Investment Banking in India
Hi Everyone,
This might be of the track but does anyone know about the Investment Banking scenario in India?
Its a great emerging market and I have heard a lot about the live style of I bankers there does anyone have any idea?
Any inputs will be appreciated
I had the fortune of doing my internship in an I-Bank in India. Inspite of having an option of working in UK, i decide to experiment the Indian Market. Well from my experience, it is a totally different style of working. Firstly being the nascent stage most groups and not fully developed. Even in the bulge barket firms in India, most analyst/associates work in all areas and all sectors and the VPs have approximately 2-3 groups under their review.
Obviously being an emerging market the margims for these firms are higher than other markets.
What are some major players for I-Banking in India?
Kotak is amongst the biggest...
Then I guess JM Morgan Stanley is a close second...and merill comes a close third...
others are really not worth mentioning
cause if its anywhere near the US pay, you can have your freaking castle.
Investment Banking Bonuses in INDIA (Originally Posted: 07/18/2011)
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/I-bankers-bo…
Is this article genuine ? Do Asian Associates get anywhere close to $170k as bonus ?
I believe the bonuses mentioned in the article are higher than the US standards ?
What do you think ?
"Is this article genuine ? Do Asian Associates get anywhere close to $170k as bonus ?"
Not sure about India, but I know analysts in HK and Singapore who get $150k as bonus
Entry level analysts in India can earn 50-60 lakhs (spelling?) from what I've heard, Since there isn't an "analyst" level there, I'm assuming that's what I heard regarding entry level associates. Since that's only entry level, I guess that's its entirely possible to earn 170k in bonus, since one crore is roughly 250k, so earning 1.5-2 crores as you move up probably implies bonuses of upward of 170k.
But damn, that's a SHIT ton of money in Indian terms. I really, really need to break in here somehow lol.
It usually takes 2-3 years to get into ibanking in these countries, maybe not for HK. But I know for a fact in countries like India and Singapore it is rare for a kid out of undergrad to land IB. Many of them sit for the CA work at Big 4, or other positions in smaller banks for 2-3 years and then start as a 1st year analyst.
oldmansacks is spot on.
I am a final year student at one of the IIT's considered to be the most prestigious college in India. I can confirm that it is almost impossible to break into IB FO positions in India without 2-3 years of work ex as CA or completing your MBA from one of the top IIMs( 2 years again) and 90% of these hires are for Analyst position (yes there is one). From my university, JPM recruits 2-3 kids for sell side ER but no one for M&A.DB,CS,GS recruit for Middle office/operations/Quant positions etc.
I think that this article is a bit flawed.I know my seniors who are making 1-1.5 crores (200-300k), but that is not in India,but in Singapore.They are usually amongst the top 10% in IIM (only top 3).A 2nd year analyst in India makes around 20- 25 lakhs ( 50 k) in salaries + 10-25 lakhs (40k) in bonuses which makes it 90k in total, a huge sum in India.Just to give you an idea,a luxurious apartment costs around Rs. 35000 (800$ )per month in Delhi and you can spend around 200$ every weekend, eating/partying in 5 star hotels here.You would still be saving close to 70k.
Sounds a lot!!
BB Associate from Mumbai here, the 170k bonus figure is more likely to be a top bucket 2nd year or a 3rd yr associate.
Base is typically $110-120k for associates and for analyst 1s base is around $70k. IIM grads typically get hired as Analyst 2 /Analyst 3. Bonus is 75-125% of base.
Heirarchy is normal 3 years Analyst, 3 years Associate-Vp and so on.
There are undergrads but few and far between, mostly relationship hires or guys who moved after a couple of years in the back office.
Mumbai IB salaries are higher than NYC on an absolute basis (must be near double if you take into account PPP) but still lower than HK and more or less at par with Singapore.
Its crazy honestly, but well its all crazy anyway till the bubble bursts.
Holy shit... bankers must actually be gods in India.
@ randomguy : Need some advice regarding Investment banking. PM'ed you. Thanks a ton!!
I actually wouldn't mind living in India (Mumbai) for a few years. I say that now...it would probably be an incredible adjustment for someone from the States...
^Yeah man, living in India is a huge adjustment. I'm working here right now, and even simple things like taking the train/bus, or even figuring out where the hell you need to go is SO much more complicated than in America, and its even worse in Mumbai. The roads here aren't labelled properly and even people living here have to constantly ask people on the road where to go when traveling someplace new, whereas in the US you can just pop in your GPS/read signs and you're good. If you have family though, then it can be a fun place, but otherwise, I couldn't imagine doing it.
Randomguy, do you mind me PMing you? I'm an undergrad wanting to do banking/consulting in India and could potentially use some advice if that's OK with you.
Guys,
I asked some guys who worked at JPM in India and they told me that the numbers aren't true. Most of the work the guys hired from IIT/IIM end up doing outsourced jobs. Its only the cream who end up doing THE work.
Read the report closely again, the numbers are mentioned for Asia and not India alone. I know guys in Singapore, HK getting paid at that level.
Also please google for CEO compensation India and you will realize that most of the CEO's end up getting 200k-500k. So obviously 2-5 year experienced kid wont be getting $170k.
Couple of years back I had heard a MD of GS who shifted to Reliance Retail for $1mn and that had hit newspapers etc.
I believe the euphoria has been subdued on the forums as well :)
This is also true. Not sure about Mumbai. but there are places in India (Bangalore comes to mind) that outsources investment banking services. I had an interview with HSBC Bangalore and the group was pretty much a support group for IB but the people called themselves Investment Banking Analysts. They probably do the DD for bankers elsewhere in Asia (Singapore, China...) You still get to look at interesting markets but all I am saying is that there are groups (mostly BBs) in India that act a support team for other IBD groups that are still part of the deals process, so do YOUR DD before you take action. I personally would dread working in these groups, but if you are horny to work in emerging markets it might be a good opportunity.
This is incorrect. IITs are undergrad engineering colleges while IIM are post grad B schools. IIM grads do not join the back office roles (which you refer to as outsourced roles above), they are hired for front office roles, typically as 2nd yr analysts (India client coverage, M&A, ECM etc). Also most IIM grads do join the BBs in offices at NY/London/HK/Singapore in the IB teams there.
Important to note that in India MBA grads from IIMs usually have 0-2 years of work ex and have their MBA degrees by the time they are 23-24, so they are not taken in as associates like US Bschool grads.
IIT grads (undergrad engineers) and CAs however do get hired in the back/middle offices where they support global and Indian front offices. Clearly they get paid much lower amounts (US$30-40K all in)
I havent heard of this GS guy and Reliance Retail is hardly the place I wud expect a GS MD to go! Do you have a link?
CEO compensation and Ibanker compensation have no correlation in India given that there aren't too many professional CEOs in India. A very high majority of Indian business are family run businesses across large caps and small caps (be its Tatas, Birlas and Ambanis or the smaller infra/real estate firms).
Also there are very few companies in India with >$10 Bn Mcap, so any comparisions will have to be made with US midcap CEO salaries ideally and I think they are in line with the US levels.
This link should help
http://business.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/aug/04/slide-show-1-indias-h…
Appreciate the fact that the numbers are indeed crazy and might be difficult to swallow, but there are probably a sum total of 40-45 BB associates in India and given the very high focus on the Indian IB market from all major banks(GS/MS//JPM/Citi/ML/UBS/CS/Nomura/Rotschild/Lazard/DB/Barcap) it is inevitable that there is a major demand supply gap.
So yes the numbers are accurate and will last as long as global banks look to build their India teams and there is supply of limited talent with relevant experience.
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-07-18/india-business/2…
Dont get me wrong, If you have seen wall street 2: money never sleeps, Langella seems to be cribbing about the guys from Mumbai tumbai the unknown unseen people.
Maybe you are right and I'm wrong. Its raining money in India.
Haha, I hope you aren't seeing the world through the drivel that Hollywood feeds you.
I am right, you are wrong, but a few hundred people getting paid in a country of 1.2 billion would hardly qualify as raining.
This is a country of extremes with the world's most expensive house and the world's largest slum a couple of miles from each other. Bankers just happen to be on the right side of the extremes.
Bump:
Can anyone else comment on the prevalence of out-of-undergrad analyst positions in India, and the compensation they typically get?
If you consider all BBs in India, only 5-6 IIM grads have received offers from GS+CS+BAML+MS+Citi+JPM in Front Office M&A roles in Mumbai for the 2014 batch. This is typically the number of fresh hires each year. These are entry level positions, pegged at 2nd year analyst (vs. globally). Fixed pay is 30Lacs to 37Lacs range. I dont have any idea about the bonus range. Other mid-level IBs and Indian Banks' fixed pay is in 18-22L range for entry level roles out of MBA. Undergrads from IITs cannot get into Front Office M&A in the current market. However, back office / support office / middle office opportunities are available and that industry is fast growing.
This is a really old post.. but current market bonuses are about $7000 for analysts hahah
Just curious, how is the pay in investment banking in India (Mumbai/Delhi)? (Originally Posted: 02/23/2013)
I was just wondering what the pay is like for analyst/associate positions in india. I figured that if it is like US pay ($100,000) as an analyst then the quality of life I can have there is much better.
I understand that a lot of banks recruit MBA grads for IB placements abroad nowdays. Are there a lot of IB Associate opportunities in India? Also, what's the compensation for a first year IB Associate in India?
The pay won't be the same. Typically pay amounts in banks reflect the cost needed to maintain a certain quality standard of living. You will still be able to live very well, but don't expect to be pulling in US-level compensation (if you're payed in rupees)
Then again, my knowledge is based on the fact that I know some analysts at BB firms in Singapore who got paid less than they would have in the US. I could be wrong about India.
I am also interested in the pay scale of Mumbai
You're a little short on US pay.
Elite boutique 1st year analyst: 75k base + 65k bonus + 10k sign-on
This is at an elite boutique and also what no one on this forum who is not working in banking realizes is that 5% or so of your class will get that number... For a Bulge Bracket, for example, fairly conservative numbers would be 70k base + 40 to 45k bonus +10k signing. Quoting the top bucket bonus as an indicator of likely gross income is like quoting upper class income to signal median domestic income.
Pay at BBs is exactly the same as in the US converted to local currency of course. Its a lot of money in India, takes you straight to the top 0.5 percent of the populaation
@randomguy are you sure? So basically in India I would be getting paid approximately 50 lack to 75 lack rupees?
In my BB base salaries were 30/34/38 lacs and you can assume a similar bonus percentage as elsewhere. It is ridiculous money in India, but Bombay rentals are as expensive as NYC and almost as bad as HK.
Any idea about IB First year Associate compensation in India?
Banking in India - Banking/sales trading (Originally Posted: 11/26/2006)
Anyone know how easy/hard it is to do banking/sales and trading in emerging countries like India? I'm a third year analyst in the US, interested in doing finance in India, and was wondering how feasible that is? Also, if anyone knows what hours/salary/lifestyle is - it would be much appreciated
Living like a king in India.
Hours - 9AM to 11PM -2 AM on weekdays and 10-20 hours on weekends for almost all global banks except maybe GS who dont do much here. (Citi, MS and UBS pretty much lead the leagues alongwith local banks)
Salary - 1st year associates do a base of $100-120K in the global shops (depending on ex rate, slight differences among banks) Bonus is in the 75%-150% of base range.
Lifestyle - Mumbai has all the pubs you need and doesnt really sleep much either. Real advantage is of course that being an "emerging" market the cost of living accomodates all levels of spending. So a pint of the beer could range from $1-2 to maybe $8-9.
Real estate is about as expensive as Manhattan and the houses are not pretty. But you would be paying atleast $1200/month to get a decent pad anywhere in the city. Suburbs could be half that and nicer buildings, sea view apartments would be double that.
You could actually live like a King I guess.
I have a maid, a cook and a car with about $75k in the bank and I am just an analyst!
I can confirm this (except the $75k in the bank bit!) having spent the summer working in Mumbai IBD. If you have IB salaries in India you can live like a king with a luxurious life (read cars, big posh houses, maids, high savings in bank) comparable to VPs and Directors in London/NY.
any comments about PE ?
PE is very similar to the current US model. Althoughn honestly, there are too many funds in the market behind the limited set of deals, thus jacking up valuations and making life very difficult for each other. Some of the bigger boys like Apax and Apollo have been around for 3-4 years and have got just 1 deal to show for.
Hiring is a little unsystematic even now since global IBs barring Citi, ML descended in India only after 2006 or so and so traditionally PEs hired from McKinsey and the likes. That is changing now though.
Money is similar to IB 90k-120k base for post MBA asociates. pre-MBA get in the 50-75K range.
Actually if its base+bonus you are after, IB is a better bet in India. carry is of course a whole different ball game and typically kicks in only at VP levels here.
Wtf, Indian banks pay 100k PLUS 75-150% bonus? That cannot be right. Maybe at a very senior level, but ~$222,222 is 1 crore, and that is the equivalent to being a millionaire over there. There's no way they'd pay a first year that much. 0.25 crores all in sounds more reasonable but I could be wrong
He said that's the salary for Associates, not Analysts. 1st year Analysts are more like Rs 15-20 lakhs ($50k) if you are from IIT/University of Delhi/Uni of Mumbai. Higher if you have an MBA ($70k). Nowadays thats the average salary. It was on the news yesterday that Facebook recruited some kids out of IIM for Rs 40 lakhs ($80k).
INR/USD = 50 (I know its more like 45 currently)
Jeff Imm, where's your attention to detail my friend! I said $100-120K base for associates.
Analysts have actually seen a recent round of hikes across banks so 1st year analysts are close to 25 lacs (c.$50-55k base)
It's one of the fastest growing economies in the world (9% last quarter) with a very sophisticated set of Company promoters/shareholders so of course bankers are in demand! I suspect this will just get better as the whole recession business is now firmly behind us.
Btw that FB hire was for an undergrad (IIT) not IIM.
Btw 1 crore is not exactly equivalent to being a millionaire a decent 1000 sq ft apartment in South Bombay will set you back by $1-2 million (5-10 crores) at least. All this while the quality of roads and buildings is not at developed country levels!
These boys are right...you will be living in kinda like a king my friend if you seize the opportunity. I also was wondering if any of you all are familiar with Anand Rathi in India. I know they are a very big investment, wealth management firm (at least this is what I have heard, and their website looks legit). One of my cousins has a contact there (she did not specify his exact role, but I am assuming it is pretty high up there considering this cousin of mine supposedly has all these random connections within the Indian finance community (which is surprising to me because she herself can't hold a steady job and is a mess, but that's a different story altogether). If anyone has any information on the types of entry-level positions concerning analyst type work, or any position where I would be able to get my foot in the door, please let me know as I am also looking for work in India as "capital"/emerging markets are starting to grow substantially, and since I am an Indian myself, I feel that this could be an interesting as well as bizarre opportunity.
Thanks.
Anand Rathi is quite big in Equity Research. I haven't heard of them having a big presence in investment/wealth mgmt. Also, try to contact the banks directly for any opportunities. There is no formal online application system in India and people mostly get jobs at the junior level via campus placements or contacts.
Alright, that's what I was wondering'---what the process was like. I saw a link on their site which requires to send an e-mail to apply? I guess this is what the no formal application system you speak of is about. Do you think I should send my resume with my first email introducing myself, or should I just simply state that I am inquiring if they have any open positions currently at hand?
Thanks.
I got my internships by emailing my resume to a dozen BBs in Mumbai. Send an email introducing your resume and that you are very interested in doing an internship. The email addresses on their websites are very generic ones e.g [email protected] that no one even checks. I directly approached HR or some contacts.
If you want internships, best way is to get in touch directly with people in these banks (linkedin should be useful if you dont know too many people). that failing get in touch with Vito India, Ikya Search and the likes. They are very knowledgable
Investment Banking in India Advice (Originally Posted: 08/27/2013)
Hey. I have finished my degree in engineering from Hyderabad and did a fellowship like TFI for a year. I am really interested in IB. I wanted to ask you guys the best way to get into the field.
Should I just start applying for jobs in IB or do a Masters in Finance or MBA first after getting a few years of work experience.
Also If I have to get an advance degree which country should I do it from.
Thanks in advance for the advice
I will be joining Kotak Investment Bank,Mumbai for my summer internship. Any inputs regarding what to expect, what kind of work will I get to do, any pointers regarding Dos and Don'ts will be highly appreciated. Looking forward to enthusiastic response at this forum Cheers! Puneet Gandhi
Get into IIM A/B/C. The only other option is the CFA which is still highly valued in India.
I am getting a internship at a boutique IB firm in hyderabad for 6 months. Will i be able to leverage this to move to other firms in the future
The network you develop will probably help. Just do a killer job and see what happens.
Thanks for the help.
Advice on Investment Banking roles in India (Originally Posted: 04/01/2012)
Greetings All,
I have an admit from a top 10 b-school in USA, and am looking to move into IB role in mumbai(not ib support). I was wondering if anyone on the forum has any advice on networking/best firms to target for.
I am looking to be in traditional IB groups M&A, Product coverage etc....
I currently work at a Bulge Bracket bank in (NY and Ldn) in equity analytics on the technology side.
I would appreciate any advice on the recruiting front for role in mumbai.
Thanks in advance
I think when it comes to Investment Banking in India, things are really picking up...with recent global deals such as
Vodaphone acquiring the Telecom assets of Hutchison Telecom in India KKR acquiring the software unit of Flextronics Tata Steel acquiring UK based Corus Hindalco acquiring US based Novelis Oracle acquiring a controlling stake in I-Flex Mylan acquiring Matrix Labs EDS acquires controlling stake in BFL Mphasis Swiss cement company Holcim acquires ACC Suzlon acquires Belgium's Hansen Transmissions and Germany's RE power Systems Dr. Reddy's Laboratories acquires Germany's Betapharm
Big IPOs over the last couple of years - WNS (US Listing), Idea Cellular, TCS, DLF(coming up in the next few weeks), EXL Services, Mindtree Consulting (in the coming week), Jet Airways, Deccan Airways, Cairn Energy India, Reliance Petroleum, Infosys - Equity Follow On,ICICI One Source, Biocon and many more
Plus a number of private equity firms - Bain Capital, Blackstone, Carlyle, Apax Partners, Texas Pacific group, Warburg Pincus...have stimulated deals.
The Indian government has recently announced that it would kick-start the privatization process, taking three power sector companies public.
I think the following banks dominate the league tables (Equity and M&A combined)
Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers and Credit Suisse are building operations.
BBs have offices in Mumbai. So can't you just ask for Mumbai office after doing a summer with a BB in NY/London?
IRSPB, I am going to start my MBA in a few months. You raised a really good point.
Can someone comment - if I can try for a summer role at BB in NY/Ldn and then ask for a Mumbai office ?
Also can anyone comment in terms of deal flow which BB's are regarded well in India ?
Banking jobs outsourced to India? (Originally Posted: 06/14/2007)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118179147499434968.html
• Situation: Wall Street firms are increasingly turning to outsourcing for nuts-and-bolts investment-banking work, like producing "deal books."
• Latest Example: Merrill Lynch, following rivals Deutsche Bank and Citigroup, bought a stake in Copal Partners, an Indian research firm.
• Bottom Line: Such outsourcing frees up the Street's deal players to focus on building relationships and more detailed investment-banking work.
from today's WSJ (June 14), pg. C3
Does anybody know Salary/Bonus numbers for Associates and VPs in India?
DB and Citi have been outsourcing for the last 3 years and it hasn't dropped their analyst intakes or junior staff. This is good news for anyone aspiring to a junior job because it means you'll spend less time formatting pie charts and doing price volume graphs and more time doing models and other higher value add stuff that will make you more employable a year or two down the line.
"Living the dream 24/7 on http://theallnighter.blogspot.com"
Investment banking in India? (Originally Posted: 01/10/2013)
I am currently doing my undergrad in US, but my parents still live in India. I think they really want me to move back to India eventually. As of now, I have not really considered doing that definitely not as an analyst. Let's say that I wanted to go there as an associate either in IB or PE? Are there many firms? What is that job market there? Is there compensation comparable to US? Also in terms of MBA how are the IITs?
Thanks
Regarding compensation structures... Kotak -Base 11.5 lakhs + 4 lakhs assured bonus ...average bonus goes from 100-150% of base salary
JPMC, Merrill - 18-20 lakhs base Credit Suisse - 23 lakhs
http://www.youtube.com/embed/yqLs1xwfNKE
http://www.youtube.com/embed/1n42TvH2YMQ
i know someone who interned (I'm not gonna say the name, but there many branches all around the world) in India
I have talked to somebody who is running a private equity shop and investing exclusively in Real Estate in India. There are many firms in India in private equity as well as IB space. According to my source, firms in India prefer hiring somebody with the local knowledge to a person who comes from the US and has no knowledge about the Indian market. However, this is just one opinion from somebody who is in the industry and hiring practice may be different for some other firms. So, take it with a grain of salt.
Banking in India - List of investment banks? (Originally Posted: 09/21/2010)
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone can give me a list of, or can help me find a list of investment banks/private equity firms in India, more specifically Mumbai or Delhi. I have tried to do a google search, but I don't get very clear results, or the big ones keep popping up for their Mumbai locations. If anyone can help me out, it would be greatly appreciated (silver bananas!)
thanks!
the compensation is in regard to which position? and how are the hours/lifestyle? how difficult is it to get placed in india for an associate/vp position? thanks alot.
my understanding is that Kotak Mahindra (regional firm) is the largest player. ENAM and JM Financial are a few other regional firms that have built a good reputation. You also have the usual foreign banks - Goldman, MS, JP Morgan, UBS, Credit Suisse. These foreign banks sometimes use their indian branches as back offices. The deals that you get to work on in India are typically IPO's as firms are going public. M&A deals should be expected going forward, but you would have to give it some time
Gracias, keep the responses coming as I have more bananas to give!
I am with a BB in India. While local banks do a lot of business, the league tables still are largely between Citi, MS and UBS in ECM and MS and SCB in M&A.
There have been quite a few threads with this question. Check my older posts, have given some flavor there.
I'm curious about IB in India as well so bump
IB internship in India (Originally Posted: 06/07/2010)
Hey, so im going to be working at an IB in India this summer. what should i know about IB in india beforehand so i dont look like a complete fool when i get there?
thanks
thats good money in india...23lakhs base...and then another 20lakhs in bonus is nearly $100K, which is a lot considering its india.....ofcourse im assuming these salaries are for analysts...
^^^^ hahahha
I really don't think that there is much of IB at all in India. It's just beginning and it's even more infantile than IB in China.
http://www.livemint.com/2008/05/19232349/15B2C1A9-09B9-44E5-A2DB-E349DE…
I work at a BB in India now. Have worked in a London BB in the past. The hours are fairly similar since the market's crazy now with deals every other day.
The work is very heavily tilted towards capital markets transactions at the moment (IPOs, Follow ons , CBs and the like). M&A has picked up fairly strongly , but the market has always been 70/30 towards cap markets work. (That's where the fees are)
The internships like everywhere else in smaller offices are fairly unstructured. Analysts in India are generally older than the average US/UK analyst since they are usually hired from IIMs (Top Indian B-schools) . So overall there isn't too much of a "baller" culture. Offices are fairly relaxed about office decorum and so on and so they do tend to be noisy and chaotic.
It's usually a bad idea to try and wear a suit unless you have a client meeting, given how the weather is. Also because of the intake method, the analyst pool generally tends to have a much more stronger grasp of the technical aspects of finance and so you might want to catch up on finance. Also you might wanna go easy on schmoozing unless you wanna be tarred as a clueless US B-schooler with useless social skills. (True story) .
Both clients and by extension banks here value your core technical skills and knowledge over any superior social skills and most definitely at a junior level.
Go there put your head down, work your ass off and people will automatically include you and mentor you. Try to be too smart and suave, chances are you might not be very well liked.
Also be respectful to seniors, not very unusual for senior bankers to be called as "sir" instead of first name.
This is really interesting. Isn't this representative of the Indian educational system and societal values in general though? The IITs take a very very different approach to education than the US Ivy League.
Be prepared for merciless diharea...thats the number one warning.
Hahahaha! Curry jokes! Let it never be said that this forum is unoriginal or given to stereotyping!
hey,
thanks for all the input, helped out quite a lot. i did have a followup question though. I am interning at IDBI capital with the M&A team this summer. I will be starting my senior year back in the States and beginning my full time job search. In all of your honest opinions, does having this specific internship (company and team) give me any advantage for a full time job search in the USA, or at least put me on par with other full time job hunters for entry level positions?
Thanks
Not as much. Junior year summer internship in Asia are eh.
In my experience, "international" especially Asia internships are usually through family connections and done in Freshmen/Sophomore year summer. People I know who did junior year internationally just wasn't all that driven or great. Most ended up in eh career.
The smart ones do international internship Soph summer and top notch US internships Junior summer for SA and either lateral into full-time offer or off to something bigger, better. Not sure if this is still true with the way the job market is in US, but at least back in 2007 this was the case.
I interned in Mumbai last year. Undergrad interns are not taken as seriously in the workplace so you will have to reach out to ensure you're getting solid exposure. At the end of the day just learn as much as possible.
how much is base and bonuses in india?
oh yeah i know I am definitely learning a lot here. These guys are surprisingly helpful and guiding me very well through the industry. Hopefully the work environment has changed a bit so i can hopefully get a full time job. Thanks guys.
How many interns are there in your office? Are all the other interns Indians, or are there a few internationals like in HK?
The party's over guys - ibanking getting outsourced to India (Originally Posted: 11/28/2007)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aBrxeTBQQrWs&refer=…
"We specialize in writing pitch books"...yipee!
ofcourse 40-50 lakhs in india is amazing even if its for either an analyst or associate position. However, with the real estate prices increasing and everyday luxuries becoming increasingly expensive, its harder to live a grand lifestyle with 40-50 lakhs in india. This is especially true in mumbai/delhi where real estate prices are comparative to new york. But i actually want to be living with a 50 lakhs+ compensation in india in my late twenties.
only the research component could be outsourced to india...i hope. damn, india and investment banking almost seem like interchangeable terms to me these past couple of weeks. looks like i'll be wrking in india after i graduate, if i can get a job there ofcourse.
This looks like a headline from 2003.
I've been reading similar articles for almost five years now. On paper, the cost savings look great - but there is huge value in keeping high value-added professional services local (e.g., when a slight miscommunication can have huge consequences you risk being penny-wise and pound-foolish).
Of course, many people will continue to believe that BPO is some inevitable, all-consuming force.
...I agree with the logic, but since when are analyst monkeys considered to be "value added". Maybe PE/HF/IM analysts who actually get some say in investment decisions add value.
LeveragedSellout.com
“These resources are great,” commented Walid Chammah, head of Investment Banking at Morgan Stanley. “We send them an email at the end of the day and by morning it’s done! These guys must literally not sleep at all,” expounded Mr. Chammah, ignorant to the concept of time-zones. “And the best part is they don’t ask me all those obsequious questions like the analysts here: ‘So tell me about how you got to your position?’ ‘What can I do to really add value for the firm?’ Blah blah! Damn the incessant sycophants. I wish we could send all their jobs to India!”
I would question the credibility of the article, despite being a Bloomberg article: "Their specialty is pitch books, the reports that investment banks use to win M&A deals."
Since when are pitch books used solely for m&a deals?
I assume the poster wrote this thread from his sweaty cube in Hyderabad...
Keep dreaming, and start drinking some water so you don't get more and more delusional buddy.
several BBs have been using outsourcing providers like copal for a year or two now...up until recently my team used copal to do large compsets.
outsourcing will change the analyst role, but not eliminate it entirely, since as smuguy mentions, its good to have at least a FEW feet on the ground with the sr. bankers.
It's not the wave of the future.
We had an outsourced analyst in India working for the team too. Did some pretty good work I should say. - MM bank
Goldman Sachs has it's third largest office in Bangalore and during my summer I used the help of guys down there every single day. Stuff included comps and data strategies (Stock comparisons, benchmarking etc).
And I sense a general low cost=low quality tone here. Totally NOT true, considering even in India these guys recruit Chartered accountants and the likes to do these comps. Those guys know their accounting shit way better than any ivy-league undergrad and so wouldn't be surprised if the quantum of work transferred to India increases.
As far as attention to detail goes, I think a guy who works a 8 hour shift is far better positioned than the guy who does 15 hours to handle, but well isn't that what we are paid for!
Eventually all low level, non-client oriented jobs will be outsourced. It makes sense.
Yes, it makes perfect sense. This way, in the future, nobody will be trained to actually perform those higher level, client-facing jobs...
Also, I don't think people on this forum are saying low cost always means low quality. My point was that there will always be a need for real-time changes to work products and face-to-face collaboration between deal team members.
As a buysider, there is a reason we travel to management presentations. There is also a reason that I can't get away with working from home. Further, there is a reason the PE fund where I work pays what it does - for summer 2007 hires, we offered first years an all-in comp that amounts to ~$325K - there is no question that we could hire for less, but the fact remains that we are willing to pay for top talent and it would simply be unacceptable, regardless of the potentially lower costs, to outsource this work to 5 different U.S.-based Accenture consultants or 25 different accounting / quant folks on the other side of the world.
I understand that BPO will have effects in the workplace, but I continue to believe that people consistently overestimate the impact.
Didn't they try this with Capital IQ? Obviously it didn't work because those comps are always wrong... Plus, where are they going to get senior bankers from? All the MDs I know started out as analysts.
if this India outsourcing trend increases... do you think the upcoming college grads in the coming years should start getting worried about their jobs..
since more Indian will be hired.. that will cause negative result for college grads
What about assoiciates. will their job out sourced too...
P.S. i just go to know while i was Mcdonalds tonight.. that my order was taken by a guy in India .... this out source this is getting lil scary.. ahah
The funny thing is they've been saying this for the couple of years about management consulting as well.
searching...if an indian guy serves you something it doesnt mean it's outsourcing..outsourcing is completely different and yeah it's happenening...although the process is pretty gradual....read the book "the world is flat" by thomas friedman...its fantastic..
_
actually if im not wrong...hyderabad is paying in that range...50lakhs+comp....its an amazing deal...a lot of the ibanking firms are setting up headquarters in hyderabad now....and the cost of living there isnt that high either....much lesser than mumbai and delhi...
Starting IBD career in India...golden opportunity or kiss of death? (Originally Posted: 07/21/2010)
Ill be starting my senior year at a non-target west coast school (3.3 gpa). Obviously, getting an IBD offer with stats like these is an uphill battle, so my plan was to apply for Big 4 Audit recruiting in the fall, and attempt to lateral to Transaction Advisory Services (TAS) after a couple years. Hopefully after a TAS stint, I can be picked up by a decent MM firm or get into a good Bschool.
Recently, I found out that a good family friend works over at Morgan Stanley in India, and can set me up to work there when I graduate. (I would most likely be in M&A). At first, I thought this would be an opportunity of a lifetime!- First hand experience in a BB, learn all about the emerging market, no brainer right?
Then I realized the drawbacks- When you compare the salary, ill be making WAY less as an analyst in India than I would make even in Big 4 Audit in the U.S. Also, I'd be out of touch with alot of my American contacts. Not to mention ill have to live in a 3rd world country for a couple years. Last thing I would want is to be stuck in India and have difficulty landing a job back in the U.S. The only way my India experience would be worth it is if it can give me a leg up in finding an IBD position here in the States.
So what do you think- would banks value the International experience and skills I learn? Or should I stick with the tried and true path of Audit-->TAS--->IBD or BSchool? Is the risk worth the reward? Thanks
i thought BB comp was level throughout the board
The consensus in other threads seems to be analysts get about 10-12 lakhs base salary, and about 100% of salary as a bonus. 1 lakh= roughly 2500 USD I believe, so that makes $25000-$30,000 base, and another $25k to $30k based on bonus. Glassdoor and the like are in the same ballpark.
M&I has an article that mentions IBD analysts earn less than their American and European counterparts, but the cost of living is lower in India too...so its all relative. Nonetheless, since I plan on coming back to the U.S., I couldnt care less about the Purchasing power Parity- Im looking at money in absolute terms.
This what my research is saying, but I can definitely be wrong- which would be great news!
HA golden opportunity if you like slaying Indian chicks with more bush than Crawford Texas
Salary would obviously not be the same in India.Living expenses are far far lower than what you have in States. If your salary information is correct then after bonus you will be getting 20-22 lakhs (40k approx) which is very high for Indian standards.Trust me..very few of the students from top MBA colleges in India land up that package.So salary should not be an issue. As far as work experience is concerned you wont be doing BS work..you will be in M & A..and that too at Morgan Stanley..I wish I had connections like yours.:P I am sure the MS name will take you far and banks do value international experience.Plus you will be living most probably in Mumbai which is absolutely not as third world as most of India.BTW whats your Visa status? If you are an American citizen then coming back and landing jobs in states should not be a problem at all.
I've known people from MS India who've transferred to London and Dubai too. I wouldn't turn down MS M&A anywhere, but that's just me. In terms of pay; yes, it won't be that much in absolute terms (which is a factor in terms of holidays etc. in pricier countries), but you'll certainly be a bit of a baller in India on those numbers. And the cost of living isn't lower, it's ridiculously low (although Bombay's not cheap for rent).
Are you seriously that worried about pay? As a non-target with a 3.3 (btw, that's marginally good enough for the Big 4 even, forget about MS M&A) you should take any banking opportunity that arises, much less MS M&A. I'd say work there for 2-3 years (seriously, it's not that bad, I've worked there before on an unpaid), make good contacts/impress people, slay the GMATs, go to a top MBA in the US, go through US office recruiting, ???, profit. Doesn't sound too bad to me, plus you might even like India. You've gotten a golden ticket, just take it run. As a fellow non-target person (although my GPA is higher), opportunities like this don't come around often, so don't worry about petty things like initial salary. The difference in doors opened will more than recover the lost wages at the Big 4, plus your job won't be as boring.
The world economy is currently in a major realignment due to national and technological shifts. Any global experience is a permanent boost in future mobility, whether it is to India, U.S., or another country. The decades to come are uncertain, Europe and U.S. may not be too hot in the near term and it is better to be global than tied to your home country.
With such low living expenses (regular meals are $1, think about that), you can pull off saving over $30,000 of a $60,000 salary a year while an analyst in NYC will find it difficult to save $20,000 of a $100,000 salary. At the end of the stint you are equally well off, with life experiences beyond what you otherwise would have.
You would think MS M&A is a no brainer. Seriously.
Do M&A for 2 yrs get into PE in India or London and go to business school. It's a no brainer. Why the hell do you care about money so much, it is your first job, relax and gain some experience. Stop being too picky before you regret the choices you make. Also I am sure MS is not located in the third world part of India, because Mumbai is far from third world if I recall.
for asking whether you will make in a third world country the same money in absolute terms than in NY one should take your offer away.
if u are focused on absolute terms (what for???) than stay in the us. Wait even better. move to switzerland where u will make way more. If you wanna have great experience and live like a king for some yrs go to india
Damn Americans. You guys seriously need to get some better schooling out there? What's funnier is the easy use of the term "third world" as if you really continue to belive you are in the "first world"
For starters get the numbers right, analysts in India in BBs are extremely well paid. 2nd yr analysts make anywhere from $60-$70K base, Associates pull in base salaries of $120K+. Bonuses are usually 150-200% of base. This is based on direct exchange rate conversion btw, no PP
Also before you figure out this way you can save 100K a year, please note that life in the third world may not be as cheap as you think. Real estate rates are higher than manhattan in Mumbai. I pay $1500K/month for a 700 sq ft apartment and I am commute almost an hour to work. A 1000 square ft apartment in the 10 mile vicinity of the business district would put you back by a million dollars atleast. And a good social life doesn't come cheap either, movie tickets cost $10, and a night of drinking will put you back by $200 - 300.
Well of course if you want to slum it out you can live on less than $1000 a month, but why would you want to do that? Good luck getting that gig, but a few hours spent on the internet researching India and its markets would go a great length in reducing the gap. Also watch out for the analysts in India, they all come with degrees in finance and stick to the stereotype of being extremely good with numbers
india is the kiss of death, its usually where back office is
not true..lots of deal-flow now..my friends in India who are in the industry work like crazy and get paid well too..I wouldn't think twice.. :)
Let's think: You have a potentially excellent future ahead of you in India and a disgustingly mediocre future here in the States.
Also, since much of India is still in its formative years, you would likely be staffed on deals that help shape the landscape of India's economy for generations to come.
If you really have to think about this, then you deserve the Big 4.
Who on earth is paying $120k base for associates in Mumbai? I call BS.
If you're black, you'll face a significant amount of racism there, among the general population.
@Genesis, Would appreciate if you actually spoke with some numbers to back you instead of trolling. 120k transalates in today's exchange rate to Rs 5.6 million, which is actually pretty much in the range where Citi, ML, GS, MS, DB, Barcap all are in Mumbai (5-6 is the range).
The top 3-4 banks pull in anywhere in the $50-100 million with team sizes less than 25. so yes, they can pay pretty darn well. It's the world's second fastest growing economy in case you haven't been following with an insane amount of capital market activity.
Look you guys have to realise that there is a fundamental shift happening here Eastwards. Granted its still got a helluva long way to go before it threatens New York or even London but 10 years from now, it might just pay you very well to be an MD in India over any non NYC American city.
And yeah banks have back offices here, but the entry criteria are obviously very different and the pay much much lower.
I'm Indian and have a friend at GS and a friend at a prominent PE firm in India (around first-year associate level). Much lower numbers than you claim in terms of base pay. I'm hearing around 25-30 lakhs at the very top end at the associate level (so maxing out at around $75k). And only very competitive candidates are on 30 lakhs.
Your numbers (in the 50 to 60 lakh range) are likely all-in (probably just about in this economy). It's simply ridiculous to claim that an associate in Mumbai makes more in base than one in London, Dubai or NYC. I remember someone on here called kapoor something or the other who corroborated these numbers a while ago.
25-30 lakhs is what fresh grads out of the IIMs make. Typically 2nd yr analysts. Your numbers are way off. Check again with your GS friend (if he is in the front office that is). The numbers you refer to are atleast 2-3 years old.
Finally, I am an Indian and I work in one of those BBs I named above. At the very least, I know my number, trust that settles the argument
GS guy is front office. Has a US MBA. On 30k base, unless he's lying.
Do you have to be fluent in Hindi to perform there? How will only a passing knowlege of the language (high comprehension, low verbal skills, 0 writing ability lol) do?
If you mean $30K (Rs1.3 MM) he is flat out lying, You'll make more in a Big 4 here. Hell KPMG Consulting pays higher than that.
I know exactly what the guys at GS make here and I know ana analyst who pulls in a $85k base and was at one point discussing options with them.
Look let's end this here. I am in India and I know what I make and like any good analyst I also know what my peers make.
That simply beats any other source you can come up with.
I meant 30 lakhs so around 65k in USD terms, apologies (I don't often speak in lakh terms). Maybe the numbers have gone up drastically since I last spoke to the guy, but I'm absolutely shocked that they're higher than London, NYC and Dubai in terms of basic even after the increase this year, and especially considering the difference in taxes. Have to take your word for it I guess; I guess the market has changed in a big way the last couple of years.
I don't agree with this, but I once heard an associate call India the world's back office.
^^having been born and brought up in India and now living in States I pretty much agree with you..India has a long way to go. I guess the point should be that one can live a first world lifestyle in a city like Mumbai..which is true.
This is absolutely true as most of the back office IT work has always been outsourced to India, due to low labour costs. But the question that comes to my mind is what about the deals which happen in India? For example MS advised on the US$2.0 billion merger of Reliance Industries with Reliance Petrochemical,and many more.They would be needing people in FO roles for these transactions right? I guess since the deal flow would obviously be not as high as US ,there would be much lesser number of professionals working in FO.India is an utter shithole... no way I would even consider living there, no matter how nice MS M&A might sound. If you've never been over there, you should definitely take a trip over and see if you can handle living there for a few years.
I loled when RandomGuy was pissed at us Americans calling India "third world" and questioning our "first world" status. Your country may be rising, but its still poor. You may be living a "first world" life with your position in ibanking, but you are in a small minority. You seem like an intelligent guy, so lessons in basic logic should not be necessary. No i'm not nationalist, was not even born here, actually I was living a pretty "first world" lifestyle in a generally shitty country, just like you are now. To believe otherwise is delusion.
Dude, do not go to India. Think about it. the dealflow will be slow, and you'll learn a lot less. Furthermore there's no reason that experience would be particularly valued unless you got real dealflow. And then you're in india. i think you should continue to try to get that type of job in the US and in the meantime take the audit route. doesn't mean you have to stop applying.
This seems like pretty terrible advice to me. India has one of the fastest growing GDP's on the planet. JPM is a large player in Indian M&A (they were involved in Reliance?). I don't see how your experience is going to be somehow not valid because it was gained in India?
Seriously... big 4 audit vs JPM M&A... this is a no brainer to me (assuming you're willing to live in India, and even if you aren't, for jpm m&a you should be!).
My mistake - posting at work. Still fairly confident that what I said applies (minus it being JPM, and the Reliance deal).
Just don't see how potentially doing Big 4 Audit trumps MS M&A.
If your goal is to do IB, I just don't see how you could pass up a BB IBD position for... anything.
re: deal flow
"By market share, the Firm was the #1 M&A advisor in India for completed transactions in 2009 - according to data provided by Thomson. The Firm advised on the US$2.0 billion merger of Reliance Industries with Reliance Petrochemical, NTT DoCoMo's US$2.7 billion acquisition of a 26% stake in Tata Teleservices and Providence Equity Partners' US$428 million acquisition of a 16.1% stake in Aditya Birla Telecom."
Whoever said dealflow would be slow is a dolt. Plenty of work there to go around.
Take it and don't look back. The country might suck to live in for a couple years but it might just be the sacrifice you have to make. Spend a few years there and lateral someplace nicer if you still don't care for it.
You'd be a fool not to take advantage of such a great opportunity. Good luck.
Regards
It seriously puzles me how a bunch of smart twenty year olds who crave to spend the next 4-5 years of life doing nothing but data gathering and data processing find it so difficult to do either when it comes to making career decisions.
Guys, if you dont have access to Bloomberg atleast google up India deal flow and activity.
http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/ma-activity69in-first-half%…
http://www.grant-thornton.co.uk/thinking/emergingmarkets/index.php/arti…
And as to my point on the "third world" reference, a great majority in India is poor no doubt, but fact is India' s middle class population at about 400-450 million is larger than the entire US population. And most comments here about living a wretched third world life, seem more based out of prejudice than any real experience or basis. As an analyst you would be earning in the top 1 percentile of India's population and can have a great time blowing money if that is what gives you the kicks. There is wretched poverty all around, but well it stops bothering you once you realise the slum dwellers are probably as enterprising if not more than you are to figure out a way to make a living
The social scene in Mumbai is one of the best I have personally seen and I would put it above Singapore or London, probably still some distance to go before it reaches HK levels and NYC of course is pretty far away.
And finally English is the business language here and you do not need any other language for transacting, however picking up Hindi would ease your daily interactions
Go with your gut, the best decisions are made when you stop listening to people.
@randomguy - great points! I agree with all. Just can't imagine how people call a great nation feeding more than 100 crore people @ the growth rate of 8% pa, third world? Totally dislike the term, especially when you refer a whole nation with it. Guess its lack of awareness and of course prejudice as you mentioned.
@Downtown22 - you simply reveal the level of intellect you carry with your hideous comments. Open you eyes and read some more on emerging economies before you talk through your gut
@randomguy - what bank do you work for? Since you are in the industry, had a question for you. How hard would you think it is or will be transferring from Corporate Banking (large i-grade MNCs) in a global bank in NYC to I-banking role in a BB in India?
I'd really suggest applying to some other jobs in the U.S. I know your friend says he can get you a job in MS India, but............ Realistically, does he have that power or is he just talking? I've seen a lot of situations where people claimed they could hook someone up with a job, but then it turned out they couldn't when the time came. This is because a lot of people like to build themselves up by claiming they can do important stuff for you. Now I'm not saying your friend is exaggerating, but it doesn't hurt to have some backup job in the U.S. if stuff falls through.
Also, competition is enormous in India and there a lot of high GPA guys coming from the IIMs and IITs. For your friend to be able to get you a M&A analyst role there, he has got to be a powerful man in the company. Furthermore, there could be some concerns from HR and others in MS, when they get a resume from a 3.3 non-target. In that sort of competitive atmosphere, MS guys are going to question what unique stuff you bring to the table and not why you're better than the huge number of 4.0 IIM dudes. I'm not saying the job isn't for real, but be skeptical. I'd bet he can get your resume in the door, but ultimately it seems doubtful that he can just set you up unless MS has a really good reason to hire you.
Now, it's possible that you have awesome work experience or good valuation skills. If you do, play it up with the MS guys and let them know you are going to make a good employee. Just don't assume, though, that you're guaranteed the job. At a company like that, I'd bet it's going to take far more than a reccomendation to get hired.
The last thing you want is to end up having no job when you graduate, then scrambling around. If you can land something good now, then you have a fall back plan. By the way, I don't want to kill your hopes here. It's very possible that you will get a job there, but I do think you getting a job will depend a lot on work experience, financial knowledge and skills, a really good interview, and otherwise impressing the MS guys. Just be on your A game when you approach this company.
Assuming you do get the job, then yes take it. After 2 years M&A with MS, you'll have awesome exit opps and a good shot at top MBA program. I'm sure anybody in America would want a dude with 2 years M&A from MS India. Also, I'd bet that you'll save a lot of money while working in India and have a good time, especially if you are in one of the big cities.
I'd say go for it. The PPP is much higher in India, so you'd be left with a lot more surplus income opposed to NY, SF or London. Plus, its JP Morgan M&A! Just be aware of the fact that the corporate culture is really different in India.
Agree with RandomGuy. It's no more a thirdworld for what you're going for. Lots of Deals happening. Check DealCurry. It's my venture and day in and out I'm tracking deals and orginating some of the MM ones.
Base salaries for BBs are in the ranges mentioned by RandomGuy. My partner runs IB/PE focussed recruitment shop with clients accross the top..
Take the word.
^Any tips for breaking in in India? I really want to work there upon graduation, but I go to a non-target in the US
^Any tips for breaking in in India? I really want to work there upon graduation, but I go to a non-target in the US
When you guys are saying figures over 40 lakhs, are you talking about analyst positions?? My god that is a shitload of money. My cousin (21 years old) works for oracle, and they pay him 10 lakhs, and he is considered to be really well of. But 40-50 lakhs is in a whole new level!
Advice for intern in India (Originally Posted: 02/11/2013)
I have an internship offer at MM bank in India this summer. This would be my first real IBD internship experience (as a sophomore) so I would like some advice from people who have been in my position (preferably in India, as I suspect the banking culture is quite different there vs the US) regarding how I should approach the job etc (obviously I've done my own research, but it wouldn't hurt to get some advice from another experienced user :) )
depends on the place you are interning ? which company ? front end/backend?
I'd like to not disclose the specific bank's name but it's a fairly reputable MM bank in Bombay. I'd be a summer analyst in IBD
.
Did you end up doing the internship?
When you guys are saying figures over 40 lakhs, are you talking about analyst positions?? My god that is a shitload of money. My cousin (21 years old) works for oracle, and they pay him 10 lakhs, and he is considered to be really well of. But 40-50 lakhs is in a whole new level!
Goldman Sachs - IBD/PIA Office in India (Originally Posted: 02/24/2007)
Is there any one currently working at Goldman Sachs that knows how many people are currently employed at Goldman's new office in Bombay, India.
Is Goldman currently hiring analysts for the Indian Office ? Did any one at Goldman hear of internal transfers from the NY office to Bombay, India ?
Any input..will be greatly appreciated.
the only thing i heard about this is that when 2nd year appraisals came up, they offered the bottom 15% the option to leave and do MBA (or another vocation entirely..) or be transferred to mumbai. i know of at least 3 guys who did that.
far more likely, is that GS hire directly from the top indian institutes (IIM etc..) for their mumbai office, which would prove popular in my opinion.
Neil,
Thanks for the reply. So you do know 3 people who took up an offer with Goldman Sachs in Mumbai, India ?
I am in a difficult situation...I have got an offer from a top Investment bank (Think...GS/MS) to join the investment banking division...but can not take the offer owing to Visa/immigration related issues.
I wanted to ask you some more questions and get your thoughts but would need to share more personal information. So would it be fine if I sent you a PM or could I get an email address ?
i actually dont know but i do hope its for analyst or associate position. i am confused myself b/c on this forum there was a thread on Bombay Banking numbers that stated that analysts make close to 5-7 lakhs, which sounds too little even in indian standards: software engineers fresh out of college can make more in india. i think that associates, however, make close to 40-50 lakhs. analysts can't make 50 lakhs in india b/c the banks there simply cant afford it. the deal flow isnt that fluid and thus don't have the margin to pay analysts $100K in india. associates can make close to 50 lakhs b/c its still half of what they pay here in new york. but man, 2 lakhs a month for a 1st yr associate is still a shitload of money. my dad's friend is a vp at kotak mahindra and he is living the dream. he has drivers, servants, a huuuugeee house, a benz and a 5 series. my dad said hes making close to 1.1 crore/ yr. i hope he's happy.
Spreading comps outsourced to India (Originally Posted: 04/23/2011)
for the firms where there's an India team working on the comps, do analysts only work on them when it's urgent/for a fairness opinion?
how accurate are the comps done by the outsourced team typically and how much time does the analyst need to spend checking them to make sure everything's right?
do you think at a certain point all the analytical work will be basically an outsourced Indian operation and the role of the analyst will be vastly diminished?
I doubt that will happen. They need a training and feeder program for their future rainmakers. At a high level, IBD is a glorified sales job if you think about it. And you can't outsource sales.
I spent 2 years in equity research and yes a lot of the monkey valuation stuff is currently and will be done in the future in India. In fact, most BB ER teams that have 2 associates will usually have one of those 2 in India. You put everything that you want in an email, go home, and then in the morning you have an email with it all done. On top of all this it is A LOT cheaper to have an Indian analyst on your team. All associate analysts will never be completely outsourced, but it is getting to be more and more prevalent.
Hell,
Why don't they source it to classrooms as part of an intern+classwork project and have universities pay them for the privelage?
Well, you might be dumber than me but:
If you sent me a comp universe in UG, I could have reverse engineered the deal.
Whether you cherish, life journey only has one-way ticket... Don't too dispute life, that is life experience to the person's teachings Love, is the soul To be continued [url=http://www.ebuybus.com] fashion online [/url]
ahahaha
^ I missed something here....
hmm, sounds awfully high for analysts
50 Lakh is about $127,000, i would say 50 lakh for an analyst is impossible even for an associate, it seems a little far stretched i understand the progress india is going through, but, 50 lakh is stil a hugeee amount to be making yearly
i will be glad though if i am wrong :-)
India Outsourcing (Originally Posted: 11/27/2006)
I just wanted to hear some opinions on the increased outsourcing of work (mainly trading/precedent comps, profiles, other tedious work) to India. As banks continue to beef up their outsourcing, will this change the role of the analyst at all? Will the quality of work or life improve? Will the number of analysts needed decline?
My bank outsources work to India... both through low-paid data-jockey roles and full-fledged analysts (who frequently have years of education and certifications that we don't have, but who may not speak English perfectly or be from an American university).
The number of analysts has not declined, and we actually don't use our data centers in India as much as we could. Turnaround times have shortened as seniors expect us to be able to get work done more quickly. Comps and profiles are still primarily in the domain of New York analysts, not Indian analysts. We also have to thoroughly scrub any numbers we get, so it's not exactly a free ride.
In short: More capacity in India equals more pitching, more pitchbooks, more capacity for the seniors to draw on. It definitely does not equal fewer New York analysts. It does make life slightly easier on New York analysts.
yea i hope you're wrong lol. The thing is that no one in this forum actually has ever specified the exact compensation of indian investment bankers. But I really wanna find out. Does anyone know the exact compensation numbers for investment banks in india? Please also specify the position in regard to the compensation. Thanks a lot.
i have some info on what the money there is like...first of all...theres no way associates are making 50lakhs....i found out from my friend who's cousin is apparently an associate in DB...he is making close to 25 - 30 lakhs after bonuses which is close to $60-70K. And that too these are people who are hired from IIM or international business school of hyderabad....
Thanks. Man, I had high hopes, but nonetheless, 30 lakhs is good enough. So are all of the positions in the banks filled from within India? Or do analysts/mba grads from US have the option to work in India??
Hi Everyone, I am glad people are finally talking about Investment Banking in India.I am currently working for a Dutch Boutique in India in their M&A team.The bonus is obv related to the number of deals you close.I disagree with the fixed bonus component. I would say an analyst today would start with 12-15 lkhs average with a bonus of atleast 100% their first year Associates draw approx 18-20 as base with 100% bonus depending on the deals they close Lehman, Credit Suisse and Goldman have opened thier operations in India and the pay is way more than the industry average. The work and the exposure one gets in India is very good and your pushed on a transaction from day one.Also, you have engineers from IIT and graduates from IIM, whome you can learn a great deal from.The selection process is very hard and interview questions are highly technical.Having interviewed with I banks in Newyork, I can def say that interviewing in India is way harder I would advise any one to do an internship in India, given the present day scenario
Hi kapoor502, I am a Cornell University MBA graduating in May this year. I worked at a boutique investment bank in Stamford, CT over the summer last year. I was hoping to set up an informational with you to learn a little more about the Dutch boutique you are with in India (assumption being you are still with them, of course, even if not, I would still like to speak with you). Please let me know the best way to reach out to you. I would really appreciate your taking the time to speak with me. My email is: [email protected] Thanks, Ankur
Thank you very much kapoor. The information you have provided is very encouraging. I have a few questions however. What is the recruitment process for non-residents living in US? I am going to india this winter and the summer of 08, but how do I approach these banks for an internship? I really want some work experience in India. Is it advisable to start in new york (as an analyst) and then move onto india (for associate/vp positions). Or start in india as an analyst to become associate/vp in india? Thank you very much. Btw, how is the current deal flow in India? Thanks.
Hi slik, Sure, I would be happy to answer all your questions. The recruitment in India is pretty much the same as the Us,although a little less structured.It works more on refrence, for example if you know a vp or an associate to forward your cv to the right hand.If you do have an Mba from the US it really helps and your resume will speak for itself. You do have a lot of Indian Investment Bankers with foreign MBA's and my advise would be to start networking like crazy.More importantly, you have a lot of headhunters in India now who specialize in Corporate Finance jobs Also, I know friends who have worked as analysts in the US and have come back to India in a year to work in thier Indian operations with a real good salary package. India is booming right now and you should not have trouble finding a job/internship.We curently have 63 PE funds on hold all waiting to set up shop once they get the required licenses.Between Jan to March is when all the recruiting in India begins. Lastly, it really does not make a differnece whether you start in the US or India you would have an advantage both ways.You also have a lot of regional indian boutiques who do great work and give you great exposure.
Thank you so much Kapoor. You really cleared a lot of information I needed. I don't want to sound immature, but can you elaborate more on the compensation in India. For example, what is the pay package for analysts and associates in BB banks like Goldman/Citi/UBS? In addition, how is the lifestyle? For example, how the hours, the social environment and even the fringe benefits of working in India? Thank you once again.
How many dollars is one lakh?
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