Coffee Is For Closers

Nefarious-'s picture
Rank: Neanderthal | 3,176

You think I'm f*cking with you? I am not f*cking with you. I have been noticing a very cancerous trend in this country. A trend that has even leaked onto WSO in many aspects, which is arguably filled with very ambitious and hardworking individuals, as we begin to see a lot of younger people entering the workforce or get a year or two of work experience under their belt.

That trend, of course, is that everyone is special. Everyone deserves to go to college, everyone deserves a good job, everyone simply deserves. It's total bullshit and it is a horrible trend that our parents' terrible generation has instilled in kids born in the 80s and 90s - the same generation that is now running this very country straight into the ground.

For those of you unaware, CFIC is from the movie Glengarry Glen Ross - a movie about sales guys. The truth bomb gets dropped during Alec Baldwin's eight minute speech in the movie and it has been one of the sayings I have strived to abide by since I was old enough to understand what it means. In its original context, it essentially meant you are not allowed to drink the company's coffee and waste its money if you aren't bringing in revenue. Translated further to everyday life, if you aren't adding value or cannot add value, nothing should be handed to you for free. So this brings me full circle to my original point: you don't deserve anything.

Take a moment to examine your life. Chances are you are in your 20s. What have you done, I mean really done, in your life so far that warrants you deserving anything? You went to college? Big shit - going to college nowadays is a meaningless rite of passage that has been diluted to the point of rendering it nearly useless. You worked a year in investment banking? Well, let's give you a standing ovation for slapping together a pitch-book, pasting nonsense in PowerPoint, and putting together a cookie cutter DCF model, none of which truly added value to anyone, anywhere - yet you probably gave yourself a big round of applause.

It's unfortunate, really, that our parents' generation has instilled in so many people that everyone is a winner, that everyone deserves something. Everyone is entitled to their cup of coffee. This simply isn't the case. You aren't entitled to shit. I for one am sick and god damn tired of seeing people walk around like the world owes them something. Because they went to college, they deserve a great job or millions of dollars. You spent a year on Wall Street, so you are entitled to a job in PE. What kind of fucked up thinking is this? You know who actually deserves stuff? The person that gets shit done, the guy that closes, the guy that adds value.

I had a conversation the other day with one of my brother's friends. The kid just graduated from a state school, is 22 years old, got a job in Big 4 audit and is making 50k a year. He was bitching about how he was getting screwed. How he was getting screwed. The kid hasn't done anything in life yet except prove that he is capable of passing meaningless tests in college, yet here he is, thinking he is entitled to more than 50k for a starting salary at 22. And let's not bullshit around here guys, a ton of you do it as well. What makes you think you are even worth bottom of the barrel pay for those iBanking jobs so many of you hold so near and dear? You haven't done anything in life yet. You haven't even shown that you are capable of doing anything in life yet.

I did not write this to belittle your college education, or your career path so far - rather, it should serve as a reminder not to fall into the typical path of your fellow American. Let's face it; due to our "everyone is special" line of thinking, this country is sinking hard. You need to strive daily to create and add value - do something that makes you valuable, that makes you unique, and that makes you important. Always be closing.

Mod Note: Best of WSO, this was originally posted October 2013

Comments (138)

Oct 21, 2013

Good level of anger for a Monday. Solid points as well! SB.

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Oct 21, 2013

Someone put on his shitkickers today, but thanks for venting out how many of us feel. SB'd. Know your ABC's...

Always
Be
Closing

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Oct 21, 2013

+1

Please don't quote Patrick Bateman.

Oct 21, 2013

Best post on WSO

"Every man should lose a battle in his youth, so he does not lose a war when he is old"

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Oct 21, 2013

aggressive assertion

I see the world in technicolor.

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Oct 21, 2013

Third prize is you're fired.

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Oct 21, 2013

As an international student in the US, I see so many people who think they are entitled to a job after graduation. They go through college without doing shit - getting average grades, no extracurricular activity; no effort in making themselves attractive for employers. Despite the high unemployment, employers struggle with finding employees who are valuable for the company, which is counterintuitive.

Dec 31, 2013

yeah, I noticed the same pattern at my school. Being an international student in the US, especially us who want to break into the "prestigious" industries, is definitely very tough. It took me two years to really understand the American culture and to figure out what have to be done in order to get a sweet internship/full time job offer. Meanwhile, some of my local friends already have 2~3 internships under their belts due to early preparation or family connection. I can't tell you how much that frustrates me. What confounds me even more is how much entitlement they feel. sigh

Jul 19, 2017

It's been four years since you wrote this. Did you make it bro? Let me know.

Oct 21, 2013

@Nefarious- : I thought this would be a post about drinking like a man?

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

Oct 21, 2013

I wrote this last week, before you told me about your bad mixing habits.

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Oct 21, 2013
Nefarious-:

I wrote this last week, before you told me about your bad mixing habits.

Accidentally threw MS instead of SB. Adding to you now. Solid post.

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Oct 21, 2013

Well said, sir.

Oct 21, 2013

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!

Oct 21, 2013
Nefarious-:

...it should serve as a reminder not to fall into the typical path of your fellow American. Let's face it; due to our "everyone is special" line of thinking, this country is sinking hard. You need to strive daily to create and add value - do something that makes you valuable, that makes you unique, and that makes you important. Always be closing.

FUCK YOU, THAT'S MY NAME!

But seriously, let's not even pretend America is the egregious case here. I was on /r/anarcho_capitalism last night and found out there's literally a movement in Western Europe right now for Guaranteed Minimum Income! You're not reading that wrong, there's a movement right now is several fucking European states for ALL people (not just the ambiguous "needy" people) to be guaranteed a baseline wage from the government (my favorite "arguments" for which were that it would "support small businesses" and "enable civic engagement"). This shit blows my mind man, especially because these bullshit ideas will inevitably make their way to the unemployed/underemployed youthful masses on this side of the ocean. Seriously, give it a few years and watch as this actually becomes a point of public discourse in the political-media machine.

Unrelated note, this weekend I coincidentally bought a shitload of gold + silver bullion and bitcoins. BTC has been on a complete tear lately in light of the FBI having their heads up their asses post-Silk Road. An intriguing play going forward. Anyway, definitely feel a bit better hedged for the downside Mad Max-style dystopian future case. Bring on the February debt ceiling negotiations mothafuckas!!!

Sorry, this is more of my hand than I usually like to show on this site, but in the spirit of venting I figured I'd get some shit of my chest too. No, I did not write this from my basement while wearing a tin-foil helmet.

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Oct 21, 2013
Nouveau Richie:

But seriously, let's not even pretend America is the egregious case here. I was on /r/anarcho_capitalism last night and found out there's literally a movement in Western Europe right now for Guaranteed Minimum Income! You're not reading that wrong, there's a movement right now is several fucking European states for ALL people (not just the ambiguous "needy" people) to be guaranteed a baseline wage from the government (my favorite "arguments" for which were that it would "support small businesses" and "enable civic engagement"). This shit blows my mind man, especially because these bullshit ideas will inevitably make their way to the unemployed/underemployed youthful masses on this side of the ocean. Seriously, give it a few years and watch as this actually becomes a point of public discourse in the political-media machine.

Eh... it's not that bad an idea. We kinda already have a Guaranteed Minimum Income, just that it's paid out in food stamps and tax credits and healthcare and other subsidies. Might as well cut all the goddamned middlemen out and be done with it. It might actually shrink government, weirdly enough.

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Oct 21, 2013
Angus Macgyver:
Nouveau Richie:

But seriously, let's not even pretend America is the egregious case here. I was on /r/anarcho_capitalism last night and found out there's literally a movement in Western Europe right now for Guaranteed Minimum Income! You're not reading that wrong, there's a movement right now is several fucking European states for ALL people (not just the ambiguous "needy" people) to be guaranteed a baseline wage from the government (my favorite "arguments" for which were that it would "support small businesses" and "enable civic engagement"). This shit blows my mind man, especially because these bullshit ideas will inevitably make their way to the unemployed/underemployed youthful masses on this side of the ocean. Seriously, give it a few years and watch as this actually becomes a point of public discourse in the political-media machine.

Eh... it's not that bad an idea. We kinda already have a Guaranteed Minimum Income, just that it's paid out in food stamps and tax credits and healthcare and other subsidies. Might as well cut all the goddamned middlemen out and be done with it. It might actually shrink government, weirdly enough.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think there was the implication that it would fully replace existing social security type handouts, so this would be an additional layer. I'll check the campaign video again when I have access to YouTube (at home).

Would also note that this is not the same thing as Milton Friedman's proposed negative income tax, which is essentially a hack of the social security system by simplifying the tax code.

Oct 21, 2013

OP, one of the best posts I have read on WSO. SB+
Nouveau, I believe you have already seen this, but in case you haven't, this is for you: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/04/us-swiss...

"When a defining moment comes along you define the moment or the moment defines you."

Oct 22, 2013

Guaranteed What?

Oct 26, 2013
Nouveau Richie:

Unrelated note, this weekend I coincidentally bought a shitload of gold + silver bullion and bitcoins. BTC has been on a complete tear lately in light of the FBI having their heads up their asses post-Silk Road. An intriguing play going forward. Anyway, definitely feel a bit better hedged for the downside Mad Max-style dystopian future case. Bring on the February debt ceiling negotiations mothafuckas!!!

Better get used to basking in your own bloodbath.

Note this pertains to the "precious" metals. Don't really give a flying fuck about bitcoins.

Oct 27, 2013
Macro Arbitrage:
Nouveau Richie:

Unrelated note, this weekend I coincidentally bought a shitload of gold + silver bullion and bitcoins. BTC has been on a complete tear lately in light of the FBI having their heads up their asses post-Silk Road. An intriguing play going forward. Anyway, definitely feel a bit better hedged for the downside Mad Max-style dystopian future case. Bring on the February debt ceiling negotiations mothafuckas!!!

Better get used to basking in your own bloodbath.

Note this pertains to the "precious" metals. Don't really give a flying fuck about bitcoins.

Swell anecdote sibling.

I should note that if I were just trying to trade the debt ceiling negotiations I would have been fine buying into GLD (or actually doing a bit of research to determine what would prevent a "blood bath"). I bought the bullion and btc because I see a long-term benefit in having a portion of my net worth in a tangible, scarce store of value that I could actually carry with me (across a border or onto a boat, for example) in some extreme downside scenario. This isn't a position for the next few months, this is a position for the next few decades. Feel like I made that pretty clear with my dystopian future reference. Have fun smuggling your structured derivatives out the country under a dictatorial regime or during a global nuclear war.

May 23, 2016

The idea behind the base minimum wage, thing makes sense. You have to do something to offset the loss in jobs from automation. I don't agree with the idea that you just give people money to go on living their lives with basically no strings attached. It is inherently a bad idea, but I do understand the base idea that prompted the creation of this movement.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Feb 21, 2018
Nouveau Richie:

But seriously, let's not even pretend America is the egregious case here. I was on /r/anarcho_capitalism last night and found out there's literally a movement in Western Europe right now for Guaranteed Minimum Income! You're not reading that wrong, there's a movement right now is several fucking European states for ALL people (not just the ambiguous "needy" people) to be guaranteed a baseline wage from the government (my favorite "arguments" for which were that it would "support small businesses" and "enable civic engagement"). This shit blows my mind man, especially because these bullshit ideas will inevitably make their way to the unemployed/underemployed youthful masses on this side of the ocean. Seriously, give it a few years and watch as this actually becomes a point of public discourse in the political-media machine.

4.5 years later... but.. Being from a 100% undeveloped populist latam country, it is so funny for me to see how you react to that kind of ideas. Not saying that I don't agree with you, I completely do! In my country we have a lot of "Acquired Benefits" that are impossible to withdraw (e.g. If a company paid all its workers a lump sum bonus for a couple of years, it becomes illegal to stop paying that bonus... regardless if the company is broke or on the verge of it).
You guys wouldn't make it in another country than US... It would simply kill you inside...

Nouveau Richie:

Unrelated note, this weekend I coincidentally bought a shitload of gold + silver bullion and bitcoins. BTC has been on a complete tear lately in light of the FBI having their heads up their asses post-Silk Road. An intriguing play going forward. Anyway, definitely feel a bit better hedged for the downside Mad Max-style dystopian future case. Bring on the February debt ceiling negotiations mothafuckas!!!

Just curious... Cashed out? Or went from the ~180 to 10k with BTC?

Array

Mar 11, 2018

Held (hodl'd), bought the dips, bought ETH, joined a crypto company 2 years ago.

Feb 24, 2018

This guy probably rich AF now. Bought tons of BTC in 2013

Oct 21, 2013

The only person that I am mad at after reading this today, is myself.

Oct 21, 2013

so how would you suggest a kid coming out of college to add value to a company?

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Oct 21, 2013

I am owed hugs.

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Oct 22, 2013
Flake:

I am owed hugs.

Hugs are for closers

mbavsmfin:

I don't wear watches bro. Because it's always MBA BALLER time!

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Oct 22, 2013

Hahah

Oct 21, 2013

We were made to listen to that speech every morning before our morning meeting back when I was in equities. It got to be like coffee for us - you couldn't start your day without it. True story.

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Oct 21, 2013

@"Nouveau Richie" This one's for you:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/10390571/france...

Oct 21, 2013

@Nefarious- : kinda intrigued to see if your knowledge of drinking surpasses your knowledge of shaving...

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

Oct 21, 2013

Every person from our generation needs to read this.

Oct 21, 2013

I'm so happy I grew up with immigrant parents in this country. I look at kids in my school with disgust when they tell me they are having a hard time deciding if they want to do pe or work in ib... While the school is ranked 150 lol.

Great post man. I definitely agree.

Oct 26, 2013

Also grew up with immigrant parents and I 100% completely agree. It makes me sick to my stomach.

Oct 21, 2013

While I agree with the overall sentiment that kids expect too much these days, the fact is telling people they are shit is a horrible way to motivate them, especially if they have other options.

Only place where its probably worth doing is highly cyclical businesses or declining industries where you need to cut fat, which destroys morale anyway (so you might as well extract maximum effort), or true zero-sum games (trading, sports), where you can win by having the toughest bastards around and that success makes your organization desirable.

Oct 21, 2013

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. My one disagreement is about the fact that it primarily affects people born in the '80's and '90's. Proof: go talk about extending the age to qualify for Social Security by a few years to people in their 50's. Expect a post-menopausal riot.

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Oct 21, 2013

+1

"It was a nice party, with nice people."

Oct 21, 2013

Yeah but maybe that college grad could add more value if people like you would give him the goddamn glengarry leads! Its all in the leads! Shoot man, I am THIS CLOSE to closing the Nyborgs man. THIS CLOSE!

j/k silver banana for you.

Oct 21, 2013

These leads are no good. Seems to be a good excuse from what I'm seeing.

Oct 21, 2013

These leads are no good? YOU ARE NO GOOD!!

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Oct 21, 2013

This has been around since the dawn of time. Everyone in their early 20s has a period like this in their lives. You might be more ambitious than the average person your age but you feel like you should be rewarded for it. So its not just the lazy people that think like this.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Best Response
Oct 21, 2013

Seems every week or so there's a post of this general variety on WSO. I get the point and agree with the general notion, but in the end most of these posts (including this one) just come off as "Look at me, I'm more badass than you."

You're preaching to the choir. There are some exceptions, but most on here are hardworking, smart, and ambitious. Some are naive, yes, but that is typically more a result of inexperience and lack of guidance than it is a reflection of laziness. As UFOInsider pointed out, if you've come from a working-class background, you probably lack the guidance necessary to realize that you need to be going out there in your first 2-3 years of college getting top grades, leadership positions, and internships in order to get a job upon graduation. That's where WSO comes in, it provides a resource to obtain advice/knowledge that young people are expected to know but haven't been exposed to.

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Oct 21, 2013
Extelleron:

Seems every week or so there's a post of this general variety on WSO. I get the point and agree with the general notion, but in the end most of these posts (including this one) just come off as "Look at me, I'm more badass than you."

You're preaching to the choir. There are some exceptions, but most on here are hardworking, smart, and ambitious. Some are naive, yes, but that is typically more a result of inexperience and lack of guidance than it is a reflection of laziness. As UFOInsider pointed out, if you've come from a working-class background, you probably lack the guidance necessary to realize that you need to be going out there in your first 2-3 years of college getting top grades, leadership positions, and internships in order to get a job upon graduation. That's where WSO comes in, it provides a resource to obtain advice/knowledge that young people are expected to know but haven't been exposed to.

Yup. Plus these posts are generally from people with less than 5 years work experience. I totally get it but still feel the need to weigh in with the counterpoint. When I first started in NYC I was motivated to the point of retardation and would have killed someone if my boss had told me (ok, maybe just beat them up). Then I realized it's just a job, and even though I'm not making millions of dollars per year, I'm just not blown away with it. Now it's just like, show up, be cool, do your shit, get paid, get the fuck out....and look forward to the vacation that is grad school LULZ

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Sep 24, 2017
Extelleron:

Seems every week or so there's a post of this general variety on WSO. I get the point and agree with the general notion, but in the end most of these posts (including this one) just come off as "Look at me, I'm more badass than you."

You're preaching to the choir. There are some exceptions, but most on here are hardworking, smart, and ambitious. Some are naive, yes, but that is typically more a result of inexperience and lack of guidance than it is a reflection of laziness. As UFOInsider pointed out, if you've come from a working-class background, you probably lack the guidance necessary to realize that you need to be going out there in your first 2-3 years of college getting top grades, leadership positions, and internships in order to get a job upon graduation. That's where WSO comes in, it provides a resource to obtain advice/knowledge that young people are expected to know but haven't been exposed to.

Yeah, this is true shit. Plenty of annoying millennials waiting for their glorious futures to be handed to them, but plenty of modest, non-whiney grads who just need more pointers as to how we can do better too. I get that if someone is a MD or similar, they've probably earned their place to preach and bitch slap any shitty attitude out of us young ones, but at some point, we wonder if that's all there is to it - an unsolicited sermon on how we're all shit and how you're just better.

I am NOT in denial!

Oct 21, 2013

When I graduated high school I was told I needed to either, A. Join the military, B. Get a Job, or C. Pay for my own college. My parents were indifferent to what I was doing because they knew they weren't going to support me past high school. I have no safety net and honestly I'm glad that's the case, because if I were to ever become successful I'll know I did it by working hard and taking advantage of any opportunity I could get.

Oct 21, 2013

sigh @ op

Oct 22, 2013

I mean young kids don't know shit. Welcome to forever and a day. Agree with the post entirely, but there is a reason why college grads are called inexperienced.

Oct 22, 2013
TNA:

I mean young kids don't know shit. Welcome to forever and a day. Agree with the post entirely, but there is a reason why college grads are called idiots.

I have just perfected your post. No need to thank me.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Oct 22, 2013

Straight up. These kids do not want to put in the work. They want to graduate and get an awesome job and pay handed to them without knowing or doing shit. They'll get eaten alive in this industry.

Don't listen to anyone, everybody is scared.

Oct 23, 2013

Loved this, great post

Oct 23, 2013

You guys realize that every single generation since fucking Plato has bitched about the younger generation being stupid, lazy, etc. right?

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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Oct 26, 2013

Plato? Who's that?

[I'M KIDDING]

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

Oct 28, 2013

#TRUTH

Mansa_Moussa

Oct 23, 2013

Love it. Cheers for the post OP

Oct 23, 2013

A great post I haven't seen for a long time. Solid points.

May you live in interesting times, may you find what you are looking for.

Oct 23, 2013

Good write-up. Although I do think this post should be "trending" on TWTR or "suggested" on FB. Majority of people on WSO work their asses off (from what I have gathered at least.) Tell the unmotivated kid taking 10 semesters to finish undergrad triple majoring in English, International studies, and Art to stop complaining that they can't get a relevant job (and that I always prefer large fries with my burger.)

Oct 24, 2013

this post is REAL

Progress is impossible without change...

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Oct 26, 2013

'Marketplace' recently aired a good article on the phenomena [in China]. This trend would come to a halt if firms would just stop waving the teetment -- I mean treatment to graduates with distorted senses of entitlement.

Slow and steady wins the race.

Oct 25, 2013

reminded me of this - too new to post links but - google "gen y unhappy"

Oct 25, 2013

Posts like these is what keeps me co
Ing back to this site. Keep it up!

Oct 25, 2013

Totally agree. I'm about to graduate and I will gladly take whatever I am given so that I have a chance to prove myself.

I hate it when I hear people that have just graduated ahead of me talk like this...Fight Club should be mandatory watching. "You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."

In the words of the ancients, one should make his decision within the space of seven breaths. It is a matter of being determined and having the spirit to break through to the other side.

Jul 29, 2015

I have to agree with the OP no matter how matter how abrasive his style.

Oct 25, 2013

I am returning my free Rolex after reading your post. Those bastards just gave it to me... No, but seriously, great read!

"Practice drinking whisky straight."

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Oct 26, 2013

excellent point indeed.

unexamined life doesn't worth living

Oct 26, 2013

Exactly the same reason that I begin to learn python yesterday.

Oct 26, 2013

Oh, look, applause lights.

Don't mean to be a douche, but I don't get this post. It's either wrong by omission or trivial.

Sure, the world doesn't owe you anything, but that implies some kind of general fairness - that people are supposed to get what they deserve - which is just impossible. Not solely practically, even theoretically. None of us here would be worth anything in a civilization that hadn't developed currency, division of labor and advanced trade. You might be able to find the occasional arbitrage opportunity trading knives for berries for jewelry and back to knives, but your income potential would be abysmal even by third world standards.

All the technologies, discoveries, products and services you are able to benefit from by being born myriads of years later you did not do anything to deserve. All the public goods you experience, all the negative externalities you are shielded from, you did not do anything to deserve. Society invests in you before you can add value so your productive potential is larger when you're old enough to work. You can argue about how vast this investment should be, but that's politics and largely subjective.

Sure, people whine about being just handed 90% instead of 99%, but that just makes it easier for those who put in an actual effort. And as I hinted at in the first sentence, the OP is similar to the "Applause" lights you see in a studio. It's an agreeable message that comes with no significant effort for the group it's directed to, so it's really easy to get a positive response. The difficult parts consists of getting any actual utility beyond marginal motivational value out of it.

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Oct 26, 2013
Gustav:

Oh, look, applause lights.

Don't mean to be a douche, but I don't get this post. It's either wrong by omission or trivial.

Sure, the world doesn't owe you anything, but that implies some kind of general fairness - that people are supposed to get what they deserve - which is just impossible. Not solely practically, even theoretically. None of us here would be worth anything in a civilization that hadn't developed currency, division of labor and advanced trade. You might be able to find the occasional arbitrage opportunity trading knives for berries for jewelry and back to knives, but your income potential would be abysmal even by third world standards.

All the technologies, discoveries, products and services you are able to benefit from by being born myriads of years later you did not do anything to deserve. All the public goods you experience, all the negative externalities you are shielded from, you did not do anything to deserve. Society invests in you before you can add value so your productive potential is larger when you're old enough to work. You can argue about how vast this investment should be, but that's politics and largely subjective.

Sure, people whine about being just handed 90% instead of 99%, but that just makes it easier for those who put in an actual effort. And as I hinted at in the first sentence, the OP is similar to the "Applause" lights you see in a studio. It's an agreeable message that comes with no significant effort for the group it's directed to, so it's really easy to get a positive response. The difficult parts consists of getting any actual utility beyond marginal motivational value out of it.

That was baller.

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Oct 26, 2013
Gustav:

Oh, look, applause lights.

Don't mean to be a douche, but I don't get this post. It's either wrong by omission or trivial.

Sure, the world doesn't owe you anything, but that implies some kind of general fairness - that people are supposed to get what they deserve - which is just impossible. Not solely practically, even theoretically. None of us here would be worth anything in a civilization that hadn't developed currency, division of labor and advanced trade. You might be able to find the occasional arbitrage opportunity trading knives for berries for jewelry and back to knives, but your income potential would be abysmal even by third world standards.

All the technologies, discoveries, products and services you are able to benefit from by being born myriads of years later you did not do anything to deserve. All the public goods you experience, all the negative externalities you are shielded from, you did not do anything to deserve. Society invests in you before you can add value so your productive potential is larger when you're old enough to work. You can argue about how vast this investment should be, but that's politics and largely subjective.

Sure, people whine about being just handed 90% instead of 99%, but that just makes it easier for those who put in an actual effort. And as I hinted at in the first sentence, the OP is similar to the "Applause" lights you see in a studio. It's an agreeable message that comes with no significant effort for the group it's directed to, so it's really easy to get a positive response. The difficult parts consists of getting any actual utility beyond marginal motivational value out of it.

Finally, an actually meaningful comment to this thread instead of virtual fist pounding. SB'ed. Agree 1000%

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Oct 28, 2013
Gustav:

Oh, look, applause lights.

Don't mean to be a douche, but I don't get this post. It's either wrong by omission or trivial.

Sure, the world doesn't owe you anything, but that implies some kind of general fairness - that people are supposed to get what they deserve - which is just impossible. Not solely practically, even theoretically. None of us here would be worth anything in a civilization that hadn't developed currency, division of labor and advanced trade. You might be able to find the occasional arbitrage opportunity trading knives for berries for jewelry and back to knives, but your income potential would be abysmal even by third world standards.

All the technologies, discoveries, products and services you are able to benefit from by being born myriads of years later you did not do anything to deserve. All the public goods you experience, all the negative externalities you are shielded from, you did not do anything to deserve. Society invests in you before you can add value so your productive potential is larger when you're old enough to work. You can argue about how vast this investment should be, but that's politics and largely subjective.

Sure, people whine about being just handed 90% instead of 99%, but that just makes it easier for those who put in an actual effort. And as I hinted at in the first sentence, the OP is similar to the "Applause" lights you see in a studio. It's an agreeable message that comes with no significant effort for the group it's directed to, so it's really easy to get a positive response. The difficult parts consists of getting any actual utility beyond marginal motivational value out of it.

THIS

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Oct 27, 2013

Do you think he made $970,000 last year because he was great at "adding value"? There's a lot I want to say but the small percentage of readers who'd agree with me probably already know where I'm going with this... Plus I'm part of the generation in question so I'll go fuck off quietly.

Oct 27, 2013

Best post on WSO ive read in a long time

alpha currency trader wanna-be

Oct 28, 2013

Great post. I wonder if there is a relationship between the strength of the economy one graduates into and the feelings of entitlement one has.

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Oct 29, 2013

who has added value at 22.. A harvard grad who spentnt two years at gs is about as good a candidate as any for a pre mba pe job

Oct 29, 2013

dont compare them to henry kavits steve schwarzman and other bsd's compare them to the candidate pool

Oct 30, 2013

threads

My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.

Oct 31, 2013

I fucking hate kids with that mentality thinking they deserve shit just by showing up.

Nov 18, 2013

Solid post.

I'm bi-winning. I win here, and I win there.

Nov 24, 2013

This was a great post

Jan 1, 2014

Well said OP, nobody is entitled to anything.

Jan 1, 2014

Good stuff! Love the signature, too.

Jan 1, 2014

Disagree. Although I see entitled people graduating and expecting jobs, those who landed Big 4 and investment banking jobs did something right. They somehow showed that they were in the upper echelon of kids their age, and they deserve a wage of 50k per year, which is pretty close to the minimum level of comfortable living for single people their age. I'd argue that accountants, investment bankers, and any other occupation DID create value for their company during their application, interview, and long hours in the workplace. Look, if you go to work and your boss assigns you "a pitch-book, pasting nonsense in PowerPoint, and putting together a cookie cutter DCF model", then you added value to the company and deserve to be compensated fairly for your time and effort.

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Jan 1, 2014

I keep hearing this same topic popping up more and more. I don't fully agree.

I don't think that every seemingly "over-zealous" youngster has a god-like sense of entitlement. In most cases, I see them as sometimes having more "hustle" than some of their more senior counterparts. Some of the senior folks I know talk that "when I was that age I worked 10 years before I even expected to move up" type of shit. They slaved for their superiors for years before getting cut in. I just think folks nowadays are not going to spend 10 years slaving for small piece of the pie. If you on the team, you on the team. Most of them are willing to work more, they just want a sufficient stake in what they're helping to build. Plus, many of them seniors feel "I put my time in, now it's time for someone to do all the work and make me rich." But with today's dissemination of information, advanced education, greater insights into the markets, more open communication, increasing global interconnectedness, etc, young bankers ain't gonna sit around for decade waiting on an opportunity to play a meaningful and equitable part of the team.

All in all, I'll put it like a friend told me.....Good or bad...... The is fucking UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. One of most capitalistic, competitive, money chasing places on the face of the planet, home to the largest advanced economy, which supported by one of the largest financial service industries in the world. Let's not be surprised by a large number of youngsters hitting adulthood with stars in their eyes and a hunger in their bellies to gain material wealth...by any means necessary.

Attitudes reflect leadership....

Jan 2, 2014

Hey man, the Boomers started it... Now we get to take care of their sorry old asses for the next 30+ years. Anyone want to help me start an online casket company?

Jan 2, 2014
jankynoname:

Hey man, the Boomers started it... Now we get to take care of their sorry old asses for the next 30+ years. Anyone want to help me start an online casket company?

Talk about drop shipping...

Or we can get efficient and start a cremation campaign......just playing

Mar 29, 2014

You can buy a casket online from Costco. It was a Boomer's idea.

Slow and steady wins the race.

Jan 2, 2014

I'm in. Cash in on the jerks.

Mar 29, 2014

I just watched Glengarry Glen Rose. Holy fuck, crazy movie

May 12, 2014

You mean everyone DOES NOT get a ribbon/medal/trophy? Not fair, not fair! The decline of America continues...shameful.

May 12, 2014

Great post...and I challenge any entitled Millenial, hell anyone for that matter, to define "add value" or "value added." So diluted even a liberal I knew working in social media with a B.A. in English claimed they "added value" to their employer via their work. .

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Jun 26, 2014

Love every piece of this post. SB-ed!

Oct 21, 2014

lol

Jan 12, 2015

Great concept

Jan 15, 2015

Love this post. Nailed it, too - I absolutely was an entitlement baby until the professional world kicked my teeth in my first year. I quickly realized how truly insignificant my college accomplishments were.

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter."

Jan 15, 2015

First off thank you for your honesty, transparency and having the courage to speak up. This is a great discussion and should be a motivator for everyone. Be hungry and never settle. Expect challenges in life and work but just keep on pushing yourself.

Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

Jan 15, 2015

One of the best posts I've read on WSO.

Jan 16, 2015

I see both sides here...No one is entitled to anything and there are a bunch of brats running around with entitled jerkoff attitudes... And the whole giving everyone a ribbon or trophy for participation is fucking MIND BLOWING. That's not how real life works... a very few win and the rest of you are gotdamn losers. Most of these kids do need a serious shake up talk like the then-handsome Alec Baldwin gave in the Glengarry Glen Rose speech. But then I think times have changed SO much with technology and there is SO much info available to people etc. that 20somethings don't have to succumb to the same shitty career latter that their parents had to if they are smarter and innovative. And $50K a year? Maybe I am the asshole but who can live off of $50K a year? Espec in a major city. Add on the VERY likely chance of intense monthly student loan payments in there and you can barely eat. This all comes down to income inequality. I see both sides - no one is entitled to anything and a few should not be footing the bill for the majority... those with jobs should be thankful and work their ass off for what they get but when you have all these millenials making $50K and barely being able to live while their boss makes $387492720938 a year, that seems absurd and unnecessary. Like another person on this thread wrote, who really adds value that's worth $1mill or $970K a year? And that was back in the 70s-80s I guess... in 2015 that would be tens of millions I suppose. I consider myself a hard worker and I plan to be extremely successful but I'm not going to lie to myself... when I am making tens of millions of dollars, did I really EARN ALL of that money? Is the compensation really fair? The answer is no for everyone minus the exceptions like Bill Gates... It's all luck and playing your cards right at the end of the day that determines what end of the stick you get. But overall, this post and Alec's rant is useful for lighting a fire under all of our asses to work as hard as we can to achieve the goals/career(s) we want...

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Jan 21, 2015

You win! Good post! Growing up I saw my parents struggle so hard everyday at work. Nowadays us 20 somethings don't and won't put up that sh*t (Work PC). I am glad you brought up income inequality, because it isn't fair for some people depending on what they are doing gets nothing while a manager can sit in the office gets a huge chunk. If income increases in this country it will mean more spending and more competitiveness. I'm pretty libertarian on most things, but many people in this country deserves a raise especially if they live in a big city.

Greed is Good!

Jan 16, 2015

this IS my motivation!

Jan 16, 2015

Great post. Stay humble, stay thirsty.

Jan 17, 2015

Dig deeper. Ask yourself the question "Why"?

In other words, "Why?" does the school system teach the message that everyone wins? "Why?" is it that competitive sports are banned? "Why?" is it that our history classes focus on feel good nonsense and pc diversity bullshit instead of the real struggles?

Ask yourself the question of Why always.

I have, sitting on my bookshelf right now, a book that was written as a manual for "change agents", that instructs them how to manipulate local political systems in order to alter local education curriculum towards a desired end. That said book exists at all is proof that the entitlement attitude that people have been bred with is no accident.

Jan 18, 2015

Great post!

Jan 19, 2015

Damn - thanks for the throwback. Well said.

Jan 20, 2015

"I have been noticing a very cancerous trend in this country"

Se voce me entende, parabens.

Jul 24, 2015

This resonsates so well with me;

I have friends graduating complaining about 40-50K a year in North Texas (average rent is $750 a month).
When they have like one internship and a half way decent GPA from a regionally recognized school.

I fall into this too, but that's because I have 3 years of full time, substantial work experience but I make good for a 20 year old in college.

You can't close shit, you are shit, get out.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller.

"Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL

Jul 24, 2015

As whole, the job market is pretty efficient. Some have opportunities that they may not be qualified for or the lucky sperm that feed off their family's wealth, but people are more or less paid what they're paid because that fairly accurately reflects their economic value. If you're 22, then naturally you're going have to start at the bottom and work your way up accordingly unless you have some form of special talent.

But if you're working for a company, you are technically UNDERPAID anyway, and receiving maybe 5%-15% of your total value. Companies merely use you to make money for them and give you a small commission for it. If you take the revenue of Wal-Mart and divide it by the number of employees, you'll see that each employee is worth about $225,000 on average. Yet a large contingent of them work at minimum wage, which is what... $8-$10 per hour most places?

Even for IB, an analyst might make $150,000-$200,000 per year. But even if you trivialize their work by saying they complete "PowerPoint nonsense" or a "cookie cutter DCF models" they're still working on projects that have a gross value of tens/hundreds of millions of dollars. That $150K-$200K is just a drop in the bucket relative to the value they're adding to the projects. It'd be like saying a top basketball star makes a $30M for "bouncing a ball" and doesn't do shit in life otherwise. He gets that money because that's what his economic value comes out as, and even then it is very likely he is grossly underpaid. But in a corporate structure you're worth what your salary says you are until you can prove otherwise.

If you want to be cynical about things, life is meaningless anyway. In the society we live in, you're a slave to money and then you die.

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Jul 24, 2015

"If you take the revenue of Wal-Mart and divide it by the number of employees, you'll see that each employee is worth about $225,000 on average. Yet a large contingent of them work at minimum wage, which is what... $8-$10 per hour most places?"

That statement is ridiculous. You can't just divide revenue by # of employees to establish value.... You think the average hourly employee is as valuable as the store manager, let alone CEO? You're paid $8-10 per hour because until proven otherwise, that's the value of your specific skills. And considering the talent required to unpack boxes and stock shelves, seems reasonable. Now compare that to a senior manager helps oversee a multi billion dollar international supply chain and you think there of equal value to the organization?

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Jul 24, 2015

Obviously Joey the cart pusher doesn't have the same economic value as Joe CEO. But the point I'm making is that (almost) everybody who works for a company is only receiving a fraction of his or her true economic value otherwise it would be pointless to hire that individual in the first place.

Even if Joey is making only $8/hr, he is still contributing far more economic value than that (assuming he does his job). The AVERAGE Wal-Mart employee might have the skill set on par with a manager, or maybe even the guy who hands out the salami behind the counter. Yet on a per-revenue basis, those individuals are contributing far more than their compensation dictates. But Joey doesn't get his $40+/hr and Joe CEO doesn't get his hundreds of millions per year because businesses are there to turn a profit, not break-even and give everyone a fair share of the wealth. In turn, employees are paid a percentage of what they contribute (usually 5%-15% for people who work effectively) and the market settles on those wages accordingly.

That's why people go into business. If they have the ability to carry out the intricacies that go into establishing a successful business, they can circumvent the small commission they would make as a regular employee and receive the revenue feed directly as compensation minus any expenses. That's why the wealthiest people in the world are those who started businesses and aren't standard employees. Of course, most people don't have the ability or the means to do that. They need the company as an economic platform and receive a commission of what they contribute.

Even Tim Cook (Apple CEO) is vastly underpaid. As are many athletes and entertainers who makes millions per year. Cook receives 0.2% of Apple's net income/profit/revenue (don't remember the precise metric), which is still extremely low by CEO standards. Yet his total compensation package is still north of $100 million per year. But he's "only" paid that amount because that's what the market dictates he should work for even if he's genuinely worth far more than that in terms of all contributions traceable to him.

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Jul 24, 2015

As a 19 year old college student I have to agree with you that no one is entitled to anything. However, I do think people deserve a chance to attend university, whether they squander their opportunity and skip class is up to them. The opportunity to attend post-secondary education lies entirely on your high school test scores. Lucrative careers, however, should be a product of the amount of effort taken to secure the opportunity. I believe only the strong willed and ambitious should get the position, and as you stated only those unique individuals who truly add value should be compensated. Good Read.

"same day, different shit"

Jul 24, 2015

Also, glad this got FP'd so I could send a well deserved SB to the poster.

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Jul 26, 2015

There's a simple solution for those who believe there's a gap between what their labour should fetch and what it is fetching, and that gap is absorbed by capitalists: become a capitalist yourself. If you start a business, you can pay yourself whatever you like off the profits after tax. Actually attempting this should be educational.

Jul 26, 2015
EURCHF parity:

There's a simple solution for those who believe there's a gap between what their labour should fetch and what it is fetching, and that gap is absorbed by capitalists: become a capitalist yourself. If you start a business, you can pay yourself whatever you like off the profits after tax. Actually attempting this should be educational.

+1

Jul 28, 2015

Watching Glengarry for the first time.

Is it all about the leads? lol

Jul 28, 2015

Glengarry Glen Ross is about people being put in a situation where there is no exit (the leads suck, they can't get more leads, they're too old for another job), and then being pressured to do the impossible.

It's a typical left wing "life sucks and you can't do anything about it" movie. Like Wall Street ("greed is good") and perhaps Boiler Room, various tidbits have been picked up by the business community as rallying cries totally ignoring the purpose of the director in making the movie. I didn't enjoy it because I could see quite plainly what the director was trying to do.

Jul 30, 2015

This is typical "Millennial Entitlement". Wait until his job sacks him for under-performing and he has to go work at Starbucks as a "Barista".

Aug 12, 2015

Great post. It would remind me for sure that everyday you should make progress, not just standing still, see what you got and dream like an idiot.

Aug 14, 2015

I agree with most of the post, in my opinion there are far too many universities and therefore university graduates. I attend the University of Manchester, ok it's no Yale or Cambridge but it's still has a high quality university, and a few of the students I just wonder how they made it to university yet alone a good one. In my honest opinion there should be no more than 10-15 universities in the UK (that would work out about 60 in the US), only the brightest students would go, the rest can either get a job or attend a polytechnic or other type of post-high school school.
Too many people go to university and bring down the value of the degrees, a bachelor's degree is not impressive any more.

There is a point I partly disagree with, the post is in sort blaming young people for their attitude and that's one thing I really hate, older people saying "Damn 80s and 90s kids have terrible attitudes and what not"... Who raised those kids? Who taught those kids to think how they think? They were influenced by their parents and the media, all of whom would be from pre-80s (obviously), so don't blame the younger generation for being shit when you are the ones who raised this generation.
Don't get me wrong, I think my generation is pretty f*cked as a whole and when I look at teenagers now I just think it's getting worse and worse, but when people say in a negative way "Kids nowadays" it frustrates me, yes the kids are little shites but in that case the parenting must have been pretty shite as well...

Aug 14, 2015

Are you arguing that the world should be less educated so your degree is more impressive? That is one of the most ridiculous opinions, and ironic statements on this thread.

You literally just embodied the "cancerous trend" that this thread is ranting about.

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Jan 15, 2016

I'm going to disagree with "you aren't entitled to shit." What if individuals at your firm cross the line or come close to crossing the line, with respect to treating you like an employee - to be given the same benefit of the doubt as every other employee in the same or similar circumstances as you, at your firm? Do you know what that line is? I am as much a believer in the work-your-ass-off mantra as anyone else, but this can someone's be interpreted as a license to abuse an employee.

May 23, 2016

^ Vote with your feet bro. If you add that much value, get the fuck outta that shitty work environment and trade up. I've seen both sides of the table now and trust me it's much harder to find and keep good talent.

May 23, 2016

i've always liked this post, i should send this to one of my lazy friends

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

May 23, 2016

Why are you so angry?

  • Anonymous Monkey
  •  May 24, 2016

It's meaningless to debate on meritocracy when WSO is the epitome of narcissism :D

May 24, 2016

How many of you have read any of Ayn Rand's books? Based the responses to the original post, it sounds like most of you would enjoy them.

May 24, 2016

You have to admit that being an undergrad at an Ivy, it's already an accomplishment, a tiny one but still one. By the way, I think most of the people in here are kinda already aware of what you stated

May 24, 2016

Never Happened.

May 26, 2016
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WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

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