Hey guys, was curious to get a LO AM comp update at various levels. Obviously lot of info on this site, but much of it is 5-10yrs old when the industry was in a much better place (clients at my shop for instance used to come in at 50bps, today it is 40bps -- and this is not even the worst, I know clients at another top shop at coming at in 30bps which is absurd). Anyway, specifically looking for the updates for top 10% of shops that are actually doing well at various levels including:
Junior Associate (Entry Level):
Senior Associate (2-4yrs in):
Junior Analyst (5-15yrs in):
Senior Analyst (10-20yrs in):
Leaving out PM in this case that can be more wildly variable on performance / AUM levels / etc which is not to the same extent as levels below. Much appreciated
Interested--since recruiting isn't as standardized in LO AM, especially at the associate level, I feel like comp figures can be all over the place compared to IB. As an intern at an AM that's well-regarded for equities, I've heard that analysts start at 300k+ TC and it scales from there. I've also heard from someone who's entering as a junior associate at another AM--also very well-regarded for equities--that starting comp at that level is around 120k-130k.
Can only speak on post MBA analyst - concur with guy above me that ~$300K is the right ballpark. Path to low seven figures pretty clear cut for an analyst with solid performance / coverage. To make more than that you need to be a PM or a Partner at one of the Partnerships
Yup, I've heard 300k starting is the right benchmark. Though I don't know that low-7 figures is achievable for most senior analysts anymore. Agreed that would have made sense 15yrs ago but that was when fees were >70bps (sometimes even 100) while today it is closer to 30-40. My impression is that for a sr. analyst the comp is closer to 500-700k. Still good but nowhere near what it used to be. Obviously for a truly top tier senior analyst at a top shop I can see 7 figures but for vast majority that will be out of reach (ex being in the partnership)
Fair enough. Devil’s in the details here depending on the firm, coverage, and performance. I am definitely more familiar with the partnerships
Very generally speaking, industry wide:
Jr. Assoc: 85-100k
Sr. Assoc: 100-150k
Jr. Analyst: 200-300k
Sr. Analyst: 300k+
As I'm sure you're all aware, it really depends on the firm; my estimates are probably skewed downwards a bit, but that's what I've seen. Some of the lower paying shops out there have been raising base and bonuses to stay competitive which has been a decent sign. I know shops where relatively senior analysts (10+ years exp.) are "only" pulling 300 or so per year. Personally, I think that's still a great line of work since you're "only" working 40-50hrs a week generally and the work itself is incredibly enjoyable if this is your thing.
Can I ask what factors would make an AM firm pay relatively less? (AuM per head, maybe?) It feels like there’s a big gap between a very senior analyst making the same as a fresh analyst at another shop. Same with a new associate making 85 vs 120 at different places. To be frank, I haven’t been exposed to many different kinds of AM firms, and possibly it’s typical that pay varies widely.
Bump
This is lower than what it is at my Tier 1 LO AM shop (Fidelity/Wellington). We recently bumped research associate roles to TC of ~120k. Senior analyst is also ~400K.
Just to be clear, is the $400k for a senior analyst in reference to 1st year TC for post-MBA analysts, or several years of experience beyond that? If the former, a rough sense of TC for post-MBA analysts with 3-5 years of experience would also be super helpful. Thanks
I imagine it varies from firm to firm and product to product. If I treated my career like investing and wanted to figure out where would pay the most, I’d answer a few questions first.
AUM per person
AUM growing or shrinking
Fees growing or shrinking
Investment returns
Cost of traditional talent pool
Public or private company
Based on my experience, pay is higher than what you’ve listed above.
From a friend who just joined as a post-MBA analyst at a top 5 LO: base: $150, signing: $50, guaranteed 1Y bonus: $150. Background: IB + UMM PE + M7 MBA.
Work at a large LO and this sounds about right for post-MBA Investment Analyst at my shop
Do you think there would be more inflationary pressure to raise pay? Looks like post-MBA consulting and banking pay have gone up quite significantly over the past 2 years.
I'm at a well-regarded $30+bn (this # has come down YTD) boutique
3 YOE (I joined straight out of undergrad from a non-target)
Junior analyst
TC: 250k; 150k cash and 100k deferred
The current cash component is variable depending on your + firm performance. Deferred scales up by approx $40k a year. Our structure is typically weighted 60/40 cash/deferred.
Most senior analysts are in the $400-700k TC bucket. Most PMs pull down $1m+, with some as high as $10. Firm mgmt encourages those who want to be career analysts through their 40s/50s, and these folks can earn $1-3m.
How many investment personnel for a $30b shop? All equities?
Do they force u to do a MBA? CFA? If not do u feel like ur progression through the ranks will be impacted assuming equal performance?
20B+ elite boutique in equities, junior associate (first year out of college) TC: 200k
I'm getting 100k at a 70B AUM firm, am I being underpaid or is your salary the outlier
200k definitely an outlier, though a bit higher than $100k (~$120k) wouldn’t be unexpected
AUM doesn’t matter. If you’re at factor shops or passive shops like Vanguard/Blackrock/Dimensional they’re not going to pay you the big bucks to click buttons. If you want to make the big bucks you need to show how you can contribute alpha.
My impression of the numbers being posted here is that junior pay is way too high. Most funds will not throw 300k at someone green and it takes to at least the 5-7 year mark to get there. Before that you're most likely somewhere in the 100k-200k range.
People are referring to post-MBA roles when they talk about analyst comp. Analysts are senior, while associates are junior. I agree that an associate would definitely make between 100k-150k.
That doesn't really make it make more sense. None of the funds I have been at care about an MBA, they care about actual experience. A CFA is more valuable.
2021 COMP SCALE - CLOs (post investment banking program, no MBA, no CFA)
Note: these are higher than you might remember from years ago due to recent raises, inflation, talent retention efforts seen in 2021
Assoc1 - $230k
Assoc2 - $260k
Assoc3 - $330k
VP1 - $400k
VP2 - $450k
VP3 - $500k
SVP1 - $540k
SVP2 - $560k
Please comment below if you disagree. Upvote this if you agree
personally feel corp title and yoe should be added for lfl consideration
Is 300-400K for a post-mba analyst actually right? Currently at GSB/HBS, and data I'm seeing from career center has total comp closer to 250.
Depends where you go dude. If you're looking at the bottom 80% of shops 250k is probably right. Top 20% is closer to 300-350k
Also if you're a VP in AM why did you leave for B-school vs. trying to move up internally?
.
@Mikey Mike: I went to H/S for MBA and am not sure what numbers you were looking at. I remember seeing a $50k signing bonus, $150-200k base, and $150k bonus fairly consistently across the top LOs (Capital, D&C, Wellington, etc…I would think numbers would be a tad lower at Trowe and similar AM companies that are public and/or subsidiaries of larger companies).
Given that this was a couple years ago, I’d wager most of those shops have moved more in the $350-400k range for base+bonus. I know one LO that has definitely done so.
I used to work at PIMCO. The base payscale, AFAIK, for post-MBA research:
Credit Research Analyst: $180k
VP: $225k (1.5Y post MBA)
SVP: $305k (5Y post MBA)
EVP: $340k
The bonus is substantial. But where the real money came in was at the SVP level in the form of deferred payments. PIMCO used to split deferred payments into two components: a long-term cash bonus plan, and a deferral into funds. In the former, you could defer a portion of your salary (typically up to about 40%), and in 3 years time, you'd receive up to 135% above what you contributed ($100k in, up to $235k out). Deferral into funds is self explanatory: you could invest in PIMCO and AGI funds. PMs were typically encouraged to invest in their own. I believe this also used to cover private strategies. MDs also received a very lucrative cut of the profits as they could purchase shares, but never really had much exposure to this.
What was TC like during these years you covered? Also, how many analysts would PIMCO tend to hire every year out of MBA programs?
In Credit Research, they'd hire 3 in Newport, 1 in NYC, 1 in London, and 1 in Hong Kong. In PM, they'd just hire the 1 in Newport.
Any range for total comp you can share? Thanks
what are the 10% shops? is this by AUM?
Those who know, know
Those largest ones usually been discussed on this forum are not the best in terms of pay and career development (image you’ll be covering only 10-20 stocks for the rest of your life, without opportunities to learn anything new or expand expertise)
Top 10% by AUM is not necessarily top 10% by comps. I’ve personally left Fido/Cap/T.R for smaller / boutiques funds
At my current firm (small boutique LO) it is $250-300k for senior analysts (5y post MBA).
This sounds so low... I'm 2 years out of school at 200k
Is that 200k total comp or just base? Our $250-300k is base. But we are not top 10% so most likely the comp is below the average.
Ahh, yes 150k base and rest bonus. probably expecting 10% pay increase y/y
I’m at a top long only now as a Senior Associate . ~6yoe (4 years in SS ER). TC is around $315 for the first year including sign on and will drop to $270k next year.
Curious why there is a drop? Is that based on the economy?
The drop likely comes from the signing bonus that goes away in year 2.
Yes, exactly, the step down is from the lack of a signing bonus. I obviously don’t know what my comp will be, but shooting for around $300k after raise plus bonus.
As for Associate to Senior Associate, I think around the 4 year mark in industry seems reasonable, could be done in 2-3 years, just depends on performance.
Just got an offer for $150-160K all-in at a small boutique LO after about 2 years of ER. I'd be leaving before bonus, so definitely weighing my options carefully. Would this be considered a little low given the experience compared to some of the top shops?
It may seem low compared to your old comp, but I recommend making the jump if you want to be an investor, not for the short term comp. As far as industry comps, 150-160TC for an associate seems pretty standard... while sell side experience may help with getting a foot in the door during recruiting, I think the mentality at most shops is that it doesn't count for much as far as being a good investor goes and as such, they probably won't pay you any more than the next candidate for it.
Throwing another data point in here. I’m recent MBA graduate at a decent size LO ($100-500bn)
TC will be $250 this year and was told to expect $500+ 3-5 years from now. Not in a HCOL city.
4-5 YOE (3 on sell side, now in my second on the buyside), mid sized fund (50b AUM), high yield strategy
$80k base, around 30% bonus
You’re underpaid by a lot. You should be at $200k+.
Either your fees are incredibly low or your PM is very rich…
Unfortunately I'm in Europe. The payscale is on another level (down) here. I remember someone nudging me and being like "See that guy? I heard he makes 200k!" like it was some outrageously huge amount of money.
For the record my team's AUM per head is over $1b lol
Who are supposed to be the top 10% shops
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