Middle Market Investment Banks
Let me start off by saying: this thread is not for rankings! I completely agree with WSO comments that “rankings” are arbitrary. However, there has been a tremendous reshuffling since 2008, and I’m asking for help categorizing investment banks (in U.S.). In particular, middle market and boutique investment banks. I’m looking for guidance from everyone (BB, MM, and boutiques), not a bashing that one investment bank is better than another.
A majority will agree that the Bulge Bracket’s are:
Bank of America/Merrill Lynch
Barclays Capital
Citi
Credit Suisse
Deutsche Bank
Goldman Sachs
JPMorgan
Morgan Stanley
UBS
What about Middle Markets?
What about Boutiques?
a) Well Fargo/Wachovia (not sure if they are top MM or bottom BB?)
b) RBC Capital Markets (I know BB in Canada, but are they considered top MM in U.S?)
c) RBS (no clue where they stand anymore)
d) BNP Paribas
e) ABN AMRO
f) HSBC
g) Jefferies (once considered boutique, where do they stand now? Lower or top MM?)
h) Evercore Partners
i) Greenhill & Co.
j) Rothschild
k) Lazard
l) Houlihan Lokey
m) Harris Williams
n) William Blair
o) Robert W. Baird
p) Moelis & Co.
q) Piper Jaffray
r) Broadpoint Gleacher
s) Thomas Weasel
t) Imperial Capital
List them or put MM/ boutique next to the letter. Thank you. (If I forgot any important names, sorry)
Let the war begin!
OP, I don't think many people will agree with UBS being BB anymore. Middle Market is anything below BB. Boutique tends to be fairly small or regional. This topic has been beat into the ground.
Wells Fargo is a lesser BB. RBS is now owns Citizens so I would also rank them as BB, but not some investment banking power house.
looks like pretty much all of those are described as MM except for: lazard greenhill gleacher moelis evercore
edit: yeah, yo ushould just use the search option for this, like the guy above said
Try again -- Rothschild is most definitely not MM.
I'm pretty sure Wells Fargo is not Middle Market, though they have a middle market group.
"Wells Fargo's average deal size has historically been around $1 billion. "
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000538221&fid=9…
Wells Fargo is also 7th for 3Q and 12th for 4Q M&A for United States, both times above CS and UBS; along with top 10 in debt/equity and levfin.
Most would say its a bottom BB for United States only, since it has almost 0 international presence.
AnthonyD1982, didn't mean to start an all out war. I combed over the WSO forums, and still found there was no consensus for MM as there was for BB. In addition, many firms have changed in just the past year alone (UBS, WF, RBC, RBS, Jefferies). I look forward to what the street has to say.
WF is BB, as is UBS.
RBS is not MM but not BB.
RBC is MM, but not in Canada.
Jefferies is MM, but not its healthcare.
I hope I cleared some stuff up.
boutiquebank4life, Thank you.
anthony deserves a star, ubs is definitely not bb anymore, they do crappy 200 mil deals and are horrible culture with people being fired and entire groups leaving. crumbling ship.
I'm amazed that this thread has been open for almost an hour and the trolls haven't chimed in with the PJ hate.
Don't jinx it.
OP, no problem and I see your point, I think this board could continue forever and we would never come to a consensus on which banks are MM/Boutique/BB except for a few exceptions. I think the landscape will change in 3-5 years as government regulation sets in and reorganizations are completed.
AnthonyD1982, Completely agree. The investment banking landscape is dynamic and will continue to change in the next 24-36 months.
I have seen the WSO forums saying WF>RBC>RBS, AND the debate between RBC and Citi, AND how much Jefferies has expanded in the past year. I guess I'm trying to figure out (from a BB employee perspective), if an individual wasn't able to secure a BB FT offer, what's the next best alternative (top ~7 firms after BB)? Your input would be greatly appreciated.
Wells is a solid bank, just wasn't a huge IB presence. This will probably change now with the Wachovia acquisition. RBS is going through issues since it is a UK based bank. RBC is MMKT, but strong presence in Canada.
If you don't get a BB go for MM or anything IB that you can get. You can always put in a couple years solid experience and then transition to something larger, etc. If you go smaller make sure to use your time building a networking and keeping current.
I think you should go where you are happy. I am probably taking my ubs offer for internship but a friend of mine is turning it down for a lesser known bank. Its about you and your preferences.
Anthony: Would you agree UBS is still BB in asia though even if not in US?
I think UBS is fine. They have a lot of bad press going on, but who cares. If you have a choice between JPM and UBS I would pick JPM, but everyone freaks out as if working for UBS is the kiss of death. It isn't as if anyone is being recruited to be the CEO and would sustain reputation risk.
I think UBS in Asia is fine, but I don't work in IB so my opinion has no real weight behind it.
sagent - mm or lower tier boutique depending on how you look at it
brown brothers harriman( probably spelled it wrong)
UBS is probably still consider a BB in Asia, they're one of the few with some significant presence in China.
-ABN AMRO? I thought they've been bought out by RBS -How about the other Canadian shops? TD, BMO, Scotia? not all that big in US, MM? -Big four's advisory group? Deloitte FAS, KPMG corporate finance? Not exactly sure about their deal flow and presence in US, I believe I saw KPMG actually cracking the league table once
I think the only canadian shop with a U.S. presence is RBC, and it is purely middle market.
Big 4 does not apply here. TAS is not considered traditional IBD.
Thats incorrect, TD Securities hire people for IB and trading into their NY office, so they do have a "presence", its just a matter of how big.
Im talking about Big 4's corporate finance, not TAS, as far i know, art of FAS and KPMG'S coprorate finance do conduct in real MM work, not just the DD
Even Scotia has people in NY but the fact is that RBC is the only Canadian bank that sources and leads deals in the U.S. from its NY office. Or, to put it this way: You wouldn't really want to work as a junior-level employee for Scotia NY or TD NY.
BMO Capital Markets has a definite presence in the US, too, as a top MM. They're based out of Chicago (healthcare is in NY+Boston, and I think their energy is in Houston).
Big 4 has both TAS and corp fin departments (traditional IBD). Deloitte Corp Fin actually has a pretty strong presence in the MM and typically ranks ~25 in vault (even though that means absolutely nothing).
yea what he said lol
they have a presence, yes, but "top" mm is definitely a bit of a stretch for bmo.
I would have to agree with brisbane and twilightgirl. I had a FT IBD (NY) Superday interview with BMO CM and it was not what I expected for a "top" MM. Great culture though.
^^^Ditto. They have a strong MM corporate lending presence in Chicago, but they are not a big player in the MM out of NY. They pay like they're top, though.
And yes, I have heard good things about the culture. One of my friends had a superday with them and liked the people a lot, although he didn't accept the offer.
-BMO is good bank (especially in Canada) but they don't compare to RBC within the U.S. and I also heard they pay well for a MM
-Despite the press and financial results, UBS should be considered a BB bank especially if people are considering WF a lower BB (don't see much on high profile M&A deals but have solid foundation on doing debt financing - mainly because they are a large commercial bank and can leverage their balance sheet), I personally don't see them as a BB but that is my own personal opinion and from what I have seen and heard on the street. People on WSO seem to be in favor of them recently because they are hiring a lot of undergrads (FT and SA) since they did not recruit last summer
-Rothschild had a great year in regards to U.S. M&A volume so I'm not sure where they are at on the list
I think both WF and UBS are both BB's, they do the same deals together with other BB's and are ranked around the same.
What do you guys think about Macquarie? Are they australian only? What are interviews like?
Isn't Rothschild European mostly? I've never seen any deals they do in U.S.
fembotma: Just curious , what large deals have you seen WF on with other BB for it be ranked around the same as UBS (UBS has been on a number of high profile deals - NBC/Comcast to just name one despite their bad rep) and I do believe that UBS is ranked within the top 10.
Also, Macquarie has a U.S. presence/have significantly grown in the past few years - i know a few interns from last summer and they seem to enjoy it there. From what I have heard, they seem to be having a huge push to expand outside of their Australian market. Prob a good place to be down the road. Do you have an interview with them?
boutiquebank4life: Yes you are right, Rothschild is mostly European and I know they ranked quite high for global M&A but I swore I saw them high on U.S. as well, but I can be wrong.
My 1st round FT IBD (U.S.) went awful. I really wanted to knock the interview out of the park, but it didn't happen. It was a phone interview and the VP/MD woman had such a thick Australian accent I could barely hear the question through my cell phone. They also had me on speaker phone, which echoed everything.
Other than that, I only screwed up on 1 question. VP/MD - "So, can you tell me some deals Macquarie has been on?" Me - "Nope"
I knew I screwed up. My advice, landline phone and get to a Bloomberg terminal.
hahahaha, sorry man, better luck next time. My friend said the same thing about the accent and echoing in the phone when he interviewed there
same thing happened to me too. the lady was the head HR lady btw- but yes, super echo-ey phone connection and thick aussie accent made for an awkward interview.
as for recent deals- just mention how they've worked alongside their infrastructure fund in acquiring the chicago/indiana tollroads
How about citi?
IB1789: JPM/WF did the Berkshire $8 billion in order for them to buy Burlington http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-04/berkshire-hathaway-to-offer…
Recent ones: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9D5PN4O2.htm http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=9729343, http://www.marketwatch.com/story/americredit-announces-600-million-seni…
Ones I don't have links for are Sprint/Virgin, Blackstone acquiring DJO 1.6 bil, Walmart, Timewarner 9+ bil, Morton's LBO, etc.
Both banks are great and are usually top 10 to top 15 in M&A.
Comrise: I did not question if WF does a lot of debt financing work cause I know they do a lot. The conversation before was referring to being financial advisers on M&A deals (I am aware of the ones you mentioned). In summary, WF is a great bank and it will continue to grow and should be a great place down the road.
"3. What is the difference in angles between the hour and second hand on a clock at a quarter past 3."
Isn't this a S&T question? I think this thread is about investment banking and I doubt they ask brainteasers or math problems for IBD.
boutique bank, do you work in the industry or have you even done a single banking interview? i've been asked that exact question multiple times, including at bb's. if you dont have knowledge on a subject, dont try to give advice, and especially dont try to contradict someone who's fucking stating the questions he got in an actual interview.
I work at a boutique, before that I worked in non-IBD so no I didn't get the traditional BB interviews. I do have friends though who all got 3 financial statements, depreciation, and other such technical questions without these angle questions.
I'm not questioning him getting those questions, I'm asking if they are for S&T. Chill out.
OK, OK Lets get back on track. A new forum was just posted on RBC Capital Markets. Since there has been some discussion on Canadian Banks, I do have some questions
1) What are the "best" groups at RBC ? My guess: Industry - Mining and Metal b/c it's a Canadian Bank, Product - No clue, maybe M&A
2) RBC CM website doesn't seem to have a DCM group. They do have a High Yield Capital Markets group. Is this their LevFin group? If so, then what's their LevFin group (see links below). I'm just trying to separate their DCM (average investment grade stuff) from their High Yield. Can someone checkout the links and provide some thoughts? https://www.rbccm.com/highyieldcapitalmarkets/cid-204658.html https://www.rbccm.com/syndicatedfinance/cid-206915.html
On a different note, what are total size and best groups at the following: Evercore Partners, Broadpoint Gleacher, and Imperial Capital.
haha, I can just feel the stress of interviewing from the last few comments. But to backup twilightgirl, IBD do ask brainteasers, math problems, etc. to interviewees (mostly toward non-target kids though). However, most of the brainteasers can be answered if you do some researching online, reading vault and WSO guides. Words of wisdom, spend more time on tech and behavioral questions, because there is a greater chance that they won't even cover brainteasers.
Good luck with interviews everybody!
What about Nomura? Doesn't it even qualify amongst the MM?
ubs is the worst mm on here, having worked there I can tell you the exit ops are horrendous now
FUBS, you obviously got FIRED and tossed out on your ass (or got rejected before they even let you in the door) so of course you think getting tossed out on your ass is a horrible exit oppty
I'd say the exit oppt'ys are the exact same as at GS, MS, etc as so long as you have one of those banks on your resume and you have deal experience, the same firms will interview you ... then if you are a bad ass they will hire you; if you are a dumb ass like yourself, they wont
Period.
Nothing personal, but you are a TROLL and the type that we are trying to extinguish from this site.
Anyone with ME ... like UBS or not, which I could care less about.
I know there has been a brief discussion on this before, but what are your guys' thoughts on Keybanc Capital Markets? Does anyone have any idea on their comp (especially year end bonuses for analysts), culture, exit opps etc? This is assuming you are in one of the traditional IB groups like M&A, Private Placements or an industry focused group.
Keybanc is very middle market, and capital markets gets a bad rep here. I would look for a boutique first.
Anyone who thinks UBS is a MM is a Moron, they are still BB guys, believe me
I agree, UBS is definitely still BB, people love to rip on them now cause they are in the same boat as Citi.
krishsuraj: in regards to Nomura, they are definitely working hard to expand in the U.S. and globally, especially picking up Lehman's asian operations. So they are prob a good bank to look out for down the road. Do you have an interview there?
BTW: what are people's thought on Harris Williams. I have one buddy there and it seems that they are quite busy and a good percentage of deals they pitch turn live. But I also heard that they service the lower MM in order to maintain their momentum of live deals
That's quite interesting to see that some companies are considered as BB, while others are bashed in the US while it's completely different in Europe. For instance, in the UK/France/Switzeland UBS is no longer seen as a BB, their results are poor and they keep on axing jobs. Someone working in M&A for UBS told me a few day ago that we should not mix what it used to be (UBS LA or UBS London) with what it currently is.
Nobody talked about HSBC, how are they considered in the US? Because their deal flow is pretty low in Europe.
By the way, if someone is interested in a list of European MM and boutiques, do not hesitate to send me a PM.
^^ Camondo, what??? If anything I would think they are much stronger in Europen than the US. In league tables they rank #5, #6 or higher in Europe and thats definietely BB stuff. They just posted first quaterly profit since a over a year and the new CEO is the guy who turned around CS.
And on the 'UBS is in the same boat as Citi' - well, no. The Swiss government sucked in $50B of crappy mortgages without saying a word, no strings attached. The Swiss just don't care, theyre rich.
I had a look to the League Tables and you're right for their current ranking in Europe. Perhaps, it was even better before, dunno. But I apologize for this mistake or misinterpretation of what my friend told me.
I worked for ubs, they are ok in europe, better in asia. But they are definitely not bb like Anthony said in the US anymore. They do crap deals and ranked always 13-15 in leagues in US. I can't believe losing healthcare that was stupid and all my friends trying toleave, no exit ops.
First lets be sure we are not looking at this from an M&A point of view - sure that is the sexy product but most of the revenues come from the other products
In addition - if you are talking US vs. world there are two different answers.... an example is Rothschild - they have a great brand here in the US and do a good number of deals - but in Europe one could argue they are a better brand than Goldman
These are all BB
Bank of America/Merrill Lynch Barclays Capital Citi Credit Suisse Deutsche Bank Goldman Sachs JPMorgan Morgan Stanley UBS - I see arguement for this but come on - they lost their HC group but they are still strong globally - they are on the Cadbury deal, Porsche/VW, almost EVERY bank financing.... def still BB
What about Middle Markets? What about Boutiques?
a) Well Fargo/Wachovia (not sure if they are top MM or bottom BB?) - Wachovia helps and they are probably more BB due to pure size and balance sheet but they will not get the deals (or at least be lead left) that the other guys will for some time
b) RBC Capital Markets (I know BB in Canada, but are they considered top MM in U.S?) - They have a quality energy group (probably directly related to being a Canadian bank) - other than that I would say mostly MM
c) RBS (no clue where they stand anymore) - scary place to be - they are currently making investments in traditional banking, mercahnt acquiring, things like this... They were on a couple of auto deals but they are never really lead book runner - So i would say MM
d) BNP Paribas - making a BIG push into S&T - would still call them a MM player
e) ABN AMRO - acquired by RBS
f) HSBC - MM - against focus is on traditional banking
g) Jefferies (once considered boutique, where do they stand now? Lower or top MM?) - BB for healthcare - no doubt there - they have closed a sick amount of deals since Lorello and team showed up - building a strong Media group but I would say MM (other than the HC group which is prob top 3 on the street)... as an aside - i think by marketcap they are now the largest pure play Ibank in the US correct?
h) Evercore Partners - they are on almost EVERY big deal lately.... MM right now but I would say (as per the discussion of dynamic firms above that they are one that will eventually be BB
i) Greenhill & Co. - See Evercore - not as many big deals but they are one to watch
j) Rothschild - Big Boy - I would say they are BB (definately are in Europe)
k) Lazard - MM but another bank that stands to grow significantly in this climate
l) Houlihan Lokey - great restructuring group - but that doesnt make you BB - def MM
m) Harris Williams - Go to their website - all they talk about is middle market - and they do own it - PNC's IBanking arm kills it by doing mostly sell side deals - Def MM
Those are the ones I think I can comment on
Hope that helps!
Ummm Evercore, Lazard and GHL are "elite" boutiques that most people would take over any BB except GS/MS.
^agreed. nucci i think most would agree with your 9BBs, but I think you are misunderstanding what middle market is. sure, lazard/gh/evercore complete a substantial quantity of mm deals but they also compete for the biggest deals. jefferies (outside of hc), hlhz, and harris williams are mm as they never compete for the largest transactions
May be a stupid question, and I apologize if it is...
But what is the difference between an 'elite' boutique and a BB (if they arent MM as stated above)..
From what I thought, BB > MM > elite Boutique > Boutique..... but from what it seems: elite boutique > MM... so why are they not considered BB??
Just looking to clarify.
Great post nucci3220.
"I'd say the exit oppt'ys are the exact same as at GS, MS, etc as so long as you have one of those banks on your resume and you have deal experience, the same firms will interview you ... then if you are a bad ass they will hire you; if you are a dumb ass like yourself, they wont"
UBS definitely doesn't have the same exit ops as GS/MS. Comparable, yes. But, certainly not the same. I think the general consensus is that there are two tiers of BBs with GS/MS (and possibly JPM) sitting on top and the rest occupying the lower tier. If we are talking megafund PE, it's pretty clear where they are gonna look first to recruit. It's not to say that UBS won't place well, but I'm sure everyone would agree that GS/MS is a much better place to be.
BB is easy. After that, it gets a little tricky. The investment banking landscape is (since 2008) and will continue to change in the next 24-36 months.
I have seen the WSO forums saying WF>RBC>RBS, AND the debate between RBC and Citi, AND how much Jefferies has expanded in the past year. I guess I'm trying to figure out (from a BB and MM employee perspective), if an individual wasn't able to secure a BB FT offer, what's the next best alternative (top ~7 firms after BB)? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Think UBS, WF, RBC, RBS, BNP, HSBC, Jefferies, Lazard, Evercore.
hungry, don't bother. i've advised many ubs people through my PM box and they know I'm legit. I worked there and it sucked. I don't need to respond to some slammaster troll who never had a job in banking. If you want to know the real deal about UBS just PM me. Look at their past placement. It is just as bad as MM banks. Go to Citi/DB/WF instead if you have the chance. i would even go to a few middle market shops over it.
ihatetaxes stop repeating the same post over and over. You should get an offer and look at your options after, which is what I did. Even if I end up going to UBS I'm going to b happy because not many students from my school even get to do banking and its only a summer internshpi, who knows I may end up in goldman or jpm for fulltime.
what people say on a forum doesn't affect my life and it shouldn't affect yours either. just do well and even if you are at a noname bank everyone with good experience and hard work can move to a better place or exit decently well, which is what all ex-bankers tell me who are more knowledgable than the trolls on this site.
also i hope you know Lazard, Evercore, WF, UBS are better than RBC, BNP, Jefferies, RBS, HSBC. especially lazard and evercore are a lot better than some of the top BB's even. I know a kid taking lazard over morgan stanley.
fembota, for once you actually make some fucking sense
for the fucking retards that think that the world is GS / MS, i hate to say i tbut you are just plain wrong
i'm not saying that there is not a better brand to those names for some purposes, but in terms of second year / third year exits, there is NO difference
and don't give me some bullshit like i don't know what I'm talking about, because if you are so moronic to actually think that KKR is going to turn down a kid form UBS to see a guy from GS, you are lost
what matters is you are at a firm that did deals, and that you worked on them
GS ain't that much better than UBS as an analyst
as an MD / Partner it is much different
but what makes an analyst or a third year opportunity is the man / woman behind the resume and when that person shows up for the interview (which you would BOTH get, believe me) the stronger banker will win the job EVERY time
people at KKR, Blackstone, etc, etc. laugh at mere GS or UBS bankers at all levels, trust me
Great discussion over here regarding the Middle Market Investment Banks and importance out towards the marketing and example you have provided regarding the Middle Market Investment Banks would be an awesome one..
For 2010 - U.S. Completed >500M by value (excluding BBs):
1.) Lazard 2.) Evercore 3.) Jefferies 4.) Blackstone 5.) Greenhill 6.) Tudor Pickering 7.) HLHZ 8.) PWP 9.) Centerview 10.) HSBC ... not sure if they are BB 11.) Allen & Co. 12.) Guggenheim 13.) Miller Buckfire 14.) RBC 15.) Rothschild
For 2010 - U.S. Completed 50M-500M by # of deals (excluding BBs): ... I was too lazy to re-order
1.) HLHZ 2.) Jeffereies 3.) Lazard 4.) KBW 5.) RBC 6.) Moelis 7.) William Blair 8.) Sandler O'Neil 9.) Raymond James 10.) Macquarie 11.) PNC 12.) Lincoln International 13.) Stifel 14.) Baird 15.) Tudor Pickering
Didn't really read through this thread but you threw in a ton of elite boutiques in here..
If you knew how to read, you would see it says "excludes BBs." I never said, nor was I intending, to exlude elite boutiques.
hey, thanks for this list, by chance is there a 2012 one?
see link: http://www.bloomberg.com/professional/files/2013/01/MA-Financial-Rankin…
aww, thanks!
i would ignore the term "middle market" because it could mean anything. this is the way i would break down the investment bank universe:
-BBs -elite boutiques: Blackstone, Lazard, Greenhill, PWP, Evercore, Centerview, Moelis (semi-elite) -other major players: Jefferies, RBC, Wells Fargo, Houlihan (restructuring only) -everything else: regional/mediocre boutiques, specialty firms, non-major IBDs of large foreign banks, etc.
this can change significantly depending on the market (rothschild = elite boutique in europe, nomura = BB in japan, etc.) but this is what the industry looks like in the US.
ABN AMRO and Houlihan are hard to break into
Any Mid-Market I-Bankers on here? (Originally Posted: 04/30/2007)
Anyone on this board doing i-banking at a MM place like Wachovia, Jeffries, England & Company, FBR, etc.? Do people only go to these places if they cannot land an I-banking gig at a BB or is that not the case at all?
I'm going into MM IB outside NYC. Probably could have gone BB, but family situation dictated otherwise. Most of the people I know who aren't gunning for BB are looking to go somewhere else besides NYC, usually for family reasons. The rest couldn't land BB.
or for cost of living/lifestyle reasons. I have friends who work in charlotte, atlanta, texas for that reason.
what kind of banks do they work for in atlanta?
suntrust. i know ppl who did consulting there too
wtf is england & company
what do you guys think of mid-market groups in BB? i guess it's the latest trend..
well the margins are better
the work/life is better because there isn't a huge revenue machine to feed. Salary is comparable, and although there might be a discount on the bonus, its probably offset by cost of living. As long as the bank has a balance sheet with relationships to leverage, there ought to be enough work to stay busy. Theoretically.
From what I hear it's usually feast or famine. If there's a pitch / live deal you're going to be working on it all day & night because you don't have the resources that a BB does in order to do things quickly (i.e. research, other industry/product teams, India). If there's no pitches / live deals, which happens a lot, then you're playing minesweeper.
MM IBD (Originally Posted: 01/20/2014)
12
Jr summer?
a
So Raymond James?
So SunTrust ?
b
Do you have any idea what you would be doing at Morgan Stanley IMD?
Researching and analyzing financial information relating to specific companies and investments; creating reports and summaries from the analyzed financial data; conducting company and investment level due diligence activities and developing financial models and investment committee materials; evaluating existing investment portfolios and recommending changes in investment plans; and keeping up to date with market developments, new investment products and all other areas that can affect the markets, such as movements in the economies of relevant countries.
If you see yourself doing banking or PE long-term, I think the IB offer is your best bet. Obviously, MS looks nice on the resume, but the best preparation for IB/PE is banking. If you are more interested in doing IM/HF Portfolio Mgmt long-term, take the IMD offer.
Overall, I think the IB offer gives you more exit opps, considering SunTrust is a reputable firm in the south, so you will be able to exit to a regional MM PE shop or lateral to another bank on the east coast.
What do you want to do in the long run?
MM IBD and banks, other (Originally Posted: 12/16/2013)
.
If you want to do IBD, obviously do the MM IBD...
.
If we're talking Jefferies, William Blair, Piper, Harris Williams, etc, this is the dumbest question of the year.
If we're talking one of those no-name "MM" banks, you'll have to clarify. I'd take a no-name boutique over shitty risk any day though.
What if it was something like BB ECM or DCM type roles instead of IB risk?
Fine, I'll just delete this then.
MM ibanks (Originally Posted: 08/24/2008)
I know much about these middle market firms has been discussed, but given the currect market condition, which one would you pick, Harris Williams or Lazard Middle Market?
thanks in advance.
Thoughts?
How about Houlihan Lokey? It's a respectful MM firm, too and also, they have a Minneapolis office.
Porsche, I think I recall you asking a similar question about a year ago. Hopefully recruiting went well for you then and continues to go well. The reality is, you can't go wrong with either Harris Williams or Lazard Middle Market.
Harris Williams' Minneapolis office is still only a few years old and rather small. That said, the head of the office is the ex-head of M&A at Piper which leads me to believe that HW has stolen a lot of Piper's market share over the last couple years. Great name and great place to work, but you'll be fighting for only 1 or 2 spots.
Lazard Middle Market obviously bears the name "Lazard," but given that it was not a homegrown operation, I think many still see it as Goldsmith so you won't have the same exit ops as you would under the "true" Lazard name. Still, it would be a good experience and I would place them near the top of my list (in MN).
agree, hw and goldsmith are solid places to start a career in the mm. piper has fallen off (hw taking their former head of m&a says something about that).
im not too sure about houlihan in the minn office. as a whole, the firm is respected and has a great presence in the mm, but ive heard its quite a chop shop.
the houlihan ceo is in minneapolis
Pretty sure HLHZ is based in So. California.... a far cry from Minneapolis
One is based in LA and the other in Minneapolis
wannabemonkee - i didn't say HL was based in minneapolis. i just said that the ceo was (well co-ceo to be exact). werbalowsky is in minneapolis.
Quia ullam qui occaecati. Est nemo sunt accusantium accusantium quod ab aut. Eos sed sed odit aut eveniet quia rerum. Debitis animi officia quis iste mollitia. Amet aut voluptatem nulla ut atque doloribus enim inventore.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Veniam ea aut nam quo voluptas. Optio natus est ut doloribus sed id.
Deleniti numquam suscipit et suscipit qui aut. Nihil ullam sunt temporibus velit excepturi quibusdam nulla. Et est iusto omnis voluptatibus. Dolor et corporis deleniti est deleniti doloribus quo nulla. Sunt modi aliquid molestias rerum perferendis. Non voluptatem veritatis numquam quam minima doloremque ipsam.
Ea ut tenetur quasi veniam ipsam voluptas. Voluptatum consequuntur eos dolores cumque sed soluta. Qui ipsam aspernatur distinctio voluptas quaerat accusamus libero. Fugiat necessitatibus hic pariatur facere enim dicta. Nemo vero saepe beatae perferendis numquam. Deleniti quis officiis est et.
Fuga aperiam aut minus officiis culpa veritatis dolores. Placeat ea autem similique quibusdam esse harum dolores explicabo. Rerum aut doloribus deserunt voluptate qui tenetur aut.
Voluptatem ipsam provident accusantium est. Voluptatem omnis ut atque dicta maxime impedit aperiam. Ea minima qui dolores sed velit. Veritatis hic quis veniam corrupti sit aut cumque. Magnam rerum consequatur eos laborum voluptatem earum. Rerum ut magni voluptate molestiae.
Unde consequatur perferendis temporibus tenetur dolor dolor. Corporis non possimus aut est. Accusamus repudiandae ut quo quis laborum ullam ut natus. Rerum ratione esse corporis enim quis aliquam.
Repellat voluptatum animi eos sed quas aperiam. Voluptatem voluptatibus ipsam numquam repellat ut earum quia. Consequatur quam quam reiciendis placeat.
Assumenda ut non magni et magnam. Dolorum hic quisquam ad numquam. Quae sunt earum sed ducimus rem explicabo. Autem eum magni cumque odit cumque ut enim. At beatae et minus repellendus voluptatem.
Iste sed ipsa eaque porro voluptas voluptatem aut. Aliquid consequatur laudantium fugit deleniti. Enim similique nihil quae ab consectetur reprehenderit. Officiis natus quidem qui inventore.
Alias nisi aliquam iste qui est id necessitatibus. Aspernatur possimus ullam illum eaque accusantium eum. Veniam non expedita exercitationem corrupti ab. Sapiente delectus quia id hic earum. Qui neque molestias voluptatum veritatis dolores enim.
Ipsam repudiandae quidem ut dolorem aspernatur incidunt ipsa velit. Nulla omnis illo libero. Id omnis non unde aliquam fuga. Iure ullam non similique nobis dolorem et repellat.
Debitis itaque aperiam provident tempora. Corporis dicta nulla sed vel.
Magnam sed ea quia harum harum nobis. Optio veniam sapiente sed ea et quibusdam dolor. Amet non consequuntur nostrum quo voluptatibus repellendus.