Switching from buy side ER role (6YRS EXP) in Pakistan to London - Nottingham Grad + CFAL2 + Excellent track record - Where do I fit in on the AM totem pole?

Hi there! 
My wife's moving to the UK as a doctor and I'll be making the switch from Pakistan to the UK sometime in 2023.
My current profile is: (all of the experience is in Pakistani equity markets only!)

  1. Bsc. Finance from the University of Nottingham + CFA L2 
  2. 2 years in sell equity research covering Banks, Power & Construction
  3. 4 years on the buy side at two MM LO AMs, first as a senior analyst and then as head of the department 
  4. Track record is excellent

I would say I have a knack for picking stocks/generating investment ideas however all of my experience is limited to the Pakistani equity market which is sort of irrelevant. I have the skills/decision making ability etc. but I'm in the weird position where my knowledge isn't really transferable to covering DM US/EU equities. I have a few questions: 

  1. I want to make it as a PM and would like to know what the career path for that should be? Traditionally its SS ER followed by AM role and that's what I've done in my own country. Do I need to repeat that or can I start on the AM side immediately. I'm more than willing to take a cut in designation until I learn the ropes. 
  2. What is the career path on the AM side and where would I fit in within it?  I assume its Junior Analyst > Senior Analyst > Junior PM > Senior PM? 
  3. What sort of compensation can I expect in London?
  4. WLB? I do not mind putting in IB type hours in the start but I would eventually like to have normal WLB. 

 

Better for u to ask some Pakistani dude. No idea how prestigious your experience is 

 

VERY tough move to the buy side as a senior and not having developed world equity experience. There is a hiring freeze just starting in the UK equity mkt, nobody is hiring even guys way more experienced than you.

I would strongly consider other finance roles. 

 

Thanks for the reply, really helpful!

I am not that keen on switching out of asset management but which finance roles do you mean? I wanted to give IB a shot but given that its even more pro-cyclical, I doubt 2023 would be a good time to break into that (especially given my unconventional background). Do you think I would have a decent shot if/when the hiring situation improves, I am flexible at moving at a junior position even, as long as I grow quickly.

 

I know this doesn't help you as you want to go to London and this is fixed income related but I have seen some Pakistani dudes go Pakistan -> Dubai/Singapore (usually changing shops) -> London/NYC (usually same shop as Dubai/Singapore so internal transfer) -> tier 1 shops in London/NYC.

If I were you I would focus on emerging/frontier funds- will be a slog to get a seat so as others suggest would think about other finance roles as a stepping stone or doing the MIF at LBS/some mid career type 1 year program to "get prestige."

You are probably going to have to take a comp hit/maybe a less prestigious job with so so WLB (more so bc you'll be grinding to get ahead rather than them making you) but no reason you cant be where you want to be in say 3-5 years.

If I were you I'd do all 3- apply to a top tier 1 year masters as a reset (in London), look for EM/frontier equity roles, and pick some other area of finance that is easy to get as a backup (London dudes chime in with what would fit but prob some kind of corporate finance type functions.)

 

Thank you, this is very helpful. The Dubai/Singapore transition route is common amongst Pakistanis but that's unfortunately not open to me as I would be moving to the UK within this year, most likely before June.

The comp hit is fine by me and of course I'd have to put in significantly more effort but that's fun in itself. 

Just a few more questions, if you could answer them. 

1) Assuming I secure a role in London in AM, do I lose out by not doing a prestigious Masters first? In the long run does it matter? I have progressed pretty quickly in my career here and my assumption is that skills on the job > degree from LBS/LSE once you get in. 
2) If you'd say it doesn't matter in the long run, what are my chances of networking aggressively to secure a role in a frontier/EM AM shop. 
3) Apart from Oxbridge, LSE, LBS, Imperial what counts as a top tier masters? Warwick/UCL? 
4) Does the degree program I do matter? Masters in Financial History for example is about 50% of the cost of MiF at LSE and I do not see what would I learn in an MiF program that's new (after 6 YRS EXP + CFA)

 

Caveat that not London based or equity focused so familiar but London based folks more helpful.

That said:

1.) Having that degree likely makes it easier to land if you lost your job or when marketing as a PM or MD down the road. Not essential if you can land first job but def helpful esp if all your degrees are from Pakistan 

2.) By June chances are pretty low given just not much time and not a lot of seats. If there is active hiring for one you’d def have a shot but few and far between (chance is not zero obviously). Over the next few years a decent chance which is why I suggest finding things to do in between.

3.) I’m less qualified on this but the Warwick and UCL would qualify and even Cass (they seem to place well in finance and may be others like that) bc really I think what you want to inquire about is job placement so I would screen off that.

4.) Similar to 3 depends on placement- if there is no difference then sure do the cheaper one. To be clear you may not get an asset management job out of these programs but could get a solid equity research or banking gig or something else that keeps you moving forward while you try to switch in to your desired field. That said you may be surprised what you can learn at some of these courses if you look hard

 
Most Helpful

Hello again everyone. 

So I've taken two steps in the past 4 months. 

1) I finally gave the GMAT and scored a 750 (Q48,V44) and 90th percentile in IR. 
2) I shifted to a Pakistani startup hedge fund that invests in the US markets and I am spending every waking hour catching up on the markets. 

I am planning to permanently move to the UK next month with my wife and now I can seriously consider a Masters in Finance or an MBA. I have a couple of questions: 

1) Should I do a Masters in Finance or an MBA? As mentioned here earlier, I want to continue to work on the buyside. I would like to eventually shift to a hedge fund and/or move into PE

The only post-op MiF programs are Cambridge, Oxford and LBS. Should I opt for these or should I instead pursue an MBA at the same schools? The MBA at LBS is nearly twice as expensive and twice as long. Everyone raves about it and I see that it opens alot of doors, but I do really need it for what I want to do? I ask because I have no interest in the academic curriculum of an MBA. The real question then is the a) the value of the MiF network vs. the MBA network 2.) How strong placements are for both programs? 

I will be applying for the August 2024 intake and graduate in 2025. Hoping that the macro environment improves by then!

 

Hey, can I PM to ask about your firm - I'm Pakistani as well so considering internships there.

Could you also shed some light on the political/economic state and how it's like living there currently, would be interested to know.

Thanks!

 

Ofcourse. Please do get in touch. 

The situation in Pakistan is bad. My call has been for a sovereign default since last year but the situation is getting dragged out. We've gotten by over the last two decades thanks to luck and benign global financial conditions. That is no longer the case. To arrest the decline in the value of the rupee, the authorities need to restructure foreign debts, restore confidence in economic management and then take it from there. All of that looks unlikely as a default, even a technical one, is political suicide. So we are getting by so far; the equity markets are flat and volumes have shrunk. 

 

I'd say MBA is better in your situation because you are someone that has multiple experiences under your belt, Master in Finance is usually for people right out of undergraduate and it usually a shot at the recruitment cycle for entry-level roles. I don't imagine you want to join entry-level roles for the buy side.

I'd say your network at MBA would be better as you will meet people who are 'experienced' as they have a minimum of 2 years' worth of experience. You should not need to worry about placement if you are a smart candidate. You will eventually figure out how things work in the UK. They are multiple PE /HF firms that hire from LBS MBA classes; I highly suggest you get LinkedIn and reach out to people who attended the LBS MBA class; Talk with the programme coordinator to understand the resources available to you regarding placement and recruitment.

IMO, you should do an MBA at a  top school like LBS, LSE, Oxbridge, Imperial, Warwick etc., yes, it's more expensive, but I believe the opportunities and benefits outweighs the costs. 

 

Thanks for the reply. 

I am not sure how relevant your information on the MiF is regarding LBS/Oxbridge? What you say is very true for the other MiF programs but these programs have a class profile where the average experience is 4 - 5 years. So many of the candidates in these classes would be my age and experience level. 

Let me know thanks!

Also as you suggested, and as have others, I am not considering the pre-experience MiF programs such as those at LSE/Imperial since these have the drawbacks you mentioned.

 

Not much to add but have you thought about joining a UK firm that invests in EM markets? The skillset is a lot more transferrable and valued.

 

I have considered that and I will definitely work on that end. My aim would be to join a firm with a great culture, great people, a good track record and a decent AUM size. A place I can eventually grow to become PM (if I perform ofcourse). 
 

I'd definitely consider EM funds, the main goal though is to work with nice competent people as there can be some nasty toxic people in Finance :P

 

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