Analyst without internship at a big bank?

I'd like to hear what do you think about my position:

Let's proceed in order:

I got my eyes on the investment banking sector this autumn. Had to admit that before that I have been...unactive. Meaning that I got exceptional marks and used to read a lot, but didn't care enough about what i would do after the university.

Thus I was clearly unprepared about the selections for summer internships and didn't receive any offer.

I became more and more interested in this sector and I am learning a lot about it. I will therefore apply for analyst position next autumn. But i'd like to know if have chances, given the fact that banks are recruiting less, and will most likely recruit from their own summer analysts (as a few of them told me...anyone can confirm this?)

Luckily, I fared very good at a business challenge for a boutique italian bank (scored in the first 30...the table is not pubblished yet, I may be that I am first or 30th, although I was sixt at the preliminary stage). Thus they will offer me an internship.

From the beginning of September i will be in Finland for as exchange student. What should I do in the meanwhile? Take the GMAT? Take an interest on the stock market or the forex and trade for my own? Try to overcome the extreme stiffness of my university and found an economy club (that may be more difficult than getting a job at GoldmanSachs, ok. There are only political clubs at my university...crazy and fanatic people).

 

It's hard to comment on your situation unless you get a bit more specific regarding your stats, etc. Also, I'm having a hard time understanding your role with this Italian bank. They're offering you a position based on your placing in a business challenge? What the hell is a business challenge?

If you have some prior banking experience, then you should have a decent shot during full time recruiting in the fall, as most of your competition will not. That said, if you are in Finland I have no clue when you'd plan to interview.

As far as what you are doing now...I dunno, maybe try contacting some banks that interest you and find out about their fall recruiting schedule (might be a bit early but if you are serious about this and will be out of the country you may want to start planning). I don't see what taking the GMAT would do for you, and if you have no interest in the markets yet then you may want to reconsider your interest in investment banking. I suppose you could start a club, but it has to be somewhat late in the semester for such a thing.

 

Replying in order: -As only yesterday the names of the first 30 were pubblished, I haven't yet contacted the bank, in order to see in what division I could do the internship. A business challenge, at least in the italian/european(?) sense, means an online simulation of the management of a company, followed by another simulation, in teams, as the finals. This bank offers internship to the first 30...they view this as something innovative (according to them if you made it in the first 30, and you are interested in the internship, you are fit for it. Not my role to judge on that decision). Will have more information in a week.

-I am taking it as if you thing that in Finland they don't know what investment banking is? seems strange, but nonetheless, if they want to interview me, I will fly.

-Who said that I have interest in the markets? The point is, do I feel confident enough, given my skills and my access to information, to risk my money?

I am fully open for other opinions and suggestions.

 

1) Did you have an internship at a bank already? It sounds like you haven't.

Without a previous internship, working full-time at a bank will be VERY difficult. A few years ago it was easier to do this and I had friends who did, but nowadays hiring is just too restricted to count on this.

2) When is this potential banking internship? Is it during the summer? If so, you need to do it. Even if it's at a boutique, you need it.

3) Being in Finland matters because you typically interview for full-time jobs in the fall. Obviously people in Finland know what banking is; that's not the issue. Studying abroad, however, will make it more difficult to get banking jobs because you'll be on a different schedule.

 

1) No, I am at my penultimate year of the undergraduate. I have no work experience. (that can be documented, it is. I have been giving lessons in mathematics and statistics to other students, but that hardly counts as work experience 2) During the summer, 3 months.

3)I have to admit am unclear on the meaning of "....will make it more difficult to get banking jobs because you'll be on a different schedule."

 

You should probably take the internship at the Italian bank, but that really depends on what other options you have, of course. If it's somewhat related to what you want to do in the future, it will be a great experience and will help you in FT recruitment.

If you are planning to apply to banks in London for FT, you will be able to fill out the online application forms just like everyone else, and the banks will fly you to London for the interviews. Being in Finland won't be a problem.


"It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879)

"Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire à quelqu'un." - Samivel

-------------------- "It is a fine thing to be out on the hills alone. A man can hardly be a beast or a fool alone on a great mountain." - Francis Kilvert (1840-1879) "Ce serait bien plus beau si je pouvais le dire à quelqu'un." - Samivel
 

Ah, well, your suggestion confirmed my idea: I'll take the internship at that bank, whatever it is. There are no other options (here in Italy, internships at banks for undergraduates are rarer than diamonds.

The point is, with my non-target school, not big bank internship, and given the bad season for recruiting that 2008 will most likely be, do I have reasonable chances to get a full-time job in London?

 

As has been stated, it will be very difficult. One of the big things you need to do now is network and try to get your foot in the door.

 

From my experience you should be fine. a friend of mine did not get an offer at a regional ibank where he interned (typically looked down upon by NY), but ended up with an offer at a BB, albeit with alumni support. As for me, i didn't even do banking after my junior year, but throughout senior year networked hard and landed a corp fin/banking position at a well known (within finance) bank. It is all about how you spin your story.

 

Sorry to say it, but you're going to need some solid relationships if you want to break into this field. However, you might want to look at smaller shops and mid-market banks. The bulges are flooded with students with the typical banker resume.

 

Unless you have someone pulling for you, your GPA won't make the cut for first round interviews. Realistically, maybe go do TFA for 2 years, get a MBA, and then go into IB.

 

let's formulate it more general.. is it likely to be invited to an interview at an BB IB for a fulltime position , if one has no previous M&A experience, but a high GPA, adequate majors/specializations and internships from well-known institutions outside IB?

 

Are you planning to apply for Vienna, Frankfurt or London?

At least in London, WU isn't considered as a real target. In Frankfurt, your university doesn't matter that much. Although HSG, WHU, EBS and Mannheim are kind of target universities, it is absolutely possible to score a BB or elite boutique internship coming from normal public universities with a decent profile (good grades, leadership stuff, relevant internships). However, your lack of relevant internship experience might be a problem but I think you will get invited at some places if the rest of your profile is top notch. In regard of Vienna, I have no clue about recruiting.

 

Banan, did you have any SA positions?

The difference between successful people and others is largely a habit - a controlled habit of doing every task better, faster and more efficiently.
 

I can't speak for IBD, but I but I landed a FT consulting offer from a non-target non-business background without an SA position. My only prior experience was a sales internship for a small (

 

I go to a non target, worked back office internship at a BB, networked with tons of alumni on the street (Who all the said the internship was great since it had the brand name), and most tried to help. The economy was/is so bad that most classes were filled from summer interns this past summer, and I'm still searching (graduating senior). Try to get an IB internship. It will help. Some places rejected me because I had no previous IB experience.

good luck man.

 
BBParty:

As long as you fix whatever is holding you back from getting offers now and you get some some decent finance experience over the summer you'll be fine. Worked for me. Sometimes rejection / failure is a good wake up call.

This is the best advice anyone could give you. I went through the same struggles before finally getting a full time offer. Assuming you made it to some interviews, reach out to the interviewers and get feedback about your interview and how to improve. Then actually take the time practicing and using the advice. These people can also turn out to become a contact when full time recruitment rolls around.

Still try to find a finance internship so that you can have something to talk about in future interviews (a boutique business apprasial/business valuation firm worked for me since the technicals were similar to an extent). Not sure where are but if there are any local boutiques around offer to work for free. Make sure you stay in contact with the people you have in your network currently and update them on what you are doing. It will be an uphill battle without IB experience but it is definitely doable if you commit to it. Good luck to you!

 

The next best roles would be likely be PE or HF (there are a lot of small shops that may hire you on). As for the process, it is a lot less structured. A lot of hires (Especially at BBs) are often done through accelerated superdays in August where you have to have a contact throw you resume in the stack. Banks will come to campus, but that is just to fill random needs and it is very competitive (more than usual). You should focus on junior level bankers more than HR and senior bankers. Junior bankers often head up a groups recruiting and select resumes. Senior bankers can get your resume picked, too. I have never hear of HR doing anything but referring you to the website. And it is possible to get a FT offer without a SA as long as you interned somewhere somewhat related and have a strong background, it is just tough.

 

@kedwards33 I am in NYC so there are a number of boutiques around. I do find reaching out to them is pretty hard though as it's difficult to find someone who works there, let alone their contact information. And many do not take interns (at least according to their websites). Still I am going to be trying pretty hard, but are you suggesting work as an SA for free? I don't think I can afford to do that.

@TGICapitalism We have some OCR and a few MM banks do come but I don't want to bank on that and really want to work at a BB

 

have seen it happen but the instances are few and far between, usually those who get it were from top 5-10 schools and did something impressive that summer even though it wasnt in banking (mckinsey, google, MF PE, top tier HF, corp dev at brand name company like GE, etc). better bust your ass networking this summer to make sure you get interviews since the first interviews to go out will be to current SAs (and there wont be many interviews to begin with)

side note: dont know why you wouldnt want to stay senior year - easily the best year of my life, cant imagine missing it to go to IBD a year earlier...

 

You're much better off aiming for an SA position, then informing the bank at the end of the summer that you want to start early. This kind of thing is far from uncommon. At the very least, you could take a semester off and start in December. That said, I don't recommend this path.

"For all the tribulations in our lives, for all the troubles that remain in the world, the decline of violence is an accomplishment we can savor, and an impetus to cherish the forces of civilization and enlightenment that made it possible."
 

A friend of mine went through this same decision. He did a SA during his 2nd year summer (thinking he would graduate in 3 years) but one of his MDs told him that he should stay another year and make the most of his experience in college. It allowed him to take a lot of different finance/random courses that turned out to be useful

 
  1. 4.0 GPA or (3.9)...maybe,
  2. You were virtually the interim president at your institution,
  3. A very precocious knowledge of the industry, market and excel - programs like Wall Street Prep are very helpful,
  4. A very, very, very good reason as to why you did not do an internship your entire collegiate career.
  5. I won't give you a rating. It depends on the bank and the type of position, but I think if you have these, you at least give yourself a shot...
"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 
vadremc:
1. 4.0 GPA or (3.9)...maybe, 2. You were virtually the interim president at your institution, 3. A very precocious knowledge of the industry, market and excel - programs like Wall Street Prep are very helpful, 4. A very, very, very good reason as to why you did not do an internship your entire collegiate career. 5. I won't give you a rating. It depends on the bank and the type of position, but I think if you have these, you at least give yourself a shot...

i cant tell if he is being serious

 

I think it is largely driven by the institution that you attend, the caliber of bank that you target and luck.

From discussions with friends who've received offers and looking at the rosters of those selected for first round interviews, academics are important, but it is unlikely that you'll be selected purely on those measures for the top two tier BB as you'll be competing against peers with similar academic credentials AND summer experience.

The best bet for them has been networking with alumni to gain first round interviews. They also tended to have pursued another career path very successfully and are just switching. For example, pre med building towards a phd in chemistry, but not enamored with lab work after spending the summer doing that and I'm looking to understand the business side of the pharma business, etc...

In the interviews you'll need to know exactly what banking is and why you want to pursue it, explain what turned you off your previous path relating the qualities to those desired for banking and meet the average interview technical skills for school - liberal arts easier than pre-business.

If you look up and down the industry, depending on your school and qualifications, I think you have a solid shot at obtaining interviews, and from then on the ball is in your court.

 
Daniel T Bush:
well i go to yale, my gpa isnt great (3.12), and i am not doing a summer because i have built a company and i will be selling it this summer. maybe if i can get my gpa up to 3.5 i will have a better shot.

Flame....Please don't fall into the trap.

 
Daniel T Bush:
well i go to yale, my gpa isnt great (3.12), and i am not doing a summer because i have built a company and i will be selling it this summer. maybe if i can get my gpa up to 3.5 i will have a better shot.

wow, how much will u be selling it for? are u the sole shareholder?

 

I am very serious. Think of it this way...

I know for a fact that Goldman, Lehman and JPMorgan like to hire from within (I worked for one of them...) What that means is that analysts who are coming in with exp from other BB's have to displace a candidate that they may be prepared to hire given the type of program and the number of candidates applying for the select slots...

Let's say you're applying for JP Morgan's entry level IB analyst program right? And you have no experience. Typically JP will extend offers to at least half of those summer analysts who choose to come back. It's a complete numbers game. By not having worked with that firm or any other BB on the street, you are at a disadvantage. Sure you've got your own company and you're selling it, but the fact remains that unless you can secure an interview and showcase a high finance aptitude in your rounds and demonstrate you're a quick learner, you're stock doesn't look so great.

3.5 from Yale, you'll get a look. If I were you, like the guy mentioned above, you have a great alumni base that you need to hound after. But you will still have to explain yourself. QQ: What's the selling price of your company? If I'm you, being very descriptive and HONEST in your role and the company's business on your resume in its origination, business plan, revenue generation etc. will certainly help but not completely save your cause. Take some of the terms and finance formulas from IB and see whether or not you can apply them to your own business.

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 

Little to no effect. The point is to show an intellectual parity b/t your current work and what you will be doing...

What's this "trap" business?

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 

Actually, there's still quite a chance for you to get in. Think about it. Internships are a lot more selective than FT positions. Therefore, even if they hire all their interns, which they don't usually, that still means that the entire analyst class is NOT filled up. Therefore they have to hire from the remaining candidates. I know plenty of people who did not have an internship but still got hired. Yet, getting an internship is the easiest way to get a FT offer. Now the only problem is actually getting an internship... ;)

 

I know I'm probably going to catch heat from Jimbo or any traders if they read this, but I think it may actually be easier to break into S&T with no work/intern exp than IB.

"Cut the burger into thirds, place it on the fries, roll one up homey..." - Epic Meal Time
 

I got a FT offer at a BB coming from a non-target without a summer internship on the street. I did do an internship for a very small financial firm in my home town the summer before and I have a strong GPA (Above 3.7 below 3.8) Talk to alumni, get your foot in the door, and if you get the interview its much less your resume, much more how you interview.

 
IBD07:
I got a FT offer at a BB coming from a non-target without a summer internship on the street. I did do an internship for a very small financial firm in my home town the summer before and I have a strong GPA (Above 3.7 below 3.8) Talk to alumni, get your foot in the door, and if you get the interview its much less your resume, much more how you interview.

Couldn't have put it better. The answer is yes you can. Although the odds are against you. Wall street uses the summers to field 80-85% of their analyst class. The next ~10% of the class comes from target schools. Its not easy but its possible, you have to know what you want and you cant give up. If you have any more in-depth questions send me a pm. Good luck!

 

Analyst at top-tier bank. I had no finance related internships, only some substantial academic work. I had a moderately good gpa (3.8) from a target school. Definitely got lucky.

Look, it never hurts to apply. Being on the other side of things I see how random recruiting can be.

 

about 2mm. o, tell your mom she has been absolutely excellent. all of those hardcore videos sold. man, i couldnt have done it without her. i have gotten some customer complaints though. it appears many dont like the sagging boobs.

 
Daniel T Bush:
about 2mm. o, tell your mom she has been absolutely excellent. all of those hardcore videos sold. man, i couldnt have done it without her. i have gotten some customer complaints though. it appears many dont like the sagging boobs.

oh BURNNNNNNNNNNNNN

 

You have a few options. You can network and get into a no-name boutique, either as an analyst or intern, and get IB get IB on your resume. You can also take another job, such as consulting or Big 4, and lateral into IB. Last route I can think of is working for a few years in another industry and getting in as an associate post MBA. Plenty of ways, just grind and you'll get there.

 

You have a few options. You can network and get into a no-name boutique, either as an analyst or intern, and get IB get IB on your resume. You can also take another job, such as consulting or Big 4, and lateral into IB. Last route I can think of is working for a few years in another industry and getting in as an associate post MBA. Plenty of ways, just grind and you'll get there.

 

Yes. There are many people who have broken in from utter non-target programs with worse GPAs then yours. At this point, networking is your strongest asset. Either find the few alumni who have made it themselves, or just get to know people. Leverage any connections you have at all, get in the door for informational interviews, pound the street until you have people who are willing to go to bat for you. That will get you past the HR screening (which you might fail for GPA or for school name), and once you're in for a first-round, it's entirely on who you are, not what school you're from.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

You can attempt to do some sort of IB internship in the fall. But going to FT IBD without prior IB internship experience is extremely tough and you'd be at a huge disadvantage. You may have to settle for trying to get into a regional boutique or go the MBA route and enter IB as an associate down the road.

 

I hate to sound negative, but the chance of you converting into FT are pretty much zero. You will be competing against kids with BB and top MM internships and hordes of kids with boutique internships. Why would a bank take a kid from assurance when they have piles of resumes from kids who have relevant experience?

That being said, this is not the end of the world if you really want to break in. I would suggest getting a fall internship at a boutique, going through FT recruiting, and then looking at MSFs (obviously only if FT recruiting does not work out). Also look at boutiques for FT and then look at lateraling. Good luck.

 

i never did an SA internship and i'll be working at a good bank this coming year. i did have very good grades, some internship experience which wasn't related to IB, and some interesting extracurrics.

it is very hard to get the interview if you don't have a SA internship, as it makes recruiters more likely to ignore your resume, but if you are persistent and are able to show that you have a very strong interest in banking, then it should make it easier.

 

It's obviously possible, but if you start removing summer jobs like S&T, M/B/B, PE, HF, even transaction services or corporate finance at fortune 500 firms it becomes harder I would imagine. If you aren't in any of these job types for the summer, perhaps you should ask more specifically about that.

 

I only have a Finance Internship at Lehman. Did a Ops gig at BlackRock.

Non-Target. Cum GPA is not solid (3.3) but my Post 1st year is a 3.8.

President of a Business Fraternity.

No chance? I wouldn't expect much anyways.

 

Maybe not at a BB in NYC, but seriously, if you want to break into the field, look to MM banks ALL over the country. People are all too focused on getting into a NY bank, even if their stats are not really that great (no offense).

Just looking at your stats, I'd say there are definitley some MM banks and no-name banks that you'd have a shot at (located in the midwest).

 

PleaseHireMe, if you are a senior next year you need to network your ass off this summer. You can probably get in somewhere but I wouldn't narrowly focus on BB's since a) your prior experience is all back office, b) you go to a non target, c) your grades are mediocore and d) the hiring slowdown.

You should have some good connects from your business fraternity, BlackRock and lehman, no?

 

I am able to get in touch with a handful of people in banking, but they are primarily analyst level, so I doubt they would be able to give much weight.

Ah either way, I will try my best to network and talk to higher ups. That's about the most I can do anyways.

Thanks for the tips.

 

I was in the same situation you are talking about. I got about 9 interviews when recruiting came along with no IB internships. I have to admit it was fairly difficult in my interviews because they constantly asked why I want to get into banking if I have absolutely no internships in IB. You can pull it off if you study hard to understand ll the technicals and come off strong. I made a fair amount of final rounds as well but the main reason why I never got an offer from what my interviews said was because compared to other candidates, all things equal, they just had IB internships to show more of an interested and more experience.

So is it possible to get interviews? yes but it's difficult Can you land a job? yes but know what your talking about

Given the information above I would strongly recommend you do get an internship though. After failing to land a full time job I have been working to get internships in IB and I got one, since then my success rate for first round interviews has been higher but I just finished my internship so I have to push strong and I can follow up if I'm able to land a full time now.

 

If you're looking at New York, you can cross GS off your list. The class is filled, almost every returning summer has signed and there is a surplus of candidates on hold for those remaining spots where offers have been extended but not yet accepted.

Not saying this to be harsh, simply to help you focus your efforts.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

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- Capt K - "Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
 

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