Why they aren't more women in X field

xgozax's picture
Rank: Senior Gorilla | banana points 824

I'm about sick of all the damn women (and virgins) complaining about how there aren't enough women in INSERT_CAREER_FIELD_HERE. This argument is made about minorities as well, which is similarly irritating. I'm writing this article to (brutally) highlight the things that women do wrong in the workplace and what they can do to fix it and accelerate their careers.

INTRO
How many times do we see these stupid tweets: "Uber faces huge diversity problems" or "Only 17% of start-up CEO's are females" like its actually a problem.

And what's their solution? To put women into these positions by force. I am seeing local female politicians who make 2 minute youtube videos and don't have the common sense to edit out the stutters and stammers that are being pushed en masse by hordes of females. Incompetence is being pushed on the public because women are under the illusion that they are being discriminated against. It's simply not true (at least not by men, but read on).

To be completely frank, there are plenty of reasons women don't make it into positions of power and probably will never in proportions equal to men (unless the collapse of the country is imminent - I'm looking at you Merkel). Here are a few things that automatically make a large majority (notice I didn't say all, there are MANY exceptions) of women bad hires in any organization:

CONS
* Women are irrational and overemotional, especially, but not only, on their time of the month. This is exacerbated exponentially when you have more than even 2 women working together. Their periods sync up and it's like a chain reaction every damn time. As someone who has experienced this situation, I can tell you that it is emotionally draining. Any corporative environment with greater than 20-30% women working together is going to be miserable. If not now, soon. This is probably the most irritating thing about women in the workplace.

* Women instinctively gossip and drag people's reputation through the mud. It's one of the cardinal rules of business and it's their natural instinct to violate it. They simply cannot stop running their mouths. They spread rumors, and a gossipy clique of women can and will quickly destroy the morale of the organization. They will happily agree and smile in your face because they are too cowardly to be honest about it. This is one of the worst things about women in the workplace.

If any of you monkeys learn anything from this post, its don't gossip EVER. People will listen to you but they will hate you. If you don't like something, grow some balls and do something about it. Nothing kills an organization faster than gossip.

* Women are hive-minded. They could genuinely and rationally like someone, but because they are so emotional they are more prone to adopting a mob-mentality with a clique of women or others. Women are typically more fearful and do not take stands. They will almost ALWAYS go with the crowd. Throw in one strong-willed person into a herd of women and s/he can easily get a group of overemotional women upset (over nothing) simply because s/he is upset. This is not the type of person you want in your organization, at least in large quantities.

* The only people who hate women are other women. I have never understood why, but I am assuming it's something biological. Seriously, can you stop mean mugging and giving strangers the stink-eye for no reason? Just for 5-minutes. Please. Jesus Christ (bless his soul)! Half (100%*) of the time I can't tell if women are actually doing these behaviors or if they are just so sensitive, territorial, and emotional that they are imagining things. Can women not just assume the best out of people? How many times have you heard women say that they hate being around women (damn sure its more than you've ever heard a man say it)?

That being said, there are some phenomenal qualities about women that make them great employees. Below I've listed two that's stood out to me the most.

PROS
* Because women are always scared shitless and terrified of authority, they make incredible worker bees. If you tell them to do something, you can bet it's going to be done, even if it takes a few nervous breakdowns. Women are x10 more accountable then men and you never have to worry about them being lazy or slacking off like you do with men. They don't require any motivational speeches or pep talks. The sheer fear of not meeting expectations is typically good enough. This however, can be a double-edged sword for their careers as they are too scared to embark on new ideas or ask for raises / promotions. 17% start-up founders being women is astonishingly high. Good job women.

* There generally good listeners and can be emotionally supportive and warm in ways that men typically aren't. They are kind, thoughtful, and pick up on things that men wouldn't (sometimes).

OVERCOMING
My advice to women looking to make a splash in business is three-fold

  1. Build your confidence and become comfortable sticking up for yourself and what is right, even if everyone around you disagrees with you. The initial pain and suffering will be well-worth it in the long-term. This means ending any gossip from you or other as soon as it begins. This means asking for promotions and raises when you think you deserve them and learning to legitimately love and trust yourself. Easier said than done of course.
  2. Stop hating other women. Treat them nicely. If they are rude to you, confront them directly and squash it immediately. I guarantee that confrontation is so terrifying to 99% of women that they will immediately bow down and respect you. Never confront or criticize someone in a group, always do it privately. Embarrassing someone in public could result in serious ill-will.
  3. Keep your emotions in check. One tantrum could stain your career forever.

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS
This was pretty much a rant of truth with tidbits of advice sprinkled in.

In anticipation of many calls of sexism and bigotry, I would like to give a little bit of my background:

  1. Grew up in a household of women where there were often 5+ women in the house
  2. Have a very hot, smart girlfriend of many years who would agree with everything I said
  3. Calling me names doesn't make what I say untrue

For those that disagree with what I've said, you probably don't have that much experience with the opposite sex (or your girlfriend is cheating on you) and I suggest getting off WSO because your time is probably better spent elsewhere.

NOTE: This argument doesn't apply to all women (jeez do people really think that 1-dimensionally?). This is an argument for "barriers" to women breaking in. Women that don't exhibit these qualities will are obviously rise to the top quickly as any man. You can't help them with diversity events, but the honest truth might help.

Discuss!

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Comments (102)

May 9, 2017

Hilariously accurate. Harsh and true

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May 10, 2017

So aggressive but I agree... anyway it is very nice when your girlfriend agree with things you say! I also have a hot and smart girlfriend and she argues me all the time =,=

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May 10, 2017

Phew, I was worried your girlfriend was going to be ugly.

Totally agree with you in regards to what you said, OP - well done.

'I'm jacked... JACKED TO THE TITS!!'

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May 10, 2017

If he had to announce that she is very hot then I'm betting she isn't.

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Jun 16, 2017

People are probably going to accuse him of objectifying women.

"I'm into, uh, well, murders and executions, mostly."

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May 10, 2017

That's not the real reason why there are less women. I demonstrate you the logic of a feminist:

Nice jobs in upper management position: Men 23, Women 4 -> clear case of discrimination

Construction workers: Men 274, Woman 0-2 -> Do you hear any feminists complain?

Countries with military conscription: ONLY Men are forced to do it, because women CAN'T do it given their "weak gender" -> you would expect every feminist to go crazy since society says women "can't do something, only men can", but they don't care

Equality yes, but only where we like it. (one reason why you can't take feminists for real, just ridiculous)

It's simple statistics. I am not in the industry yet but I have experienced it during my time as president of our finance society. If there are 20 spots and 350 men apply and only about 40 women how do you expect it to be 10-10? More men are interested in finance, therefore more men are in finance. It's the same with marketing where women dominate. I can't hear any men crying around. This has nothing to do with discrimination. You want to know what real discrimination is? Organizing "Diversity Events" where you are eligibly to apply if your skin colour and gender meets the requirements. If you have two people fighting for a job and one of them is a man who is slightly better than the woman, they will still give the job to the woman because they are are looking at the next diversity ranking. There you have your discrimination. It's basically not about equality, it's about giving jobs to women who may not deserve them, because society tells you to do so. I am so sick of feminists. They are not "supporting" equality, they simple hate men.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 10, 2017

Yes - I think females are also rewarded for just being female so there is little incentive to sacrifice and take big risks. A man alone has little unless he proves himself and does something to gain the same level of status a random hot 23 year old has

May 11, 2017

Do you return to your dump sites days later and have sex with their dead bodies?

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May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>lukedcify-.</span>:

Women are scum. Their is no such thing as a "good mother." A "good mother" might be good to her kids because of: 1. she wants to impress other parents (for her own benefit) or 2. She is growing her kids to support her when she grows old (for her own benefit). Women (scum) never behave in a truly altruistic manner. They are like children--worse, actually, because (male) children have innocence. Women are scum and need to be put in place. I hate hearing when filthy whores complain about sexism.

I'm really hoping this was sarcastic.

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May 11, 2017

what

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May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>lukedcify-.</span>:

Women are scum.

WTF. You must have had a shit upbringing, either under-cared or over-pampered. God knows what kind of shit your mom has had to put up with.

You remind me of that "Cash me ousside" girl.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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May 30, 2017

.

May 11, 2017

Agree that legislation in those areas need to be overhauled. But that's only a small piece of the entire pie of working women. I'm pretty sure that most working women don't divorce as much as you put it.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 30, 2017

Women just lie about discrimination to explain away their inadequacies.

May 11, 2017

Your mother filed a rape allegation against you? o_O :P

Last time I checked, that athlete kid at Stanford was cut loose with a piss poor punishment, after admitting guilt for raping that chick. Where was he "destroyed"? If I remember correctly, kid wasn't even expelled.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 30, 2017

.

May 12, 2017

lukedcify you get cheated on or something? Never seen anyone hate that much for no reason.

May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>consultant120</span>:

lukedcify you get cheated on or something? Never seen anyone hate that much for no reason.

Exactly what I was thinking. Someone has been giving too much unrequited love.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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May 12, 2017

on a side note, the Cash Me Outside girl is getting her own reality tv show. She'll be making some real cash now

May 11, 2017

Heard of it. It's like she's got her own brand now.

Funny how that girl has thaaaat big boobs at the age of 14. Unless, plastic.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 12, 2017

Provided that her first reality TV show is successful, she might be aiming for the 'Teen Mom' reality show by 16/17, followed up with a Farrah Abraham at 20

May 11, 2017

The only question running through my mind is : why do you know all of this? :-/

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 12, 2017

my GF was a fan of the show 'teen mom'. I never stopped hearing about the loss of 'values' when the former teen mom tv star ended up making a 'video' for money

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May 13, 2017

Lucidefy is a legit homo. No hate.

May 11, 2017

So? Is that an issue?

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 14, 2017

Really wish you were kidding about what you said because it was shameful. Your upbringing must have been trash.

May 11, 2017

What is troubling are diversity events further reinforce the blanket belief that females, latinos, blacks are disadvantaged and inferior b/c of their race/gender.

Yet, advocates for gender/racial equality lobby for looking past one's gender/race and instead to assess one for their individual attributes like character/intelligence. Logically, these points contradict each other. They can't have their cake and eat it too!

This shit is so laughable.

May 10, 2017

I think another factor a lot of people don't consider is that, broadly speaking, the majority of STEM/Finance majors are men. At more elite schools the breakdown is slightly more even, still with more men in highly quantitative fields of study.

Interesting exception is that at my school a slight majority (57%) of the Masters of Accountancy students are female. I don't want to make any rash assumptions here but generally it seems to me that those that seek out to be full-time CPA accountants are people that shy away from the cut-throat recruitment process and career-lifestyle associated with most finance jobs.

May 10, 2017

It's funny that you say that with accounting. I attended a spring week at a Tier 2 bank about IB and Markets. I asked a girl during the week if she already knows which division she wants to apply for in the summer. I was pretty shocked and surprised when she responsed "That's nothing for me, it's too much pressure, I wanna do accounting, that's what I like". Of course there are other girls that want to work in IB, but this example shows that in general men like competitive environments and can handle pressure more than woman. I have never heard a man say, he can't stand the pressure and wants to do accounting. Did you?

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 10, 2017

"this example shows that in general men like competitive environments and can handle pressure more than woman"

Bro, do you even logic?

EDIT: how very mature of you to monkey shit me.

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May 10, 2017

Yeah it's just an example (I was trying to say that everyone can experience this in their circle of friends, but it's a fact:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/DyeHard/men-crave...
"Women shy away from competitive workplaces whereas men covet, and even thrive in, competitive environments," the study, involving nearly 7,000 job seekers in 16 large American cities, concluded.

"Men are 94 percent more likely than women to apply for such a job..."

You might like competition but a lot of other women don't. That's a fact, if you like it or not.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 10, 2017

That the fact you induced from an example is a true general trend has no bearing on the soundness of your logical reasoning.

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May 10, 2017

I was trying to say that everyone can experience this in their circle of friends. But yeah I am sorry, I should have phrased it differently.

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 11, 2017

I am shocked at how ridiculous the WSO readership is. No doubt they will look at this response to you and think "Look at Fugue trying to get laid".

So predictable and tiresome.

May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>jordan25</span>:

I have never heard a man say, he can't stand the pressure and wants to do accounting. Did you?

You haven't met many men then. There are loads of guys who prefer accounting over IBD because of the pressure.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 10, 2017

Yeah, maybe it's because I am not used to such statements since people at my university are really competitive and almost everyone wants to do banking/consulting (we only have business/economics/finance majors, therefore the atmosphere on campus is quite finance focused).

Don't say this in a banking interview:

Which superhero would you be and why? I want to be like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich and giving to the poor - me.

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May 11, 2017

Almost all the finance girls at my school (non-target) say they want to break into high finance but don't have the confidence to break in or buckle down. Calling a stranger to network is too terrifying for them.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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Best Response
May 10, 2017

I'm a woman. I've always been against affirmative action. Maybe that all you said is true, maybe also that nobody gives a fuck about your simplistic generalizations since what matters is the individual behind. That's why there are interviews, so you can get an idea of the person behind and how well they'll function in your organization.

What I want from institutions is simply that they respect a basic principle: "equality of opportunity". If a spot is offered, I would like the gender of the applicant to be irrelevant.

Unfortunately, there are some parts of finance where this is not true. See the recent thread about a girl who asked about PE - cue a lot of guys answering that their firm simply did not hire women in their thirties because they might be pregnant.
Maybe I'm a competent woman who just wants to climb the ladder from monkey to gorilla supreme like any of you or maybe I just want to get into PE to get that sweet carried before popping out kids. It's a classic asymmetric information situation, the Akerlof's lemons problem: since you don't have any ways of signalling your quality, everyone will assume you're selling lemons. And so, nobody wants to hire a woman past their thirties in finance.

So, maybe that us women have managed to lobby an easier entry into the field, with our women-only events and Assessment Centres. But the farther away you get into your career, the lesser the impact of HR policies and politically-correct. Let me say this: I would exchange in a heartbeat this advantage at start for a more equal playing field once the real interesting things begin (who gets to be a MD, who gets into the megafunds, etc.).

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May 10, 2017

Why are the next step jobs in finance even more men dominated than the first steps? Simply because of personal selection bias. Of the women I know who went into banking less than 10% of them even continued on a finance career track after their analyst stint. They went to B-School and then on to corp finance or went into the non profit sector. The biggest reason you don't see women in PE, HF, etc is because they just don't go out for it in the same numbers they go out for banking. Sure there might be some worry on the part of the firms that the women they hire will get pregnant but that notion is reinforced by the lack of interest from women in general.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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May 10, 2017

I'm not saying that there isn't a personal selection bias. I am saying that there is also an objective discrimination. It's a combination of factors.
Look at the answers in this thread: https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/how-does-on...
"At my new shop (PE) there is an unwritten policy to only hire women who have gone beyond the likely age for bearing a child. "
" most firms balk at hiring a mother of a baby/child/preggers, etc, simply because of efficiency concerns. Even if the firm does agree to hire you, they're expecting that you'll stay, but won't promote you for a host of other reasons. "

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May 11, 2017

So for this unique reason, turn the valve all the way on and unleashing the floodgates by mandating that all women be in equal proportions to men in every portion of business at all levels?

I don't think so.

The reality is that this is not a function of discrimination as much as it is the laws the allow moms so time off. Childbearing is an enormous responsibility and can throw a monkey wrench into an extremely organized, risk-averse processs.

You're damn right they are going to have a slight bias when selecting candidates. To say that it's forbidden and there can't be exceptions is non-sense. You must soothe their worries just like any out-of-towner must do with employers when he's moving to a different state.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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May 10, 2017

Okay? You are complaining about a biological reality. If I run my company so thin that I can't afford to have an employee out for a month or two at a time, I can't afford to hire a woman who might become pregnant. It isn't discrimination it is reality. The problem I am seeing today is that there are large numbers of people who either can't tell the difference or they are actively trying to change the definition of words. I get that it sucks but the issue is that in this day and age with computer efficiency many companies are running at the absolute minimum number of people when it comes to personnel its a growing problem that will have to be addressed as the increased use of automation continues to grow. A company doesn't exist to employ you, it exists to make money. If it has been calculated that hiring women who may become pregnant is too high a risk to the profitability of a company then that situation will try to be avoided.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>heister</span>:

Okay? You are complaining about a biological reality. If I run my company so thin that I can't afford to have an employee out for a month or two at a time, I can't afford to hire a woman who might become pregnant. It isn't discrimination it is reality. The problem I am seeing today is that there are large numbers of people who either can't tell the difference or they are actively trying to change the definition of words. I get that it sucks but the issue is that in this day and age with computer efficiency many companies are running at the absolute minimum number of people when it comes to personnel its a growing problem that will have to be addressed as the increased use of automation continues to grow. A company doesn't exist to employ you, it exists to make money. If it has been calculated that hiring women who may become pregnant is too high a risk to the profitability of a company then that situation will try to be avoided.

"Biological realities"? I wouldn't be surprised if that term got on the same blacklist as "illegal alien" because it makes someone feel bad.

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May 10, 2017

Yeah, well, don't complain that women get into the field easier than men. Recruitment process is governed by HRs, and HR are women. It's a cultural reality after all. If I want my company to do well on the PR side, I can't afford to only have male monkeys playing in my jungle. It isn't discrimination it is reality.

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May 10, 2017

I don't care if more women get into the industry, I care about the standards being equal. The biggest example of disparity of standards is in the US military. Of the friends I have in the military I hear stories on a regular basis about how the standards are vastly changed between women and men. I'm even cool with the some of the PT requirements being slightly different but when I hear that women are required to do 10 push ups 25 sit ups and 1 pull up. While men are required to do 50 push ups 100 sit ups and 10 pull ups that isn't adapting the standards for development differences that is skewing the data to give the appearance that women are just as capable in the military as men. The most egregious story that I have ever heard was regarding a 15 mile hike, the platoon had to do a full battle pack on the 15 mile hike. The platoon had 3 women in it who gave their packs to the men to carry on the 15 mile hike and they just chatted among themselves at the back of the group. Not only did they not carry ANY of their 95lb load out they burdened their platoon mates with their packs on top of the packs they already had to carry and they were still lagging behind. If we want equality we have to expect equality of effort as well as equality of opportunity.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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May 11, 2017

The military is biased towards women for biological reasons. These biological reasons stem to body composition and even the calorie requirement for men and women. The military requires physical exertion as part of the game, which most women would find difficult to cross. That in turn, affects their performance vis-a-vis males, which in turn affects their career prospects in the military. Which is why you see a similarly proportionate (and low) number of women in the upper echelons of the military, where the position is more mental than physical. I don't have a problem with making women generals if they've passed the performance criteria and have earned the respect of the men under them (which usually doesn't happen due to biases such as yours). But if women began demanding more upper military positions without satisfying the requisite criteria, I would certainly have a problem with that. SJWs are more of the latter kind.

But finance isn't physically demanding, nor are the tons of other white collar jobs from which women are systematically excluded, even when they are capable enough. Yet, due to such unfounded biases, women are excluded from both entry-level positions and top brass positions. Note that women events are usually only present in BBs and MBBD, and in my opinion, are mainly for huff and show, since these women rarely reach the top. GS and MBBD are notable exceptions, since I've seen a steady rise in the number of female top brass since the start of their women events several years back.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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May 30, 2017

No such thing as discrimination against women, blacks or gays. Its the exact opposite--those groups get great benefits and they don't succeed because of their own inadequacies. In fact, I just lie about being Black/hispanic and gay and transgender to get into special scholarships.

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May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>lukedcify-.</span>:

In fact, I just lie about being Black/hispanic and gay and transgender to get into special scholarships.

And that's why you're scum. Affirmative action is one thing, but lying to game the system is fraud, no question about that. Which makes you ineligible for working in high finance. There's no difference between you and that illegal fatso VP from GS.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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May 10, 2017

All this from an unemployed college student.

May 11, 2017

I'm at a top tier bank right when I graduate, top of my class. Thanks for stalking though, I'll definitely reach out to you when I need my biography written.

Keep up the great work. In a few years, the commissions on my book will let you quit your day job (;

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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May 10, 2017

Bullshit. All of your posts have been resentful diatribes because you didn't break in, and this is more of the same.

I told you when you first started this shit: your attitude and outlook are going to ruin your career, and there's no way anyone can effectively hide that much seething resentment. It's toxic and anyone across from you will pick up on it ASAP.

Grow up.

May 11, 2017

@xgozax , as much as I think you're a little bitch and you don't deserve the advice, you should heed what @ArcherVice has to say. Your piss poor attitude and deep seated insecurity/insufficient compensation for it have been evident to me since the first post of yours I read, but this one is really above and beyond.

May 11, 2017

@Fugue @ArcherVice hey believe what you want. I kick ass in every area of my life.

Every post I send out gets 60+ comments, it's not by accident. I spit the truth like a real man, I don't cower around people's safe spaces. That's what people want. If you don't like it, too bad you lose just like everyone else who tried to take their imaginary moral high ground. You can fight the truth, but you won't win. You'll lose slowly over time. And the best part, I don't have to do a thing; reality does the work for me.

Appreciate having you both in my fan club, and looking forward to seeing you both commenting on all of my posts in the future.

Have fun beating your meats.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

May 11, 2017

It's not resentful @ArcherVice. That's a very simple way to look at it. Its the best way to bring (long-term) attention to a real problem.

Keep watching, you'll see.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

May 10, 2017

There's a reason you're unemployed.

May 10, 2017

Let's make sweeping generalizations about ~50% of the human population from the perspective of some kid that probably can't even legally buy alcohol and state them as fact! That'll make for an insightful and nuanced discussion!

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May 11, 2017

Until you can come to the conclusion on your own that women are completely different creatures from men, you will remain a virgin and will never touch an attractive women.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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May 10, 2017

I genuinely laughed at this response.

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May 11, 2017

Thanks!

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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May 11, 2017

You remind me of the kid nobody liked in elementary school that was constantly ostracized and compensated by retreating further into his own one man clique, running around, making inside jokes to himself and laughing at them, and generally being a nuisance while drinking too much apple juice for his own good.

May 11, 2017

I suspect he'll just get really frustrated and become some school-shooter soon. Not good.

Still, this made me laugh lol.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 10, 2017

"" The only people who hate women are other women. I have never understood why, ""

Women hate younger women. Because youth is beauty. And (unfortunately) for them, it's a constantly depreciating asset. It's why the 10s (supermodels) usually have few women friends. Way too intimidating for your average girl.

Parallel this to guys. Most poor men hate wealthy men. It's the same thing. Fortunately for us, wealth appreciates with age.

    • 1
May 10, 2017

I think everyone can understand this next scenario and why men are less risk averse and therefore more likely to gain in reward. Have any of you ever been to a casino? Where are the women gamblers? The stock market, any investment is a gamble, the same principal that applies casinos applies to finance jobs.

In my life experience, men take a lot of gambles in life. The women that take gambles don't really take gambles. Behind this facade so many startup funded CEO's that are young women are incredibly wealthy(or at least their parents are) to begin with. I know this girl posting quotes on FB "live a year like nobody will to live a life like nobody can", the next week she took a vacation to St. Barths

Sure that's one story. Now I don't fault women for going not going into finance or think less of them. I don't think that your job should define you or neither does ones title defines oneself.

May 11, 2017

This thread is destined to be a shitshow.

May 11, 2017

What do you mean destined? It was certifiably a shit-show dumpster fire from inception...I feel like the clock has been rewound ten years and I'm on 4chan right now...

May 11, 2017

Seconded. WSO is getting more cringeworthy by the day, that I'll soon have to resort to watching PewDiePie videos at work. Not cool mates, not cool...

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

    • 1
May 11, 2017

Or just keep masturbating by yourself

EDIT: just what I thought, Frank is a brainwashed libtard who believes Comey being fired affects the Russia investigation. #STOPFAKENEWS

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

May 11, 2017

Sure, I'm a brainwashed libtard - it's sort of the conservative standard in Europe. But try getting a real job first, would ya? Then you can advise me on how to spend my downtime at work.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 11, 2017

this thread sucks

    • 3
May 12, 2017

I honestly thought your account got hacked and this was some kind of gag thread. Why don't you focus all that energy towards breaking into banking in the first place rather than being salty about something that is still effectively within your own control?

    • 3
May 11, 2017

Don't get me wrong @xgozax . I enjoy a girlfriend that wants to please as much as the next guy - mine is one of them. I'm also usually the one that's skeptical of pro-affirmative action rhetoric. But Jesus Christ, what a bullshit thread.

It's clear that you don't work with high caliber people, both because this is not how women behave at top institutions, and it's not how men at top institutions view their female colleagues. This is not a point of argument - it's a point of fact - and your ignorance of the fact, nay, your assertion to the contrary, is showing me that you probably work at some cut rate shop where this sort of mentality fosters itself.

Your characterization of a gender by their lowest common denominator is as devoid of value as someone characterizing men as testosteroe-soaked meatheads that just want to fuck and kill. True in some uselessly broad sense? Sure. Applicable to any reasonable world view about your colleages? Absolutely not.

xgozax:

This was pretty much a rant of truth with tidbits of advice sprinkled in.In anticipation of many calls of sexism and bigotry, I would like to give a little bit of my background:Grew up in a household of women where there were often 5+ women in the houseHave a very hot, smart girlfriend of many years who would agree with everything I saidCalling me names doesn't make what I say untrueFor those that disagree with what I've said, you probably don't have that much experience with the opposite sex (or your girlfriend is cheating on you) and I suggest getting off WSO because your time is probably better spent elsewhere.Discuss!

What fucking non-target did you go to, to have critical thinking skills this poor? Has it ever occurred to you that, like most people, the 5 women in your family and your girlfriend are just plain stupid - indeed, that your misogynistic attitude is probably a product of being raised by these idiots - and that your assumption that these six are ambassadors for womanhood is something that the rest of us would expect from someone with Aspergers and a fedora?

Why don't you mosey on over to Return of Kings where your caliber of thought is more at home.

"A bit of background":

  1. Raised by a woman that came from nothing and made managing director before 30, and has never bitched to me about gender issues despite having to deal with them in spades. As an aside, I wonder how many of those obstacles did your mommy have to overcome while baking pies for your daddy and you? As a second aside, shoutout to @Monkeyrella, who has amazingly kept her cool despite apparently being the only woman in this dumpster fire of a thread. You remind me of my mom.
  2. Works with a lot of high earning females who have literally never displayed this behavior disproportionately to their male peers.
  3. Isn't suffering from a spectrum disorder that requires me to sublimate my childhood issues with the opposite sex into a toxic, labyrinthine rant that takes n+1 paragraphs to "expose" the two dimensionality of ~4 billion people.

You've struck me as an immature moron in most other threads, but this one really puts the garnish on the shit sandwich. Where the fuck is @Jim_Lahey when you need him.

May 11, 2017

Thank you so much for this. As a woman currently working to break into the field, this post scared me so much. None of the alumni/Analysts/Associates/recruiters that I have spoken to at the bulge brackets (or anywhere actually) have displayed this attitude, but it's definitely something that I'm worried about going into my first (I'm a sophomore) IB Internship this summer, and looking toward recruiting for next year and for full time.

Reading this thread, I simply cannot believe how many people (men, specifically) still believe that women have an actual inability to perform, compete, and advance the same way that men can. I'm not going to pretend that there aren't certain "biological realities" that make it more difficult to be a woman, but I certainly don't complain about those or use them as an excuse anywhere near as much as I hear men like OP use them as a source of blame for inequities that in many cases occur because of the natural bias to gravitate towards and befriend people like us (read: driven, outspoken men) rather than because of actual insufficiencies in female candidates.

I truly hope that the horrifying comments in this thread do not represent any large portion of the people I will be working with this summer, as those I have spoken to so far have respected me and have garnered my respect and admiration. I am prepared to deal with misogyny to an extent, and I thought I had braced myself for a lot, considering the field, but this is ridiculous considering how far I had hoped the world had come since, I don't know, the 20's? If anything, I would argue that some women avoid fields like IB expressly because of people like the ones on this thread, who whine and complain that women have it easy while they make it difficult for women to even speak their minds, let alone break down barriers.

    • 6
May 10, 2017

The OPs post is not moored in reality. He's an unemployed college student with an apt ability to showcase his shortcomings. If I were a woman I'd be worried about a workplace culture like this:

https://www.susanjfowler.com/blog/2017/2/19/reflec...
More than a few lessons to learn in that post.

May 11, 2017

No thanks required. It makes me furious to think about how people like my mother and girlfriend are forced to work for and among insecure, inferior, quivering specimens like @xgozax, whose faux-confidence is just a flimsy cover for the fact that they feel threatened by women at work. I wonder why that would be - probably because they're not as hot shit as they pretend to be.

Exposing this sort of masturbatory blight to the sun is reward enough itself.

May 10, 2017

I was also raised by a woman who made it to MD of one of the leading banks in my home country. She would come home at 10-11pm and I wouldn't see her much on week days but she would spend strictly all of her meager free time taking care of us. She was such a loving, intelligent and successful woman. She wasn't at all bossy or cynical, but feminine and compassionate. She would know how to make a customer accept terms he had refused and make him think it was his idea in the first place. She was the #1 conflict solver of the bank. She would interact with people assuming they were as clever as her (she made me read Dostoyevsky at 10 years old). In the end, those were the qualities that made her rise above everyone else, and why she was trusted so much by upper management.
Maybe I did not have much time with her when I was young (I was raised by nannies on week days), but I've never lacked of love or anything material. I would never exchange my memory of her for a childhood of being raised by a stay-at-home mom (which is an equally respectable choice for a woman to make).

    • 2
May 12, 2017

looks like they cooked their shit goose this time, doesnt it? @Fugue

    • 1
May 13, 2017

So was the woman who raised you, your mum or you adopted?

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

May 11, 2017

This thread should probably be deleted

@WallStreetOasis.com
@AndyLouis

    • 2
May 11, 2017

Probably should be, lest someone think OP and his proponents are representative of the community here. Though part of me wishes it could stay here in the light, where this BS and it's proponents can be engaged openly.

May 11, 2017
<span itemprop=name>Fugue</span>:

Probably should be, lest someone think OP and his proponents are representative of the community here.

Imagine if this wound up on the front page of the Wall Street Journal. Talk about reputation risk for WSO

Some of the comments in this thread are the most abominable I've seen since I've been on this site

    • 3
May 11, 2017

That's exactly what I'm imagining. And agreed.

Unfortunately, as this community grows in popularity, so too does the element within it that harbors these BS notions. I'm disappointed that so many bananas were awarded to OP for this garbage.

May 11, 2017

I'm disappointed that so many bananas were awarded to OP for this garbage.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

    • 2
May 12, 2017

There are more than enough alt-right highschoolers on this site. It shouldn't come as a surprise that this "red pill" neckbeard mentality gets bananas.

May 11, 2017

Germany isn't collapsing dweeb. Last time I checked, the EU had a faster growth gain than the US. True, there are other factors, but I would certainly take Merkel over that fatass Schultz.

As for your threads doling out non-existent advice, please, please get a fucking job. I'm not going to listen to you, simply because you have a biased opinion of women at the workplace. When you grow up from the college fratboy you are, then we'll talk. I mean look at this goddamned post - way more cons than pros.

While I do oppose giving women more opportunities simply on grounds of having a vagina, I'm quite sure that capable women in leadership roles add much MUCH MUCH value to a company than the mainly prevalent fratclub on the top of most boards. IMO, women should be given adequate opportunities to prove themselves and rise to the top. And most men and women over here would agree with this - equality at the workplace is not what is required, but equality of opportunity. And currently, there is a severe dearth of that, especially as you move away from NY/SF/LDN, etc. I have seen a slew of capable women rise to the pinnacle of their companies. Heck, the CEO of the most badass company in America (LMT) is a woman (Marillyn Hewson).

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

    • 3
May 12, 2017

I believe we shouldn't spend too much time arguing for diversity and women rights due to following reasons:
1) There are no objective/ definitive ways to fix this; and this will never end.
2) Diversity and Women Rights policies have always been used by politicians to divide their citizens and to sway votes during the elections. Rather than saying, "I have these experience hire me." The debate usually turns to "he says grab women by the pussy so he cannot be our leader."
3) Development of minority and women rights always go through the development of a nation. Only when a country is developed/rich enough then it will spend time on issues like this. In an emerging/poor country, getting food on the table for the citizens should be a priority - not diversity.
4) Cultural norms will change. Personally, I have seems with more wealth coming to Asia, people have become more open to liberal/open ideas; whereas, the West has come to visit more of spirituality/conservative ideas favored by the East (previously).
In conclusion, no one can have it all. Whether you are Men or Women, Majority or Minority race, all of us will have our own strengths and weaknesses. As a leader, our job is to have empathy - to be able to look at things from other's perspectives. To find similarities (rather than differences) to unit a group of people with different backgrounds/ ideas/ beliefs/ upbringings to fight for a common cause (company KPI, a goal). And we should devote more resources on this.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/...

    • 2
May 11, 2017

But to be dismissive of the unique skillsets, talents and perspectives that women bring to the workplace, like OP is? I don't really savor the idea of that. Looking at half the reasons he's given as cons makes me think he's working/studying in some Fucksville in the middle of Idaho or Montana.

And yes, we're talking about the US here, which is a developed country, but seems to find it hard to accept women empowerment as an objective. Also, agree with the East-West shift. Countries earlier grounded in tradition like China, Japan and Korea have evolved with more liberal attitudes, while America and Britain seek to find fortune in the "culture" and "traditions" of the 1950s and 60s.

EDIT:- Went through the article and 100% agree. Women who want to make a career cannot expect to raise their own kids unless they've reached a respectably high position. But if a woman has dead-set eyes on making a career in high finance, in an ideal world, nothing should stop her. But that isn't currently true.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 12, 2017

Was in New York for 10 years and considered myself as a New Yorker as much as an Asian. Instead of focusing our attention on terrorism, gender pay gap, climate change, and diversity issues, we (as American) need to focus on putting people back to work. It is the boosting our economy, which matters the most. Instead, we have taken a protectionist approach, steered away from global trade, continued with political bickering that benefit no one in the end. On the other hand, we are seeing China taking a much stronger stance in global trade, instead of fighting terrorism using softpower from One Belt One Road Initiative to win over countries and secure its resources supply, and a booming middle class population that is continuing to grow.

    • 2
May 12, 2017
  1. Anyone who says on the internet that they have a "very hot, smart girlfriend" either a) doesn't or b) is ragingly insecure.
  2. I work with ~60% women in my job. All are grads of top MBA programs - your "Cons" section is a) dead wrong and b) if you really believe "the only people who hate women are other women" I have a wonderful flying pig to sell you.
  3. There's a significant body of research that shows companies with more women in senior management (or investment management) outperform those without. As to why, I could write a whole treatise on why men "suck" in the workplace (and I'm a man). Overconfidence, irrational (yes, irrational and emotional!) risk-taking, unwillingness to collaborate, etc, etc. Female strengths balance out male weaknesses and vice-versa.
  4. Growing up with 5+ women in the house gives you no expertise on women in the office. None.
    5.. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a decent amount of agreement on this site. Most of the people here are either students or people who have <5 years in the workforce and have an extremely limited POV. Also, saying that people in IB positions have expertise on women in the workforce is like saying that the best person to ask about American football is a Canadian.
May 12, 2017

I think for me I didn't choose finance because I never had an interest for it. If someone would of told me , you know there is "money" in finance, I would of changed my mind early on.

May 12, 2017

You should heed your own advice and keep your own emotions in check. Not only is this one of the most insulting posts I have ever seen, I'm surprised you even have the nerve to continuously talk down on other people throughout this thread.

Here's a thought: if you're so sure of your beliefs on this topic share it with HR/your current team, I want to see how quickly your fan club there grows.

This whole thread needs to get deleted.

    • 1
May 11, 2017

I doubt he even has a job, let alone his firm having an HR division.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

May 13, 2017

In all honesty, on a website where many members happen to be college kids overly eager after re-reading Leveraged Sell-Out's blog for the 70th time, it's to be expected.

OP can get any FT offer he wants from any top BB he chooses, his attitude and character will come out soon enough. Saying your truth which you're entitled to vs blatant disrespect is a big difference; however, this is all behind a screen on an anonymous online forum seeking approval from strangers, so.. lol. Good luck OP.

    • 1
May 12, 2017

Wow so this is a real thread. I shouldn't be surprised at this point I guess. Not even sure where to begin.....

First off the con section is utterly ridiculous so I am just going to leave that alone. You do have some valid points, specifically around women being considered worker bees. Because of this, women are often kept in execution roles with minimal leadership opportunity. This often stagnates their careers (there are men that this happens to as well).

The major point that is missed by this article (and from what I can tell the comments) is the unconscious bias. We as people like to be around people that resemble us. There are studies that show when looking at people for promotions, leaders are more likely to choose those they get along with the best and are like themselves. Having been in male-dominated fields my whole life, I witness this all the time. I just can't connect with my male colleagues the same way males can (and I am sure this is the same for males trying to connect with female colleagues). When leadership is just white males, left unregulated, the leadership will likely continue to be white males because they promote people like themselves. All that is asked (or I believe all that should be asked) is for those in leadership positions to become conscious of this bias. Although it may seem like women are being "forced" into leadership roles, it is meant to take out some of this bias.

Women (and minorities) do have barriers to face that white males likely do not that does make it more difficult for them to have as successful careers. Let me give you a few examples from my personal experience:
- I randomly had a great conversation with what ended up being a partner of a firm I was interested in. We kept in touch and started to talk regularly. Turns out he was not interested in helping me get a job, he just wanted to sleep with me (fyi he was at least 25 years my senior so I think it is fair that I did not expect this). This has also happened with coworkers. I do not believe men have to think as much if others are actually interested in what you have to say or are just listening because they want to sleep with you.
- Maybe I got interviews or jobs because I am a girl, but once I start working I have to work extra hard to prove my value and gain respect. This might be because people assume I was hired because I am a girl, idk. I am going back to school and decided to only go to a top 10 program partially so having that on my resume would help give me some respect, we will see if that works.
- I had performance reviews (full disclosure this would usually only happen when I was working with other women) that were entirely about my appearance ("you should cut your hair", "wear heels and skirts more") and not at all about the actual work that I had done.

I by no means believe men and women are the same. Women have different traits and perspectives that I think can enrich all working environments. You don't want to work with all people that are your same Myers-Briggs types right? If you actually try and embrace the diversity and what it brings, I do believe it will pay dividends to the company in the long run.

Note - My weak point is writing so apologies for any grammatical mistakes

    • 1
May 11, 2017

That's unfortunate that you have to take into consideration that people are networking with you in a professional setting with sleazy intentions.

Do you let them down softly or draw a hard line in the sand?

May 13, 2017

This thread is appalling. In between all of the "women just aren't suited to the work" to "there is equal opportunity on paper" to "women are hot and nothing more" there are actually some insightful posts from people sharing their lived experiences. Read them, try and learn. It will probably be helpful for your career because if HR catches or gets forwarded anything like what's here, you'll lose your job. Also, most normal people won't want to work with you.

No one from a minority group actually wants affirmative action. We just need it at the moment to normalize a culture that is hostile (even if passively) so that the places we work at can attract and keep talent. I'll be jumping for joy the day this is no longer an issue.

For some of the above posters, I'm glad that you've never experienced the issues that capable women face academically and professionally. The thing is, a lot of what goes on is subtle, so you probably don't see it unless you're experiencing it.

Consider women in college. There's a lot of banks coveting STEM graduates at the moment. However, there's a lot of evidence that women in physics and engineering classes struggle to find study groups as readily as their male peers. Anyone from these majors know that you really need to work with your cohort to do well. In addition, many women drop STEM majors at a higher rate than their male counterparts. This is often because of different cultural ways women and men are taught to process failure. The head of physics at my alma mater was famous for reminding students that often enough, the woman who gets a B on an exam blames her abilities for not doing as well, whereas the man is more likely to explain it as a "bad day" or a "weird exam".

Consider networking for summer analyst positions. The reality is that a lot of the typical networking lines - frats, varsity sports, more quantitative majors, friendships - are male dominated. It's a lot easier to set up a coffee with the guy who was in your frat a few years above you than try and get someone who barely knows you to vouch for you. I'm not saying there are no lines for women, but there are fewer. This probably wouldn't be the case if more women were in the field.

And on the job - things can be harder than they seem. I've spent time in a few different groups between undergrad and full time work, and I had a very hard time in the one team where I was the only woman. I noticed that when the interns were there, they had already been good friends with the guys in the team from undergrad. My colleagues spent far, far more time training them then they did when I joined the team (I had nothing - literally I'd ask to sit down and go over things and people would just brush me off). There were a lot of demeaning comments passed about women (applicants, girlfriends, colleagues in other groups). It also made some of the out of office socializing difficult, because it often ended up being the juniors on my team and all of their male friends (who I barely knew). I didn't feel safe in an environment where I was the only woman among a sea of guys who I didn't really know, when the objective of the night was to get plastered.

    • 6
May 11, 2017

It's very easy for a woman to set up a coffee or phone call with a guy - the easiest. They just don't seem to have the guts to do so.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

    • 1
May 13, 2017
    • 1
May 13, 2017

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

May 14, 2017
May 11, 2017
May 13, 2017
Jun 16, 2017

"I'm into, uh, well, murders and executions, mostly."