Why are there so many Canadians on this site?
Long time lurker here. Why is there such a disproportionate number of Canadians on this site? They seem to fall into three categories
1) Can't decide between Ivey and Queen's and a pissing match ensues
2) Defend Canadian recruiting whenever it comes up
3) Go to a non-target Canadian school (can't think of a worse fate) and dream of making it big at RBC
but none of them seem to realize that no one cares about Canada. Can someone make a BayStreetOasis.ca so I don't have to read about some kid in Saskatchewan who wants to make it big...in Calgary.
So you created a new username for an anonymous board just to make backhanded comments towards Canadians. Check out the balls on this guy!
Like with all other posts that come up often - 'rank these banks', 'which target school reigns supreme', if you don't like it, don't read it.
While I enjoyed your categorization and find it pretty accurate, there really are not a disproportionate number of Canadians on this site. Luckily, we always mention Canada in the thread title so you know what you are getting into ahead of time. So instead of making baystreetoasis.ca, why don't you stop clicking on the 1 out of every 50/100 threads relating to Canada.
Wow this is an asinine post OP...
Full Disclosure: I'm a Canadian from a one of 1) and I work in your beloved United States.
However, there is no difference between 1) and the pissing matches between every debatable ordered pair of US Schools (Ross vs. McIntire, NYU vs. Wharton). It's annoying, it's puerile but it's the reality of the internet. Deal with it.
Non-target pipe dreamers in Canada are no different that non-target pipe dreamers from your 10 billion shitty schools in the US that accompany your 50 good ones. People like to hope that they can "succeed" and "get rich", it's what drives the world's socio-economic evolutionary drive; if we ever lose that freedom to pipe dream, we're shit outta luck as a society.
And buddy, noone cares about Arkansas, Mississipi, North Dakota or any of your other 3rd-world-quality-of-life states, but we listen and we comment because this is a forum where advice is given [or supposed to be].
So in conclusion, shut the fuck and up and stop being bitter your sad little life sucks and you have to make up a new internet pseudonym just to point out that you're an ignoramus.
Canadians are really sensitive when it comes to their country.
No, we just hate ignorance and stupidity.
Fucking love the Canadian guys on here. Keep working towards those "shitty" jobs in Calgary, at least you'll have a job and can laugh at this twat when he gets fired from his retail teller position at Wells Fargo.
Original post is ridiculous, but...
It does seem like there are a good number of Canadians on here - at least active posters. I don't know/work with any Canadians, and it seems somewhat disproportionate to me as well.
Canada is one of the few countries in the world with a sustainably growing economy. Lots of natural resources, agricultural productivity, and open space. It's biggest problem really is the obnoxious neighbors to the south.
Hope you trip, fall and choke on a dick BansheeBeats
We takin over, recognize
Canada's amassed 90% of their population along the border in obvious preparation for an attack.
Not in a negative way, but there are most definitely a disproportionate number of canadians on this site. The only reason I know anything about any Canadian school is because of the amount of threads I've read. And no, almost none of then have "Canada" in the title. Again, not a bad thing, but it's definitely very noticeable.
Unless achieving prestige-baller-BSD status is what you're concerned with, I find that posts originated by Canadian users are far more intelligent and useful than posts by Americans.
There is definitely a disproportionate number of douchebag posts by Americans.
edit: wrong account. i can never remember my password
I guess we shouldn't.......BLAME CANADA!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Hey, Canada invented hockey, what's not to like?
lol I was about to make a thread on the same topic!
There is def a RIDICULOUS amount of Canadians on here. :p
Replace American with Canadian and it sounds right.
Americans who say Canadians are less obnoxious/ignorant/etc than Americans have never actually lived in Canada lol.
^ Why'd you delete your post? It was all pretty true.
Was on a different computer...my bad.
This is bullshit. You need some full disclosure going on when posting something like that
College / University: Canadian non-target Degree & Major: BComm Co-op Accounting and Finance Location: Canada Birth Date: Aug 11 1989
Obviously American posters won't be helpful, there's a 99% chance they haven't heard of your school. Judging by your previous posts, 99% of them have never even heard of the city it's in. If you choose to live in Atlantic Canada, you...I don't even know. Why would you ever choose to live in Atlantic Canada?
My full disclosure: I'm a Canadian at a top American school.
This.There's this tendency for Canadians to define themselves relationally to the United States. Canadians take pride in being different without from the United States without the self awareness to realize that 1) The two aren't actually that different and 2) No one outside of Canada cares about Canada (I stand by this). Of course, the smartest Canadians are generally the ones that leave.
I don't understand why so many Canadians rationalize reasons not to apply to the States if they know they want to do finance. Of any "international" location, it's easiest to get in from Canada. We're need-blind for financial aid at most of the top schools. The university experience is much more cohesive than at almost all Canadian schools where the majority of students are commuters. I also don't understand why anyone hoping to do finance would go anywhere other than Ivey or Queen's and maybe McGill. The admission requirements are ridiculously easy considering the quality of recruiting. There's really no excuse, especially considering that Canadian tuition is low, major scholarships cover a huge portion of the cost, and student loans are easily accessible.
I have respect for the top % at Ivey/Queen's that grind it out and make it. On the whole though, most Canadian posters here should be doing better for themselves than they are, and that's the truth of it. You're an idiot if you choose to go to Dalhousie hoping to do investment banking, even if you want to stay in Canada. Of course, say that and you get this Canadian patriotism that the posters would ditch in an instant if they had better opportunities.
Well good for you. And assuming this isn't a lie just to make your points or to toot your own horn, then that just means your original post is even more asinine and thoughtless than if it were coming from an American making an ignorant or unaware statement. Of all people then, you would be able to see IG's points without him making it clear: pipe-dreamers be they North or South of the border are not too different. Nor are small towners from some no-name towns in Alberta or Texas looking to do banking in Calgary and Houston respectively any different. And stupid school A vs. school B pissing contests ad nauseum are annoying across the board (though I will agree some newbie posters don't seem to understand the concept of 'search', and should do so next time they want to talk about Ivey, Queen's, McGill - there's nothing new you can learn about any of these schools you don't already have access to on WSO)
I do agree that opportunities presented for quality of recruiting are good at Canadian targets, and in previous post - that if you already knew ahead of time you want to be in finance, there's no reason to take a non-target in Canada, if you're a top caliber student and have better options right from the get-go. But just like US, there are people that can only get into non-targets - but as I mentioned previously, in Canada it's far less forgiving to get into anything finance as a non-target than in US where there's hundreds of boutiques if you can't get a brand name BB or MM.
But I don't think it's a matter of patriotism that people choose not to try for US recruiting. There's a matter of cost (just as why some Canadian students that could have gotten into top US programs choose not to), there's a matter of having ties to family and friends, or some people just don't place that much emphasis on the 'prestige' - banking is banking, and if local banks pay the same or similar, people may not care. Just like how some US-based WSOers on this forum have shown that they are aware that NYC is the place to be - they may still choose their regional offices for personal reasons.
Here's my full disclosure:
1) Yes - I am Canadian and go to Dalhousie University. Out of high school, I applied to nearly every single Canadian school because I honestly had no idea what I wanted to do in the future. I was accepted to every school I applied to, many with sizable academic scholarships. I clearly did not choose Dalhousie because of its strong recruiting program or prestige on Wall/Bay St., but because I knew that I would enjoy going to school there.
2) Dalhousie also has the 'cohesive university experience' you have described for the US schools. Nearly 60% of Dal students are not from Nova Scotia.
3) I am not from Atlantic Canada and do not plan on living there after graduation.
4) Perhaps not everyone is born knowing that they will dream of IBD SA positions and that the mere mention of FT offers and bonuses will make their heart pound. If you're like me and only really had exposure to the Investment Banking industry later in life, there are likely many decisions you wish you could redo. If I knew what I know now about the IB industry and the vastly different opportunities available to students of different schools, you're right, I would not have chosen Dalhousie.
Canada is a good hat.
Wiser words have never been uttered...
Yea, I didn't know anything about Canada either until after I started reading this site.
Some observations: 1. Canadian recruiting in NYC (and anywhere other than Canada) frankly sucks dick 2. I didn't apply to any Canadian schools, but my friends who could only get into schools ranked 30-40 in the U.S. were being bombarded with acceptance offers from UT, McGill. Allegedly, those are the best Canadian schools 3. Major inferiority complex because of 1 / 2 / history of national mediocrity
I wasn't even going to post anything until I saw the gaggle of Molson-chugging idiots flipping out above me
You're a dumbass. I got into two Ivy league schools and 3 other top 15 engineering schools out of High School (my program at the time). My Canadian university sends tons of kids to NYC IBD every year, more than all but maybe 15 or so American schools. U of T is a shitty business school but a great University so clearly you don't know shit.
This isn't a superiority debate because let's face it, there aren't really any significant cultural/social/economic differences except that your country (which I'm working in) is absolutely and truly up shit's creek from a macro point of view.
It's assholes like on this thread who make me want to take a 20-30K pay cut and work out of Toronto when I graduate next May.
Canadian schools have the easiest requirements. Most of the people in even the top programs are extremely unimpressive and were probably rejected by all top-10 US undergrads. That said, recruiting at Ivey isn't so bad, and it's been picking up recently at Queen's too. I'll never understand why though. Banks can easily get smarter analysts from top-10 US undergrads.
Dude don't take it personally
Let me clown you for a second:
I guess you didn't understand the point so I'll be explicit here --the U.S. college system is clearly more competitive than the Canadian one. Do you see any kids rejected from UT / McGill and get admitted to ivy-league schools? You wouldn't have gotten into every top U.S. school but I bet you got into every top Canadian school... (don't make this the main point in your next point of argumentation haha). Business school is quite irrelevant. Notice that I mention UT in point 2--the point about college admissions, and not about Wall Street recruiting from business schools. Either way, I haven't met many Canadians at any of the bulge brackets This country's going to hell and you STILL want to work here? Haha ok dude Tell your friendsAs a point of clarification - I believe he's referring to UofT's undergrad program... not MBA. In Canada, 95+% of students going into banking come from either an undergrad business program (your Ivey, Queen's, McGill commerce students) or engineers. It's not like in US where a kid with an arts background can be considered for S&T, for example. Picture if wall street only hired kids from Wharton, Ross or McIntire, for example. So he's saying UofT as a university as a whole, is a well-respected university, but it's commerce program in comparison to the aforementioned Canadian targets, is second-tier.
On your other points - yes, obviously the top universities in US like Harvard, Yale, Princeton are of a higher caliber, so top students getting admissions to all the schools in Canada may not necessarily get into all the Ivys in US. But it's also a very different system. We've got 1/10th of the population, and we've got far fewer universities/colleges by comparison, less investment into programs, less tuition costs, etc. We also have far far fewer private schools like Phillips Exeter or Andover or whatever that lead into top universities...
In US there's thousands of nobody schools, with the couple top 10-20 that people outside of US actually really know or care about. In Canada, it's more concentrated - there's only a handful that are 'universities', and the rest are colleges (and not in the same vein as you call 'college' in US). I would say the range of education quality is narrower in Canada - like I said, we don't have Harvards, but our bottom isn't as shallow. Tuition costs are much, much higher in US (average programs in Canada per year are like $6000-8000/year... and on the high end is Ivey's $20K/year, which can be considered cheap compared to some or many similar ranged target schools). I think Canada offers great bang for buck in terms of education and job opps, and you can potentially get the same opportunities as H/Y/P in BB or MBB for far less. You see less situations where you have $100-200K in school debt but come out of it with no job here in Canada.
Do people here really care about being at a BB in NY vs. staying in Canada to do banking... well, not everyone cares about that. Banking is banking, and you can make a very lucrative living here as well. But also not everyone is exposed to it. There are reasons you don't see 'a lot of Canadians at BB in US' - because there's a crap ton of local candidates vs. US banks having to sponsor Canadians to work in US, and besides the big Canadian targets, other students elsewhere in Canada haven't been exposed to that world (and are not aware you can get to a US bank directly out of undergrad).
I do agree with the OP's point to some degree - that if you're in Canada, and if you are a top student and if you know ahead of time you want to be in finance/consulting, there's no reason for you to not go to the target schools. But I would say that a lot of people don't really know what the f'k they want to do with their lives before entering university. And in Canada, if you realize you like finance/consulting/etc and you're at a reputable but a non-target school (at least finance-wise) or target school but wrong major, it's a far less forgiving situation than in US where you can come from any discipline and still end up on Wall Street (pending your personal efforts, luck and caliber).
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/dress-code-for-a-phone-interview
/thread
haha this is a pretty fun post OP. I don't share the same hate of Canada but they do have a lot of Ivey/Queens debates, and I would never have heard of any of their schools if not for these posts.
Queen's is CLEARLY the better school.. I think 6 GS NY IBD SA this year??? (more offers but some accepted JPM and MS over GS)
.
.
Who said we don't have any national pride . .. "Oh Canada, we stand on guard for thee"
I rather work in Canada than the United States.
America is going down hill so fast and I see no Hope, Change or Compromise.
The United States should invade Canada and annex British Columbia and Alberta. That was maintain the balance between the GOP and the Dems as Alberta will elect two GOPer Senators and BC will likely elect two Dems. And we would get all that oil.
What's wrong with having lots of Canadians on board?
One of the kids this summer loved to talk about Canada, he was so proud of it. We all ribbed him so hard, I don't know if it was that or the fact that he loved to strut about with his HYP pedigree. It was hilarious.
I'm from a canadian school (not ivey/queens/mcgill). Banks recruit here, including big 6 for IB and plenty of finance majors get FT IBD gigs in Toronto. Just goes to show that many of the posts on here related to recruiting are fucking stupid and posted by dick smokers who are insecure that their HYP pedigree sees the same salary as some fuck from a publicly funded Canadian school (except the rent is cheaper, HA).
WLU places 5 people in BIg 5 IBD each year, and Queen's places 5 in GS NY alone. That's the difference.
Worst thing about canadians are all the lies. every compulsive liar i've met is canadian.
SB for the OP because I have been wondering the same thing.
Nothing much against Canadians, except that I find hockey boring, but I have been wondering why in the hell there seem to be posts about Canadians trying to work in NYC. I was always under the impression that, regardless of the quality of your school, you are fighting a seriously uphill battle applying for jobs in a country where you are not a citizen and where you have not got to college. But people I guess still seem to want to do it.
To be fair, I always assume this place is pretty NYC-centric, which is clearly not the case given how many posts pop up about living/working in the South.
u find hockey boring.. lmao r u a chick? I bet u also hate hot girls, beer, wings, and football.
Nope, I actually like all of those things a lot and cannot wait for football season to start. Just don't like hockey.
Haha sweet jesus that first post hit close to home. I am from Saskatchewan and trying to apply to finance jobs in Calgary.
Critical thinking my friend... he was referring to you.
I guess that's likely, isn't it? Saskatchewanians trying to move to Calgary aren't too rare, but this is a pretty small site...
Truth to be told, I had a summer fling with a chick from Canada and she went to UBC (I believe British Columbia), somewhere in Vancouver. And a friend of a friend went to University of Toronto. Before this site, that was the extent I knew about Canadian schools.
Never really thought much about it. But it does seem Canadian schools are very well known outside of Canada. How are Canadian schools view by U.S. top b-schools in general?
I was reading the other thread on Mumbai. And from what I can gather, this site has a lot of Canadians, folks of Indian descent, or a mixture of both. Or it might be because these members are the most vocal compared to the general population. Interesting the demographics of this site. I would have thought a lot more concentration in the East Coast and more target school representation.
During my short visits to Toronto, I've noticed that the Indian girls there are about 10,000 times hotter than their counterparts in the States. I wonder why.
So, umm, if no one is going to ask this then I guess I'm going to have to man up and ask it:
Do Canadians have, umm, do Canadians have souls?
So insecure those silly Americans are.
Not everyone on this site is interested in banking. If you're interested in S&T, then the target school in Canada is Waterloo followed by Ivey, and the target schools in the US are MIT and Caltech. I knew I wanted to do finance in high school, and I got accepted into Ivey and Queen's, but I turned them down for Waterloo after doing extensive research on WSO and talking to people in S&T. Just pointing that out to any potential traders reading this, since the statement "Ivey and Queen's are the only targets in Canada" carries an assumption that the reader is into banking.
Also, I did apply to five Ivy League schools, but I got rejected by all of them. To imply that any Canadian who can't get into one of the top schools in the States is a total failure and a waste is very exaggerated. In Canada, only the top 5% of each high school apply to the Ivies, and of that 5%, only ~10% are selected. Princeton's acceptance rate for Canadian internationals is 5%. Only one out of four Canadian valedictorians who apply to Princeton get in. MIT accepts 9 people from Canada each year. Penn only accepts 27 people from Canada. Truth is, it's very hard for an International to get into an American top school, and we're not all doomed for failure. Also, outside of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, the costs of going to school in the States is not justified, especially compared to the super cheap Canadian schools (I pay $20,000 per year total). Harvard would cost me about the same, Penn would cost $30,000, and UChicago would cost like $40,000 since they don't offer financial aid to internationals.
I think RBC Capital Markets and TD Securities are way better banks than any of the US Bulge Brackets.
Well sure, if by better you mean smaller, on less deals, and less known.
http://trololololololololololo.com/
it might have something to do about them wanting to break into wallstreet but that's just conjecture.
eh?
Nowhere close to equal pay but believe whatever youd like. As for job security... well ya considering they hire like 5 people each year.. among the 6 of them.
I think the range doesn't go as high. For example, you won't hear of anyone making 30 million dollar bonuses (although Scotia Capital was paying one of their star traders 15M a year a while back, think his name was David Berry). On the other hand, the Associates here also make over 200K, and VPs here also make over 400K. Directors easily get into the 750K range, and MD often clear 7 figures. That's pretty equal in my eyes. Especially considering how much cheaper Toronto is than NYC.
50% on everything about 120k (or was it 100..).. the Canadian gov't is a theft.
Also, the trainee classes aren't nearly that small. I think between the big five banks, they probably take in about 60 people a year. Thats S&T only. Banking classes are way bigger. Probably a couple hundred spots a year across the Big5.
Yeah, but look what you get for it. Healthcare is free, education is free until university (and the public school system here is really quite good). University is practically free. Our economy isn't bankrupt.
When I had appendicitis, I had to wait in emergency room for 6!!!! hours before seeing any medical professional despite excruciating pain (couldn't even stand up). I actually passed out because of pain and I think thats when they decided to see me.
University is practically free? Explain to me why I am in 8k debt after first year then... total debt projected to grow to 22k this year, and by the time i graduate, 80k. Paying for target education when you live under the poverty line isn't exactly "free".
Public school system. They're okay, except teachers have absolutely no incentive to give out good marks to students, ESPECIALLY when the school board has an agreement with community colleges to help funnel students into them (douchebag guidance counsellor told me to go to sheridan to study business in grade 10).. I received honour roll only 2/4 years in high school (let alone top 10%).. now in Uni I am in top 10% of class.. and I am working less than I did in high school.
And yes, university is practically free. Screw this whole notion of target vs non target. I went to UofT. My entire undergrad cost me just under 25K (I commuted). I also got 22% of that back because of the tuition credits I was awarded. On top of that, I got interest free loans from OSAP to cover the cost while I was studying (which I paid back in my first year of working). I personally think going 80K in debt for your education is retarded, and I don't think Ivey is worth the money if that's how much it costs. And that's still not nearly as bad as going 200K in debt to study at Columbia or NYU or Wharton.
There's just no denying that Canada is a way less expensive place to be (and just a much better country to live in overall). I have an offer to transfer to our New York office. They are even offering me a 30% increase on my base and willing to give me a 15K relocation bonus. I'm still not doing it. I would never leave Canada for the US.
Also, I don't buy this excuse about teachers not having an incentive to give away good marks. Why should teachers give away anything? You earn your grades. I had a 96% average in my final two years of high school, and I went to public school. I got in everywhere I applied.
Didn't the Canadian Premiere (sp?) or one of their top "governors" come to Miami last year for open heart surgery? There's the immutable law of the universe: you get what you pay for. Free healthcare = shit healthcare. If you have a serious illness you come to the United States. If you want breast implants you go to Brazil. If you want to do nothing important with your life you move to Canada or the Netherlands. It's as simple as that.
lol @ rotman commerce. dude, it's cool that you want to defend your program and all, but no one's going to buy it if you're comparing it to Ivey. at the end of the day, Ivey's just a bigger target. also, 60K for Queen's Commerce is a way better deal than 5K or whatever for UofT, IMO.
Business school in general is just a multi-year social club. You network, meet key people, and use the alumni network to further your career. You don't actually learn anything useful in business school. I was checking out all the courses offered to Ivey students, and there wasn't one course that's remotely quantitative. No wonder why Ivey kids end up in Sales or Cash Equities instead of the derivatives desks. But Ivey is great for banking, cause in banking, all you need to know is how to "add, subtract, multiply, and divide if you're getting fancy."
Also, I'm Canadian, and I agree that nobody outside of Canada cares about Canada. I was sitting in a lecture one time, and the subject of the lecture was the comparison of living standards in Canada versus the US. One girl was so nationalistic that she screamed, "We're better than the Americans! We're just better." I shook my head. Canadians just have a sort of inferiority complex. Sure, we're still AAA and our economy isn't as shitty just because our banks are more prudent, but the US has the Ivy League and Wall Street. Enough said.
Toby, you aren't even in school yet. Calm your hormones until after you finished first year. But I do agree that you don't actually learn anything useful in low-tier business schools like McMaster, Laurier, and Ryerson.
Look at curriculum of Rotman Commerce Economics and Finance specialist.. Absolute killer. On the other hand, Laurier don't even have Finance II or Marketing II course until 3rd or 4th year. Absolute joke of a curriculum.
I am Canadian and I am starting to believe why people are sick of Canadians on this forum after reading the last 10 or so posts on this thread.
lmao, fair enough.
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