Sell Your Options Dearly: MARRIAGE

Eddie Braverman's picture
Rank: The Pro | 21,111

Andy note: "Best of Eddie" - while Eddie is on vacation we're throwing up some of his classic posts from the past. This one from June 2010 is part of the very popular "Sell Your Options" 5-part series. More to come later this week & next. If there's an old post from Eddie you'd like to see up again shoot me a message.

Do you know why divorce is so expensive? Because it's worth it.

I don't think my advice today is going to come as a shock to any of you. In fact, if you're pressed for time, here's the takeaway: Don't get married, especially in your 20's.

Now, before I delve into the post, I have to point out a few key things. First, take my advice with a whole shaker of salt. After all, I've walked down the aisle of doom three times now. Second, I have to measure my words carefully because I am happily married now, my wife might someday get bored enough to read this, and I'd like to get laid again before I die. Fear not; I'll still give you the straight scoop like I always do. I'll probably just refrain from pointing out that dipping your privates in battery acid is a better move than getting married.

The fact is, you're going to get married. You might as well get your head around it now. Marriage is the fate of the vast majority of humanity. According to Census Bureau statistics, 95% of men and women have been married by age 55. Ninety-five percent. So odds are it's gonna happen to you.

Let me get the rest of the statistics out of the way up front, because they're scary but not particularly effective in dissuading people from taking the plunge. I attribute that to the fact that our heads tell us it's a bad idea, but our hearts tell us that we're the exception and not the rule. Just keep in mind that every divorced couple who made up these stats also thought they were the exception and not the rule.

If you get married before age 20, you've actually got a halfway decent shot of making it to the finish line. Only 11.7% of men who got divorced were married before age 20. Who knew shotgun weddings were the way to go? In fairness, the numbers are little different for women. 27.6% of women who got divorced were married before age 20. I attribute the disparity to the number of 50-year old guys who marry 19-year old girls and then trade them in for a newer model when they reach drinking age.

If you get married in your 20's, however, the numbers get downright ugly. We often hear the statistic that 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and that's kinda true, but it comes from aggregate numbers. The real number is even higher if you get married in your 20's (53% for women and 61.1% for men). This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who wound up divorced got married before age 30. Still like your odds?

I can already hear some of you saying that it won't happen to you because you're not like other guys. You're completely committed, you understand what that commitment means, maybe you're deeply religious and divorce is anathema to you, you'll never leave your wife. I feel you, brother. But let me lay a little more truth on you.

Today 80% of divorce filings are unilateral. That means no matter how committed you are, how happy you are, how much you love your wife and would never leave her, there's a good chance statistically that she might leave you. Nothing you can do about that. People change, even if you don't.

The odds are downright abysmal for multiple marriage guys like me. 67% of second marriages and 74% of third marriages end in divorce. Larry King isn't doing us any favors.

So why is marriage such a bad idea, especially when you're young? I'll never claim to be an expert, but I can definitely give you a perspective from the trenches.

I was 21 the first time I got married. She was beautiful, cool, and I didn't expect to live very long. True story. It's a lot easier to make a lifetime commitment when you think you might get your ticket punched any day. If I'd had the decency to take the dirt nap a couple months later, it would have gone down as one of history's great marriages.

But that's not how things worked out. We pulled in the same direction for a while, and she was a great cheerleader for me when it came to getting into finance. Once I started making some real money, though, things changed.

So I'm surrounded by guys my age making bank and going out partying just about every night, just having a blast, and I have to go home to my wife and house. On top of that, she was three years older than me, so her biological clock was becoming a factor. I was looking to party like a rock star and she was looking to settle down.

I would call our divorce amicable. And why not? She got everything. In order to forgo alimony payments and to keep her quiet about a few trades I'd made that weren't exactly kosher, I left my house with a duffel bag of clothes and nothing else. She got the house, the furniture, the SUV, hell, she even got my dog. Expensive lesson.

I got married for the second time when I was 29. She was beautiful too, but mean as a snake. You know your marriage hasn't got a snowball's chance in Hell when you find yourself lusting after the hot limo driver in the short skirt who just delivered your bride-to-be to the wedding ceremony.

Don't ever marry a climber. Especially a low-rent climber. I was a commodities trader at the time and, as far as she was concerned, I was her golden ticket to the show. This works out fine as long as you're not legally bound to a golddigger. My lawyer threatened to fire me as a client if I didn't maker her sign a pre-nup. She called my bluff by saying she'd sign it, so I let her off the hook. Oops.

Didn't take that marriage long to implode at all. Same deal as the first one: she got the lovely parting gifts, and I got the room at the YMCA. Such is life.

My point in mentioning these two disasters is not merely to entertain you. It's important to realize that when you're young, especially in your early 20's, you're way too selfish for marriage. And I know you don't realize that. Think about it. Everything you've done in life up until now is for you. It may have been done at your parents' behest, but it's all for your benefit. If you're being honest with yourself, you are all you've really thought of up until now.

Now, put someone on the other side of that equation. She's every bit as selfish as you are, and maybe even moreso. And she doesn't realize it either. You're each getting married for your own selfish reasons, what you think you're going to get out of it, and you're not thinking about what it requires to make a marriage work.

Men go into marriage thinking nothing will change. Women go into marriage thinking everything will change. Both are sorely disappointed. Marriage takes an absolutely backbreaking level of compromise to make it work. Not negotiation, mind you. Compromise. In a negotiation you can come to a win-win solution. Compromise is always lose-lose.

You're going to give up things that are sacrosanct to you, and she's going to look at you like you haven't given an inch. You're going to do the same to her. It takes a great deal of maturity, more than I ever had in my 20's, to find the middle ground where there is mutual contentment rather than mutual misery.

I'm going to say one more thing about what I think is critical to a successful marriage and then I'll wrap this up with a few final thoughts. I'm about to celebrate my 8th anniversary with my third (and you'd better believe final) wife. She's lasted longer than the other two combined, and she's the great love of my life. She has proven to me that marriage is worthwhile if done properly, and I'm a better man for just being around her. A bad marriage can ruin your life, but a good marriage can turn you into the person you were meant to become.

I think the foundational key to our success is our shared family background. She's not my cousin, if that's what you perverts are thinking. What I mean by that is that we were both raised in essentially the same environment. (Two-parent household, dad worked, mom stayed home and raised the kids, etc...) Now, that might not be your background, and it's no big deal if it isn't. But you'd be well served to find someone who was raised like you. Half a billion Indians in arranged marriages can't be wrong.

Mind you, I'm not saying opposites don't attract. My wife is my polar opposite in many ways, and it adds spice to the gumbo. But when you know where someone comes from, it's easier to know where they're coming from. If you know what I mean.

So, to recap. It's a bad idea to get married in your 20's (especially your early 20's) because you've got long odds against you, you're way too selfish to pull it off and you don't even realize it, and most of all, you should be having a good fucking time in your 20's!

Use that time to see the world, to establish yourself in business, to make yourself someone worth knowing. Legally binding yourself to another human being at that age should be inconceivable to you.

Finally, I feel like I have to talk about the notion of marrying "well". I'm sure there's one of you out there right now, maybe more, saying, "You don't know shit, Eddie. My girl's family is filthy rich and when I marry her, I'm set for life." That's all well and fine, but you've got to ask yourself a few questions.

First of all, do you think the family has remained wealthy because her father has turned over the family jewels to every lower-middle class shlub who managed to diddle his little princess after a 4-pack of wine coolers? Me neither. They might let you see it, they might even let you smell it, but they'll never let you touch it.

Second, you have to ask yourself if you're willing to carry the piss bucket. It's your price of admission. If you can swallow your pride and sell your dignity, maybe you've got a shot. I could never do it. Plus rich chicks are a pain in the ass.

This went way longer than I intended, but I hope I've passed along some solid food for thought. Mostly, just remember that you're only young once. It's hard to tear the ass out of life when you're dragging around baggage.

One last thing for the younger guys. You know that thing about your girl, that thing that makes her so special to you? The thing that makes you think she's "The One"? Yeah. Every other girl on the planet has one of those too.

Just saying.

Resources:
http://www.divorcerate.org/
http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm

Comments (69)

Jun 16, 2010

hit it and quit babayy

"Don't just stare at it, eat it!" - PB

Jun 16, 2010
Edmundo Braverman:

If you get married before age 20, you've actually got a halfway decent shot of making it to the finish line. Only 11.7% of men who got married before age 20 ended up divorced. Who knew shotgun weddings were the way to go? In fairness, the numbers are little different for women. 27.6% of women married before age 20 ended up divorced. I attribute the disparity to the number of 50-year old guys who marry 19-year old girls and then trade them in for a newer model when they reach drinking age.

If you get married in your 20's, however, the numbers get downright ugly. We often hear the statistic that 50% of marriages end up in divorce, and that's kinda true, but it comes from aggregate numbers. The real number is even higher if you get married in your 20's (53% for women and 61.1% for men). This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who got married before age 30 wound up divorced. Still like your odds?
http://www.divorcerate.org/ http://www.meninmarriage.com/article05.htm

Edmundo,

Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but you are reading the stats wrong. The stats on divorcerate.org are not the percentage of married people who get divorced, but the percentage of divorced people by age.

So it's not 11.7% of men who got married before age 20 ended up divorced, but 11.7% of divorced men were under the age of 20 when they were married. 88.3% is the percentage of male divorcees that were older than 20 when they were married, not the percentage of men who got married before 20 and are still married. And so on and so forth for the rest of the stats.

Oct 10, 2015

.....

Jun 16, 2010

Wow, nice catch Elijah. I thought those numbers seemed awfully high. If I'm reading it correctly now, it is saying that 11.7% of divorced males got married before 20, etc...

So my extrapolation is way off.

Jun 16, 2010
Edmundo Braverman:

One last thing for the younger guys. You know that thing about your girl, that thing that makes her so special to you? The thing that makes you think she's "The One"? Yeah. Every other girl on the planet has one of those too.

Just saying.

ahhahaha thank you so much.

John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers:
http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com

Jun 16, 2010

Sorry guys. I fixed it. Now the post accurately reflects the data.

Jun 16, 2010

Great post, once again.

My parents met at 16 flipping burgers at McDonald's. They got married at 22, and have been happy ever since (now 50). Anyway, I used to think I wanted just that, to find someone early in life and settle down. Recently, I've been rethinking that philosophy, and this post only helped to affirm this new perspective. Your point about each person being selfish in their early 20's is dead on. I look forward to the rest of this series. Thanks again man

Jun 16, 2010
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

Great post, once again.

My parents met at 16 flipping burgers at McDonald's. They got married at 22, and have been happy ever since (now 50). Anyway, I used to think I wanted just that, to find someone early in life and settle down. Recently, I've been rethinking that philosophy, and this post only helped to affirm this new perspective. Your point about each person being selfish in their early 20's is dead on. I look forward to the rest of this series. Thanks again man

you definitely dream of meeting the perfect girl at motherburger.

John Tabacco's raw, unique market commentary based on real information from real short sellers:
http://www.TheDailyShortReport.com

Jun 16, 2010
blong131:
<span class=keyword_link><a href=//www.wallstreetoasis.com/finance-dictionary/what-is... rel=nofollow>LIBOR</a></span>:

Great post, once again.

My parents met at 16 flipping burgers at McDonald's. They got married at 22, and have been happy ever since (now 50). Anyway, I used to think I wanted just that, to find someone early in life and settle down. Recently, I've been rethinking that philosophy, and this post only helped to affirm this new perspective. Your point about each person being selfish in their early 20's is dead on. I look forward to the rest of this series. Thanks again man

you definitely dream of meeting the perfect girl at motherburger.

i went there today for lunch with two girls... oh yeah

Best Response
Jun 16, 2010

Love it- All I have to say is... marry an ugly woman. Seriously. I currently date a hot and fun girl that comes from a wealthy family, and man what a pain in the ass. I come from a very middle class background. She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity and we have arguments because she thinks we need to leave it on 72 during the day for our DOG. Nothing is ever good enough. We have an 1100 sq ft 1.5 bed 2 bath apartment in a fantastic building with a pool, hot tub, gym, movie theater, virtual golf, bbq's firepit, river views, dog run, playground, even a farking yoga room, and she complains its too small. We have a 6x6 walk in closet that she takes up 85% of and bitches she doesn't have enough room. I actually force her to throw something out when she goes shopping now. Going out to a chain restaurant "doesn't count" as taking her out. When it comes to bed, I am not even that interested anymore because she is 100% focused on herself. She has never had to learn the value of a dollar because her parents paid her rent when she got out of college and was working an entry level job.

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

I am going to stop because I am on the verge of rambling if I am not passed that already. My point is- that hot girl in the designer dress at the club asking for a drink too soon is bound to give you nothing but trouble. That hot body is guaranteed to look pretty crappy in 10 years, and she will be convinced she needs even more expensive clothes to cover it up, and wants to move back into a 3000+ sq ft house ASAP. Marry the girl who expects little and appreciates whatever comes her way. You will be WAY happier.

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Jun 16, 2010
someotherguy:

She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity

Sounds like my kind of girl. I blast that A/C like I'm refrigerating the house. I sleep in the cryogenic freeze everynight.

Jun 16, 2010
someotherguy:

Love it- All I have to say is... marry an ugly woman. Seriously. I currently date a hot and fun girl that comes from a wealthy family, and man what a pain in the ass. I come from a very middle class background. She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity and we have arguments because she thinks we need to leave it on 72 during the day for our DOG. Nothing is ever good enough. We have an 1100 sq ft 1.5 bed 2 bath apartment in a fantastic building with a pool, hot tub, gym, movie theater, virtual golf, bbq's firepit, river views, dog run, playground, even a farking yoga room, and she complains its too small. We have a 6x6 walk in closet that she takes up 85% of and bitches she doesn't have enough room. I actually force her to throw something out when she goes shopping now. Going out to a chain restaurant "doesn't count" as taking her out. When it comes to bed, I am not even that interested anymore because she is 100% focused on herself. She has never had to learn the value of a dollar because her parents paid her rent when she got out of college and was working an entry level job.

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

I am going to stop because I am on the verge of rambling if I am not passed that already. My point is- that hot girl in the designer dress at the club asking for a drink too soon is bound to give you nothing but trouble. That hot body is guaranteed to look pretty crappy in 10 years, and she will be convinced she needs even more expensive clothes to cover it up, and wants to move back into a 3000+ sq ft house ASAP. Marry the girl who expects little and appreciates whatever comes her way. You will be WAY happier.

1- you won't meet a wife at a club

2- why are you still with this woman-child if she is so bothersome?

3- bragging about your apartment to anonymous posters = gay

"The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher." - Oscar Wilde

Jun 16, 2010
veritas14:

1- you won't meet a wife at a club

Au contraire, mon frere. I met all 3 of my wives in a bar. It's the only place you're gonna meet a guy like me.

Jun 16, 2010
someotherguy:

Love it- All I have to say is... marry an ugly woman. Seriously. I currently date a hot and fun girl that comes from a wealthy family, and man what a pain in the ass. I come from a very middle class background. She considers central air conditioning something vitally necessary for the survival of humanity and we have arguments because she thinks we need to leave it on 72 during the day for our DOG. Nothing is ever good enough. We have an 1100 sq ft 1.5 bed 2 bath apartment in a fantastic building with a pool, hot tub, gym, movie theater, virtual golf, bbq's firepit, river views, dog run, playground, even a farking yoga room, and she complains its too small. We have a 6x6 walk in closet that she takes up 85% of and bitches she doesn't have enough room. I actually force her to throw something out when she goes shopping now. Going out to a chain restaurant "doesn't count" as taking her out. When it comes to bed, I am not even that interested anymore because she is 100% focused on herself. She has never had to learn the value of a dollar because her parents paid her rent when she got out of college and was working an entry level job.

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

I am going to stop because I am on the verge of rambling if I am not passed that already. My point is- that hot girl in the designer dress at the club asking for a drink too soon is bound to give you nothing but trouble. That hot body is guaranteed to look pretty crappy in 10 years, and she will be convinced she needs even more expensive clothes to cover it up, and wants to move back into a 3000+ sq ft house ASAP. Marry the girl who expects little and appreciates whatever comes her way. You will be WAY happier.

good lord, your building is sick. is it a condo or rental? if the latter my guess is you live in the chelsea landmark.

Jun 16, 2010
someotherguy:

My ex, who I regret ditching often, was rather homely. She wasn't fat or hideous, but I definitely didn't have to worry about her going out to the bars and getting hit on. She was also rather boring- kind of what was alluded to in your post, I was going through my crazy party all the time phase with tons of friends, and she was painfully shy and quiet and would more or less just sit in the corner at the bar and wait for me to tell her its time to go home. I dumper her because of this. Yet she came from a very middle class background as well- her parents delightfully showed me pictures of her in their apartment in queens running around naked at 6 years old because they didn't have A/C. She appreciated everything I did for her- she would even buy dessert or drinks after if I bought her dinner. Living in an apt complex on the water w/ roommates was impressive to her. A reasonably sized but dumpy walk up in Williamsburg that was close to the train was all she ever wanted in life. We never fought- we had exactly one fight where I was mad at her for a mistake she unintentionally made that I got over in about 10 minutes. She f'ed like a champ and I get a lot more excited thinking about her than I do w/ my current woman who has an ass you can bounce a quarter off of (which costs a grand every 3 months for personal training).

haha whats your ex up to these days? i'd go find her if i were you...or just give me her info

Jun 16, 2010

"Let us leave the beautiful women to men with no imagination..." - Marcel Proust

Jun 16, 2010
Edmundo Braverman:

"Let us leave the beautiful women to men with no imagination..." - Marcel Proust

What the f*ck does that mean?

Jun 16, 2010

Great post! Obviously, there are exceptions to the rule and MOST readers understand that.

If if don't make dollars, it don't make sense.

Jun 16, 2010

If she doesn't sign the pre-nup it's over, no fairy tale forever together bs.

=========================================
We are excited to formally extend to you an offer to join Bank of Ameria

Jun 16, 2010

Great post.

The issue is that the grass is always greener on the other side, and for that, men are doomed to failure. (okay, atleast most of us).

Jun 16, 2010

Agree 100% with the selfishness part. Not sure whether others identify with this, but I recognize that I'm far too selfish to offer/sacrifice anything that would be a long-term incentive for them to stick around. Since they're going to end up taking half (or worse) of my stuff anyway, why bother?

Jun 16, 2010

Also, Proust was a homosexual so he would probably find it easy to leave the beautiful women to other men.

Jun 16, 2010
chewingum:

Also, Proust was a homosexual so he would probably find it easy to leave the beautiful women to other men.

That would make sense.

Jun 16, 2010

Quoting Neo "there is no spoon,". You're fucked the minute you enter into a legally binding fudiciary agreement with a woman.

Jun 16, 2010

Amen.

Jun 16, 2010

Lol... "there... is no spoon..."

Jun 16, 2010

I disagree with this post and think it crosses the line of what this blog was intended for. At any rate, success in marriage is achieved by living and applying correct principles regardless of whether you are in your 20's, 30's ...... etc.

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Jun 16, 2010

Oh uncle Eddie, I suspect vacations @ yours are never boring. Great tale.

@someotherguy: sounds like you're holding on to hell just to claim the badge of dating someone hotter than you. +your 1 bad experience doesn't establish that all beautiful (whatever that means) women are whiny bizatches.

Jun 16, 2010

1) Always get a Pre Nup

2) Grow some balls and keep them. Too many men do not relish battling. Once you know you can get ass having the one you got leave because you put your foot down isn't a life ending event

3) You might be alone, but you are not lonely. Huge difference.

4) Marriage is a lot like homeownership, kids, taxes and speed limits. Bullshit you are fed from birth that people think they must do or follow. Try being different, might surprise yourself.

PS. My parents have been married for 30+ years

When it comes to ass, remember kids "rent, don't buy"

Jun 16, 2010

LOL @ TonyD

Ask any pilot, yachtsman, or husband:

If it flies, floats, or fucks, you're better off renting it!

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Jun 16, 2010

Interesting to see all these male perspectives. Me, I personally feel that 40s is the best time for men to get married. By that age they should know themselves well and consequently, know how to treat others.

The one sad truth though is that men are like art. They appreciate overtime. Women are like cars. They lose value as soon as ya drive'em outta the dealership. This post seems directed toward the gents, but I have to say: Ladies, think thrice before you put that 24k rock on your finger!

Look at that subtle off-white coloring. The tasteful thickness of it. Oh my God, it even has a watermark.

Jun 16, 2010

Quick advice for people from other parts of the world, especially poorer nations (in my case). If it is possible date women who have same background as you. Very similar to what Edmundo wrote, you will understand where you are coming from.

Jun 16, 2010

I've been trying to preach to my small town friends about how absolutely stupid it is to get married for about 3 years no..around the age of 19-23. I forget That most really don't have much going for them and have absolutely boring lifes with nothing to look forward to but marriage/kids/ working as a pipe liner or oil rig roughneck. It's amazing how small town societies function.

Jun 16, 2010

Your use of statistics is criminal. None of the stats you listed establish anything. I was going to point out the mistakes but there are far too many to bother.

Strip that away, and all that's left are bitter, subjective tirades with no substance or anything in the way of evidence except "experience" - experience of your own foolhardy mistakes.

And any mention of a prenup is laughable...

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Jun 16, 2010

His use of statistics maybe wrong and an individual is not a statistic. However despite the misinterpretation the fact remains that of all individuals that divorce, the majority married in the 20-24 category.Even the misinterpreted statistics still serves adequately to get the point across that although your emotions our clouding your judgement into thinking you will stay together for judgement day, it probably will not happen.

That being said if one is intelligent, reflective, sufficiently well researched in the topic of marriage and human relationships, and reviews this decision critically and cool headedly the point at which one marries does not matter, what solely matters is that one is able to evaluate the decision critically. Of course this becomes easier with experience and age, something that can only be acquired through life experience so to speak.

iamcroissant, why the overly spiteful destruction of his post? Any insecurities of your own?

What I do find itneresting tough with the statistics is causation isnt entirely clear. Sure one can argue that people that marry at an older age are wiser and have learned earlier lessons, however one can also argue that beyond a certain age once is forced to stay commit as remarriage is not an option anymore(especially for woman), differentiating between those 2 effects is difficult.

Jun 16, 2010

The above thought is smart and doesn't require any further addition. It's perfect thought from my side.
. This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone
Compare ISAs
thanks

Jun 16, 2010

Wow, Edmundo, I think I'm gonna keep this one, it's that good. There is a book deal here somewhere.

Jun 16, 2010
Edmundo Braverman:

This basically means that 72.8% of men and 80.6% of women who wound up divorced got married before age 30.

Although this is a correct statement, it is probably misleading a lot of people. You should probably mention the fact that most people get married before they are 30, so it MAKES SENSE that most divorced couples happened to get married before they were 30. For example, here's some fake data on cars that blow up:

of blue cars that blow up: 1

of red cars that blow up: 3

Then you take that info and say the following: 75% of cars that blew up were red. But you fail to mention the following:

of blue cars in the world: 3

of red cars in the world: 7

Of course 75% of cars that blew up were red.... 70% of the cars in the world are red!!!! Edmundo, you completely left out the information about the percentage of couples that get married before they're 30. That would completely change the reaction to your statement.

Overall, great post. Here's how I look at it: don't rush marriage, but don't run off the love of your life because you're afraid of what your friends might think when you tell them you're getting married. Follow your heart, but be smart about it.

Jun 16, 2010

What I take from this is that you should marry because you feel like that you only want to be with one person for the rest of your life. I don't think most people go into marriage thinking like that. They get married because they love someone or because of the social pressure or because of the thought of raising a family. That's all well and good but if both parties aren't committed to being with one person in perpetuity, then chances are it's not going to work out.

Jun 16, 2010

One of your best! I agree most of the points you have made.

Jun 16, 2010

I think the whole concept of waiting on marriage can be boiled down to this:

Wait until everything in your life is fully stabilized and then get married.

Basically, in our 20's so much is changing, careers, education, location, friends, relationships, lifestyle, etc. We don't know what we want and we are still experimenting. Sure you can be in a relationship and be in love and want to marry but we are still growing as individuals during this time period. Maybe your girlfriend doesn't mind your hours now but will grow to resent them later. Maybe you want to live abroad but she doesn't want to. Maybe she wants to go to grad school in another state. Who knows what can happen in this adjustment period. Its easy to grow apart. There is nothing wrong with that, its just life. Trying to grow and find yourself while being connected so someone else can be difficult and the statistics show this. I'm not saying to not have relationships but maybe you should slow down and not actually get married. Wait it out if you are still in your 20's and make sure you are growing together and not apart. Once everything more or less stabilized then propose and get married. Your stability will not insure a successful marriage but I'm sure it will help, numbers don't lie.

Then again, what do I know.

Jun 16, 2010

I'm really not in much of a position to shell out relationship/marriage advice, but I think Edmundo is REALLY on to something in suggesting that the closer both people are in background/family life, the better. I had a very middle class life growing up with periods of lower middle income due to some family situations, and I found that my two best relationships were with girls who came from similar backgrounds (both were first generation americans whose parents moved here from Asia / Russia). I've dated girls from upper middle class backgrounds who had everything handed to them throughout life (although none would admit it or are even aware of it) and in retrospect I was foolish to think there was long term potential.

My parents were happily married and came from shockingly similar childhoods and backgrounds, right down to the breakdown of where their ancestors came from on both sides.

Jun 17, 2010

Totally agree with the "same background" idea. Arranged marriages in my country last much longer than the other marriage. BTW our parents are usually wiser than us.

Jun 17, 2010

im a firm believer in learning from other peoples actions, i really appreciate edmundo putting his experience, his lessons and thoughts together and trying to guide the younger generation. its evident from the posts that the people who should really follow this advice and reconsider their actions are somehow trying to "justify" their decisions, and they feel they are the exception and not the rule.

now even though im not in much of a positions to be giving advice hence ive never been married i want to say that; woman are on the sell side in the beginning while dating. by that i mean they are selling themselves as "a catch", they want to appear as perfect as possible. but the reality is only their true personality will come out after the ring is on the finger and your living together and virtually bonded by a legal contract. its only then when living day to day; sleeping in the same bed, seeing each other first thing in the morning and last thing at night, dealing with each others stress, issues, and problems. this is when peoples true colors come out, sadly at that point its too late and while you thought you were the exception and not the rule think back and remember that edmundo tried to warn you

Jun 17, 2010

We are taking longer to finish school, establish careers, form an identity beyond adolescent behavior.
Marriage and parenthood --- goods for the individual, family and society-- are now seen as just another option, an "alternative", a "lifestyle choice".

Human biology does not obey our ideas of the good life. Biological clock is ticking...

"The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher." - Oscar Wilde

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Jun 17, 2010

Human biology also never intended us to wear shoes, eat processed carbohydrates or possess washing machines.

Ill see you in the cave bro

Jun 17, 2010
streetn:

Human biology also never intended us to wear shoes, eat processed carbohydrates or possess washing machines.

Ill see you in the cave bro

And the species would survive without them.

Neglecting reproduction until we are minimally fertile 38 year olds? A bit more dangerous

"The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher." - Oscar Wilde

Jun 18, 2010
veritas14:
streetn:

Human biology also never intended us to wear shoes, eat processed carbohydrates or possess washing machines.

Ill see you in the cave bro

And the species would survive without them.

Neglecting reproduction until we are minimally fertile 38 year olds? A bit more dangerous

I am pretty sure the earth could handle a few less billion of us. Get real. Biological clock is code word for women bitching because they don't have kids and all of their friends have kids.

With the advances of medicine as well as personal fitness and health I think it is perfectly fine to have kids in your 30's. Not to mention people who wait to have children tend to be better educated and have time to actually plan and save for a child. I have met very few 20-23 year olds who are emotionally, mentally and fiscally sound enough to enter into marriage and start pumping out kids. I don't understand the huge rush either, even if you are dating someone for an extended period of time simply wait.

As for the poster previously who thought a pre nup is laughable. I wonder why? I personally feel that both parties bring something to the table. Mine is mine and yours is yours and ours is ours. If the marriage fails why should one party gouge the other? It is rare that you ever see men coming out of a divorce financially better than a woman.

Boys, any one who balks when you mention a pre nup is not someone you want to marry. You have been warned!

Jun 17, 2010

Thanks for all your posts Eddy, we all can learn a lot from you

Jun 18, 2010
Edmundo Braverman:

My point in mentioning these two disasters is not merely to entertain you. It's important to realize that when you're young, especially in your early 20's, you're way too selfish for marriage.

I think this comment hit the nail on the head, so bravo. It's even been said that when young people get married, it cannot be out of love, because they're scarcely capable of it. You just marry someone because you're attracted to them, and then learn to love them over time.

I'll comment that selfishness is not exclusive to one's 20s. It's not something that just goes away on its own - although I'll agree that as a rule we tend to be more selfish when we're young, and sort of learn to be less selfish as life knocks that selfishness out of us.

We're all too f-ing selfish these days. It's also the reason nobody wants kids. It's the reason we give kids up for adoption, and it's the reason we have so many abortions now.

We also have a consumer mindset. We're almost conditioned to think of a wife as something like hired help, except for free - sex, cooking, laundry service. Women have their own expectations of men from their end. We expect to get stuff. We don't really expect to have to give. We're not really prepared for the reality that, as Edmundo pointed out, marriage demands brutal compromise and unselfishness. It demands giving up parts of yourself, and accepting your wife or husband in spite of all their flaws.

We don't naturally do that first off, and we don't even really have this as an expectation when we go into marriage. It's like setting off to climb Mount Everest in some gym shorts, with a few cans of spam, and a boatload of optimism.

Marriage demands unselfishness and love, but it also teaches it. Kids go even farther than that - they're the ultimate counter to selfishness. They just take and take, many times without so much as a thank you or even a smile in return (I have no clue how my parents put up with me when I was a teenager). But still, you give, because you love them.

Nothing wrong with marriage. But Edmundo's warning about selfishness is right on the money.

Jun 19, 2010

As for the poster previously who thought a pre nup is laughable. I wonder why?

They often get thrown out by the court. I'm not sure whether this was the OP's point, but depending on them for absolute protection is probably a bad idea.

Jun 24, 2010

Lets get real about this arranged marriage thing.

First, you can't look at the data and say that its the best thing since sliced bread because the divorce rate is so low. The fact is, the reason the divorce rate is so low is probably because of the same reasons the people got married in the first place...culture and beliefs. If someone is willing to commit to spending the rest of their life with someone they don't really know because they are expected too, its not that far fetched to think that they might just stay in that union because of the fear they have about breaking the expectations that you should just deal with the problems and make things work.

With that said, I will admit I don't know much about arranged marriages other than the stereotypes portrayed in movies and such but there is no doubt in my mind that there are many unhappy couples in arranged marriages that would like to be else where but would never actually leave because they wouldn't have the support of their family and they would be going against their cultural/religious beliefs.

Regards

Dec 16, 2010

I just want to thank Uncle Eddie for some of the most memorable stories.

Dec 16, 2010

@Veritas - My parents could of aborted me for all I care.

This is not Malthusian, this is just my opinion. There are too many humans on the planet. I don't think there is any gain from having 8 Billion people vs 6 Billion people. I support birth control and abortion. Cavemen fucked tons of women out of an desire to promote their DNA. I am not a caveman. I will die one day and having another human who shares "my" DNA (we all share the same DNA) is not going to make me live forever.

Intrinsic dignity? Yeah right. I love being a human, but I am under no illusions that we are some magical specials. You ever look at ants running around? That is what we look like from a mile up.

I will believe in the "dignity" of man the day we stop slaughtering ourselves over silly issues. If anything, the true species with dignity would be some sort of animal since "wild" creatures tend to be more civil and rational towards each other than us humans are.

Dec 16, 2010

I refuse to even consider dating girls at 22 who gets married

Nov 22, 2011

Ironic that had I read (and listened to) this article when it was first published, I could've saved myself some serious coin and a big pain-in-the-ass...oh well, starter marriage out the way!

Nov 22, 2011
milehigh:

Ironic that had I read (and listened to) this article when it was first published, I could've saved myself some serious coin and a big pain-in-the-ass...oh well, starter marriage out the way!

You got married and divorced in a year and a half?!

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Dec 20, 2011
happypantsmcgee:
milehigh:

Ironic that had I read (and listened to) this article when it was first published, I could've saved myself some serious coin and a big pain-in-the-ass...oh well, starter marriage out the way!

You got married and divorced in a year and a half?!

Unfortunately yes, but believe me, I'm better off.

Jun 27, 2012

I was going to post in this based on my experience in forensic accounting (the people that get called in when you get a divorce), but I'll leave that for a thread of its own. If you understand the system it's really easy to beat, but yes, only an careless person, or uninformed loses significant amounts in a divorce.

Jun 27, 2012

in some cases people change and your wife can change as well, not all the divorces are about money and hate, some are also about no choosing the same direction in life than your partner and that should be said.

in the large majority of cases however I think you are 100% liable for your choice, at the end of the day you choose your wife, no one forces you to do so. I am tired of all the excuses about "wife wanted the money, etc..." The same people on this thread who value modelling skills and business skills are unable to recognize that they have poor skills at reading people. If you are getting married 3 times the problem is certainly coming from your lack of jugement rather than other people changing or being different...when people make money they take all the credit but when failure come it's all about the others...I don't get it

Jun 27, 2012
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