard you can't get a BS. Also an MA in economics is equally as useless.

The fact that you struggle to string a sentence together completely discredits your baseless argument.

Oh, did I hurt your feelings. Didn't know Canadians were so uptight over grammar and economics degrees.

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Aug 15, 2012

You do know that the majority of econ programs across the country ONLY offer a BA in econ, right? At the undergrad level, if there is no option between a BA or a BS in econ, there's essentially no difference. However most grad programs offer both an MA and an MS.

"Successful investing is anticipating the anticipations of others" - John Maynard Keynes
University at Buffalo, The State University of New York
Economics & International Trade

Aug 11, 2012
Husky32:

^I feel like this only applies with professional schools. Doesn't a Yale BA in economics trump a Ohio State BA in economics + Yale MA in Economics? -> both in terms of prestige and in terms of recruiting for prestige based jobs like banking/consulting/pe

You have no idea what you are talking about. Yale does not have an MA in Economics and neither to any of the other Ivy league schools. It has a Masters in "International and Development Economics" but they run their own show and are not affiliated with the Yale economics department.NYU, BU, Duke and U of M- Ann Arbor would have been better examples.

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Aug 11, 2012

Going to Yale grad from ohio undergrad is more prestigious.

Aug 11, 2012

Grad prestige trumps undergrad, especially in law and business, where pedigree can open a lot of doors. Someone who went to harvard ug and then a non-top 15 program badly fucked up somewhere along the way. Either he had no business getting into harvard in the first place or lost his motivation once he got there. In contrast, a guy who did ohio state undergrad and then HBS means that the guy was a late bloomer who excelled from college onwards, displayed achievement and leadership, and is going to be very successful in the future.

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Aug 11, 2012
Brady4MVP:

Grad prestige trumps undergrad, especially in law and business, where pedigree can open a lot of doors. Someone who went to harvard ug and then a non-top 15 program badly fucked up somewhere along the way. Either he had no business getting into harvard in the first place or lost his motivation once he got there. In contrast, a guy who did ohio state undergrad and then HBS means that the guy was a late bloomer who excelled from college onwards, displayed achievement and leadership, and is going to be very successful in the future.

True but there is also a curve in place at HYP. Not everyone at those schools can get over a 3.0 given the insane amount of competition, and so the HYP kid with a 2.5 gpa might get a 3.7+ in econ/business at your local state school. Which is why a lot of firms (a few that I can definitely confirm) would give the ivy leaguer with no gpa listed on the resume the interview and deny the state school kid with a borderline gpa (3.5-3.7 range). Since a 3.5 GPA at state school with a great gre can get into a prestigious grad school, whereas no grad schools will take a 2.5 gpa kid no matter where their from, it leads me to believe that the undergraduate degree is typically held in higher regard by employers who also favor taking a look at the SAT (all banks/consulting firms).

I'm playing devils advocate here so rip apart this argument (that I hear often) if you'd like.

    • 1
Aug 11, 2012
Husky32:
Brady4MVP:

Grad prestige trumps undergrad, especially in law and business, where pedigree can open a lot of doors. Someone who went to harvard ug and then a non-top 15 program badly fucked up somewhere along the way. Either he had no business getting into harvard in the first place or lost his motivation once he got there. In contrast, a guy who did ohio state undergrad and then HBS means that the guy was a late bloomer who excelled from college onwards, displayed achievement and leadership, and is going to be very successful in the future.

True but there is also a curve in place at HYP. Not everyone at those schools can get over a 3.0 given the insane amount of competition, and so the HYP kid with a 2.5 gpa might get a 3.7+ in econ/business at your local state school. Which is why a lot of firms (a few that I can definitely confirm) would give the ivy leaguer with no gpa listed on the resume the interview and deny the state school kid with a borderline gpa (3.5-3.7 range). Since a 3.5 GPA at state school with a great gre can get into a prestigious grad school, whereas no grad schools will take a 2.5 gpa kid no matter where their from, it leads me to believe that the undergraduate degree is typically held in higher regard by employers who also favor taking a look at the SAT (all banks/consulting firms).

I'm playing devils advocate here so rip apart this argument (that I hear often) if you'd like.

Um, it's very hard to get below a 3.0 at the ivies unless you did like cornell engineering. Especially at HYP, there's massive grade inflation, and there really is no reason you shouldn't get 3.5+ if you do even a modicum of work.

No reputable finance or consulting firm will interview a college student without a gpa listed. Once you've been out for a few years, you can leave it out and get interviews but not when you're still in school.

Aug 11, 2012
Husky32:

True but there is also a curve in place at HYP. Not everyone at those schools can get over a 3.0 given the insane amount of competition, and so the HYP kid with a 2.5 gpa might get a 3.7+ in econ/business at your local state school. Which is why a lot of firms (a few that I can definitely confirm) would give the ivy leaguer with no gpa listed on the resume the interview and deny the state school kid with a borderline gpa (3.5-3.7 range). Since a 3.5 GPA at state school with a great gre can get into a prestigious grad school, whereas no grad schools will take a 2.5 gpa kid no matter where their from, it leads me to believe that the undergraduate degree is typically held in higher regard.

I'm playing devils advocate here so rip apart this argument (that I hear often) if you'd like.

"Harvard was hardly alone. Still, its numbers were particularly staggering. More than 90 percent of the class of 2001 had earned grade-point averages of B-minus or higher. Half of all the grades given the year before were As or A-minuses; only six percent were C-pluses or lower. By way of comparison, in 1940 C-minus was the most common GPA at Harvard, and in 1955 just 15 percent of undergraduates had a GPA of B-plus or higher."
Source:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2005/0...

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Aug 11, 2012

The undergrads have more prestige. After all their parents are subsidizing our graduate tuition.

    • 1
Aug 11, 2012
IlliniProgrammer:

The undergrads have more prestige. After all their parents are subsidizing our graduate tuition.

not quite. P undergrads pay 50K full sticker for an education that costs 80K. so they are subsidizing 120K over four years. but the real subsidy comes from the income from their $10BB+ endowment, which comes from the alumni.

Aug 12, 2012
melvvvar:
IlliniProgrammer:

The undergrads have more prestige. After all their parents are subsidizing our graduate tuition.

not quite. P undergrads pay 50K full sticker for an education that costs 80K. so they are subsidizing 120K over four years. but the real subsidy comes from the income from their $10BB+ endowment, which comes from the alumni.

I continue to be impressed with your insights.

Aug 12, 2012
UFOinsider:
melvvvar:
IlliniProgrammer:

The undergrads have more prestige. After all their parents are subsidizing our graduate tuition.

not quite. P undergrads pay 50K full sticker for an education that costs 80K. so they are subsidizing 120K over four years. but the real subsidy comes from the income from their $10BB+ endowment, which comes from the alumni.

I continue to be impressed with your insights.

thanks, but i plan to go back to pure trolling pretty soon.

Aug 11, 2012

Hmm, similar dilemma...but the key is to compare the prestige of the programs, not the prestige of the schools.

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Aug 11, 2012

This seems like comparing apples to oranges. If someone is going for an associate job obviously the non-target->Wharton MBA is in a better spot than the Yale->Fordham MBA grad.

Though at the end of the day target->target grad = /endthread

Aug 11, 2012

Fuuuck. The very first comment was sufficient, Lewis.

/Thread

Aug 11, 2012

One thing about grad school: if you are referring to masters or PhD programs (especially PhDs), it is often less "prestigious" schools that have the best programs in specific subjects. Without in depth knowledge, one cannot easily compare the quality or selectivity of PhD programs.

Aug 12, 2012

Grad. Doesn't matter law or business school

"If Henry Ford had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." -Steve Jobs

Aug 12, 2012

Duke has a stronger finance network than Brown. Prestige is secondary to network strength.

I'm here to introduce you to truth at the expense of your illusions.

...and just like that, now you have more power over your own fate.

You're welcome.

Aug 12, 2012

If I go to dinner with people I'm not going to say "I have a masters in X from Ohio but I went to HYP undergrad."

Top masters is all you ever need to say and is thus more prestigious.

Aug 12, 2012

your all morons

it's elementary school as that sets the tone of the overall interview try interviewing a kid from Phillips Exeter Academy they are mini mark zukerbergs but with out add and a wife that looks like this:

Aug 12, 2012
blastoise:

your all morons

it's elementary school as that sets the tone of the overall interview try interviewing a kid from Phillips Exeter Academy they are mini mark zukerbergs but with out add and a wife that looks like this:

What's the most prestigious pre-school?

Aug 12, 2012

First of all there is no BS in Econ at any of the Ivies. Second of all, I have many friends that went Ivy undergrad and non Ivy grad school; they are definitely not examples of regression. Some wanted a different experience or the wanted to try out the West Coast or the South. Lastly, this nonsense about getting below a 3.0 at an Ivy makes outsiders just seem idiotic. I know plenty and I mean plenty of below with sub 3.0 GPAs from Ivies and they still scored internships and FT offers.

The misinformation that is passed around this website from outsiders is grotesque.

Aug 12, 2012

Wharton Ugrad ONLY offers a BS in economics you idiot.

Aug 12, 2012
Pwn3r:

Wharton Ugrad ONLY offers a BS in economics you idiot.

Adn Wharton is the only undergrad what? I would never hand you a dataset.

Aug 12, 2012
IvyLeagueVet:
Pwn3r:

Wharton Ugrad ONLY offers a BS in economics you idiot.

Adn Wharton is the only undergrad what? I would never hand you a dataset.

And you don't understand English. You said no Ivy offered a BS in Economics and I said Wharton ONLY offers a BS in Econ, as in that's the only degree they offer.

Aug 12, 2012
Pwn3r:
IvyLeagueVet:
Pwn3r:

Wharton Ugrad ONLY offers a BS in economics you idiot.

Adn Wharton is the only undergrad what? I would never hand you a dataset.

And you don't understand English. You said no Ivy offered a BS in Economics and I said Wharton ONLY offers a BS in Econ, as in that's the only degree they offer.

Maybe he thought that the University of Pennsylvania was a state school? I mean, jeez, it might as well be.

Aug 12, 2012
IvyLeagueVet:

First of all there is no BS in Econ at any of the Ivies. Second of all, I have many friends that went Ivy undergrad and non Ivy grad school; they are definitely not examples of regression. Some wanted a different experience or the wanted to try out the West Coast or the South. Lastly, this nonsense about getting below a 3.0 at an Ivy makes outsiders just seem idiotic. I know plenty and I mean plenty of below with sub 3.0 GPAs from Ivies and they still scored internships and FT offers.

The misinformation that is passed around this website from outsiders is grotesque.

This is what my impression was coming in considering I know two kids with sub 2.7 GPA's at Columbia arts and sciences who are got interviews left and right lol. It will make it hard for them to get columbia MBA or any program close to it and so they will likely go to something on the tier of UMD.

Aug 12, 2012
Husky32:
IvyLeagueVet:

First of all there is no BS in Econ at any of the Ivies. Second of all, I have many friends that went Ivy undergrad and non Ivy grad school; they are definitely not examples of regression. Some wanted a different experience or the wanted to try out the West Coast or the South. Lastly, this nonsense about getting below a 3.0 at an Ivy makes outsiders just seem idiotic. I know plenty and I mean plenty of below with sub 3.0 GPAs from Ivies and they still scored internships and FT offers.

The misinformation that is passed around this website from outsiders is grotesque.

This is what my impression was coming in considering I know two kids with sub 2.7 GPA's at Columbia arts and sciences who are got interviews left and right lol. It will make it hard for them to get columbia MBA or any program close to it and so they will likely go to something on the tier of UMD.

Christ , 2.7 is really terrible - and that too in arts and sciences. What the hell did they major in?

Aug 12, 2012
Husky32:
IvyLeagueVet:

First of all there is no BS in Econ at any of the Ivies. Second of all, I have many friends that went Ivy undergrad and non Ivy grad school; they are definitely not examples of regression. Some wanted a different experience or the wanted to try out the West Coast or the South. Lastly, this nonsense about getting below a 3.0 at an Ivy makes outsiders just seem idiotic. I know plenty and I mean plenty of below with sub 3.0 GPAs from Ivies and they still scored internships and FT offers.

The misinformation that is passed around this website from outsiders is grotesque.

This is what my impression was coming in considering I know two kids with sub 2.7 GPA's at Columbia arts and sciences who are got interviews left and right lol. It will make it hard for them to get columbia MBA or any program close to it and so they will likely go to something on the tier of UMD.

I don't know about UMD B-school. I know a University of Phoenix grad at CBS and many sub 3.0 B schoolers at CBS. Granted, they have been vets, specifically Special Forces vets.

Aug 12, 2012
IvyLeagueVet:
Husky32:
IvyLeagueVet:

First of all there is no BS in Econ at any of the Ivies. Second of all, I have many friends that went Ivy undergrad and non Ivy grad school; they are definitely not examples of regression. Some wanted a different experience or the wanted to try out the West Coast or the South. Lastly, this nonsense about getting below a 3.0 at an Ivy makes outsiders just seem idiotic. I know plenty and I mean plenty of below with sub 3.0 GPAs from Ivies and they still scored internships and FT offers.

The misinformation that is passed around this website from outsiders is grotesque.

This is what my impression was coming in considering I know two kids with sub 2.7 GPA's at Columbia arts and sciences who are got interviews left and right lol. It will make it hard for them to get columbia MBA or any program close to it and so they will likely go to something on the tier of UMD.

I don't know about UMD B-school. I know a University of Phoenix grad at CBS and many sub 3.0 B schoolers at CBS. Granted, they have been vets, specifically Special Forces vets.

I've heard that schools are a bit more forgiving in re GPA when looking at military applicants (especially academy grads). I sure as shit hope this is the case, as my faaaar-below-3.5 GPA was actually in the top ~25% of my graduating class. I imagine engineers are cut a bit more slack as well, especially ones from schools that curve down to a C+/B-. Damn Ivy Leaguers and your grade inflation...

Aug 12, 2012

Preftige brah Preftige

Aug 12, 2012

Postgrad is more targeted and more specific, prestige matters less there. In the ugrad, though, you make friends for life as you have longer interaction span.

Aug 12, 2012

Obvious, if you go to a less prestigious undergrad and then move on to a more prestigious one it shows improvement.

The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.

Aug 12, 2012

$50 OP goes to UConn and just wanted to cause a shitstorm.

Aug 12, 2012

Y'all posting in a troll thread

Aug 13, 2012

Why not just go to a prestigious undergraduate and graduate school

fixes all debate

Aug 13, 2012
thatruth34pp:

Why not just go to a prestigious undergraduate and graduate school

fixes all debate

This.

Too bad half the morons on this thread go to a non target and realized their PASSION for investment banking as a sophomore.

Aug 13, 2012

I think it depends. Generally, I'd say grad is more important. This is a finance board, however, and there are certain jobs that require the IBD Analyst experience where going to a target is extremely helpful. Someone chime in if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression HF/PE firms don't generally recruit at the associate level and above. So even if you did something like non-target --> decent non-IBD/MC job --> top 5 MBA --> BB IBD it's unlikely you'll land in one of those industries, right?

Aug 13, 2012
tctc33:

I think it depends. Generally, I'd say grad is more important. This is a finance board, however, and there are certain jobs that require the IBD Analyst experience where going to a target is extremely helpful. Someone chime in if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression HF/PE firms don't generally recruit at the associate level and above. So even if you did something like non-target --> decent non-IBD/MC job --> top 5 MBA --> BB IBD it's unlikely you'll land in one of those industries, right?

If grad is more important, then why can't you go from non target -> average job/teach for america -> top 5 MBA -> PE? Even if you go to HBS or Wharton, PE Megafunds still prefer Target kid -> Goldman sachs IBD for 2 years -> KKR/Blackstone PE pre mba

Aug 13, 2012
Husky32:
tctc33:

I think it depends. Generally, I'd say grad is more important. This is a finance board, however, and there are certain jobs that require the IBD Analyst experience where going to a target is extremely helpful. Someone chime in if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression HF/PE firms don't generally recruit at the associate level and above. So even if you did something like non-target --> decent non-IBD/MC job --> top 5 MBA --> BB IBD it's unlikely you'll land in one of those industries, right?

If grad is more important, then why can't you go from non target -> average job/teach for america -> top 5 MBA -> PE? Even if you go to HBS or Wharton, PE Megafunds still prefer Target kid -> Goldman sachs IBD for 2 years -> KKR/Blackstone PE pre mba

You guys don't have any idea what you're talking about- both of you.

People jump from hedge funds to banks' S&T divisions to back all the time when it comes to trading. A lot of the folks in the group I was in came from a major hedge fund.

Academics with no industry experience- just PhDs from the University of Chicago also start hedge funds. CC: LTCM.

Yes, PE is a little diffferent. But on the hedge funds front, 40, even 50 year old traders make the move over there for the first time. Most important aspect is your trading record.

The reason they only recruit at the analyst level from IBD is because IBD folks aren't (initially) worth much when it comes to trading.

Aug 14, 2012

HUH, UGRAD PRESTIGE is way more important. The day I didn't get in a top tier Ivy for college (not my fault though), I knew the prestige of my academic life had come to an end.

--Money can't buy happiness. it can only buy orgasms.
--Who the hell says I want happiness? Orgasms all I need.

Aug 14, 2012
Misspartiesalot:

HUH, UGRAD PRESTIGE is way more important. The day I didn't get in a top tier Ivy for college (not my fault though), I knew the prestige of my academic life had come to an end.

you forgot about the junior transfer process.

Aug 15, 2012

you are completely whacked and you should be kicking yourself right now for that comment. So if you went to Berkeley...that wouldn't be "prestigious"? Man people are so freakin materialistic...

"Successful investing is anticipating the anticipations of others" - John Maynard Keynes
University at Buffalo, The State University of New York
Economics & International Trade

Aug 15, 2012
Misspartiesalot:

HUH, UGRAD PRESTIGE is way more important. The day I didn't get in a top tier Ivy for college (not my fault though), I knew the prestige of my academic life had come to an end.

Sarcasm? I honestly can't tell at all

Aug 21, 2012

"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it's the courage to continue that counts" -Winston Churchill

Aug 21, 2012
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