Are non-targets cooked for MBB
Theres no way to recruit for MBB because consulting firms only recruit out of targets. I guess you can do MBA for T10 business school, but that’s so much opportunity cost just down the drain. Also, you really have to be a nut about consulting to do this.
I love how much more IB and big law are tbh. Consulting is so elitist for no reason and then they don’t even pay that great. Am I missing something here - or is it if you’re non target, don’t even think about consulting MBB or even LEK, Oliver wyman
Self bump
Self bump
You bumped your own thread twice just to argue with everyone telling you you’re wrong?
I wanted to see what people had to say
consulting firms do not recruit only out of targets. for context, i am incoming sba at mckinsey. several other ppl in my intern class come from nontarget public state universities. i would say i see more nontarget people in consulting than in IB (at least at the top ib firms). the key is to network and be in the right clubs at nontarget schools
Consulting firms are not "elitist" "for no reason." They have more specific recruiting benchmarks than banking because the business model of consulting is fundamentally different than IB. If you can't apply basic reasoning to understand the implications of consultants being client-facing then applying to MBB should be the least of your concerns.
Holding back from calling you a bumbling idiot. Think about it. Those from non-targets - maybe like wisco or Miami or something know 1000x more about socializing than a target. A northwestern grad probably couldn’t socialize if it hit them in the head. Also, if someone is even being CONSIDERED and they are a non-target. That already speaks volumes as to their character and intellect. Do you know how hard it is to overcome a stigma that you are dumb as rocks and delusional about a career in finance.
Sounds like cope. The people from HYPSM going into IB/MBB are some of the most sociable, connected, and intelligent people I know. Don't know about nontargets because the MBB I interned at didn't hire any, but I see zero material reason why nontargets would "know 1000x more about socializing than a target." That's an asinine and frankly random claim.
You clearly aren't too smart either because when I said "implications of consultants being client-facing" in stating that the "business model of consulting is fundamentally different from IB," I wasn't talking about "socializing." Socializing, holding conversations, are literally the table stakes. Rather, the point I was making is that entry-level MBB consultants are speaking directly with C-suite level clients, while entry-level bankers are moreso working on processes to support important deals. This is why consulting firms prioritize hiring from targets: they want the perception of credibility to justify the exorbitant fees clients pay, when a 22 year old analyst is talking with a CFO.
"Do you know how hard it is to overcome a stigma that you are dumb as rocks and delusional about a career in finance."
No and I don't care. No one senior in this industry will care about your bitching. No one owes you shit. Should've tried harder in high school.
Buddy I go to a target. If you two brain cells to rub together, you could have seen that. Also, the most successfu people I know in life came from nothing. I’m not talking about your retarded mds and partners; I’m talking about your bezos types. Great, I’m not asking for people to look out for me. But I would imagine that it is more impressive to come from a job target, where distractions are abundant and people look down on you, to even be able to be competitive for MBB. The credibility lies in their brilliance to make it that far. There are Indian CEOs from buttfuck in India. Do you think I give a shit about their undergrad? No, and I would imagine anyone with a brain, would trust them because of their prowess, not because of their stupid prestige. Let me clue you in on something: at my target, the people are brain dead. 60-70% Asian immigrants who u fortunately inherited the generational trauma of their parents and are CONPLETE hardos. I imagine finance is a field where you golf with your clients and discuss deals over wine or something. Not happening with these socially awkward types. Non targets who are competent are NEVER socially awkward from my experience. Let me give you another example. People on here bitch about hot blondes getting positions over them. This is not surprising. While they are little shits who can’t Ben ch press the bar, the hot blonde was likely in a sorority, grew up around affluence, and can talk out of her ass (see Elizabeth holes). A hot blonde from SMU imo will beat out your pReStIgIoUs Wharton guy with acne plastered all over his face because finance is a social game. I’m high school, when people ran for student government, was it the athletic/popular kid who was class president or the nerd that was talking Multivariable calculus. Of course, it was the popular kid. This is the same way it works in real life. The sociable non target who goes to wisco has a better social life, a more well rounded approach to life, and if they make it far enough to McKinsey, they will run circles around some retarded target kid. Whats more, because I’m feeling this covv B reaction, at my target I’m heavily involved in Greek Life. There are 2 good feats here, and after that, there is the most precipitous drop off ever recorded. If you really think that target school kids are more social or connected, why the fuck can’t I manage to recruit a PC that isn’t socially inept? Please enlighten me, I see this bullshit everyday when I walk on campus and I see a bunch of walking 1550 SATs and no real people
your so frat and cool bro hell yeah
If you're so cool, why are you tweaking on Wall Street Oasis?
It's also unclear why you are relying on stereotypical (and if you spent half a second on campus, completely inaccurate) notions of kids at certain good schools — and why you, supposedly being a student at one of these places, seem to be taking an exceptional interest in the plight of non-target students.
Wipe your mouth before the drool starts hitting your keyboard, dude.
Jokes aside, let's say there are 2 broad dimensions elite consultancies hire for out of undergrad: intellectual horsepower and people skills. To break into MBB from a non-target, you're likely 99th percentile+ in both areas, with an incredible work ethic to boot. These non-target hires (and I mean true non-target, like Bama, not UCLA or something) have a chance of "running laps" around your average MBB hire because non-target kids had to convince an MBB to hire someone from a non-prestigious background, and as others have said, put them in front of incredibly senior clients, which indicates superb ability. Also, most of these kids had the profile to get into an elite school in HS, but maybe couldn't afford tuition or there was some other externality.
However, we are looking at the top ~0.1% of non target kids. That means there is a huge selection bias. If you looked at the top 0.1% of people coming from targets, they aren't even doing banking or consulting, because they have the (intellectual horsepower + people skills) x connections > normal 'exceptional' business careers out of college. They are going straight to PE, VC, HFs. It's like the major versus minor leagues. Occasionally, a minor league stud will get called up and be very impressive, but what they're doing is fucking table stakes in the majors.
Taking one quick look at your post history I can say with 100% confidence that you have 10x less social awareness than any of these “brain dead” target kids.
Also my BS meter here is flashing red.
You're implying that you know "Bezos types" personally? Wow, dude. Play daddy's ball for one of them at their multi-billion dollar firm; skip the whole consulting/banking loading phase. Certainly don't waste your time moaning about the plight of a non target (who you insist you aren't) on a WSO thread for a career path that you are in the position to leapfrog anyways.
You brought up a great topic originally: what are the conditions in which an elite consultancy will hire from a non-target? Can you put yourself in this position? Great use of the forum. THEN, you decided to get weird and aggressive, and hammer the keyboard... "There are Indian CEOs from buttfuck in India." What even is this sentence??
Please unplug from the metaverse, wash your face, and touch some grass.
Cope
Cope and false dichotomy, if you actually walk into a consulting firm or front office it’s obvious that target school kids generally are in shape and have more social polish, if anything
Consulting firms aren’t that elitist idk what this tard is on. And I can’t believe I clicked on this cesspool or a forum (thought it was commods). Tons of ppl from both state schools and ivies work there. I would say they are very DEI focused—considering some of the sorority girls and dudes ik in MBB. Dumb as bricks but can conform to corpo culture and fit the mold for the race/gender card…I will say there are some brilliant ppl there too but far less as per anywhere else. Nonetheless It’s a slightly above mediocre job w/ an above mediocre life outcome. Similar to IB or anything else corporate.
You realize the 'median' american salary is $59K per year, right? I understand the point you are trying to make (working at an MBB isn't like being on the damn manhattan project surrounded by the greatest minds of the age like some people make it out to be) but "slightly above mediocre" makes you sound pretty out of touch with reality
I see some flames in the other comment thread so let me give my two cents on this one.
The thing is, consulting values high GPA, leadership skills, some corporate experience or internship, and interest in strategy consulting proven through conferences and competitions.
Now, when you consider firms like MBB, or even OW and LEK in a downturn market where they're hiring so few candidates, they have the chance to be highly selective.
They may have soft cutoffs with GPA being 3.8, they may look at 2,000 candidates and apply that filter along with seeing what year they are and such. This ultimately leads to a highly selective pool from a very qualified pool of candidates.
I've been through the ringer in this field as any WSO member can attest. And I've heard recruiters from MBB literally tell me "yah, so first we're looking for 88% GPA or higher" or " even if you're referred, not having direct strategy consulting experience will probably result in not getting an interview" for new grad roles.
It's not as if either of those were hardest requirements, there was just that many applicants and so few positions for my country.
The benefits of networking are to understand the firm's ecosystem and culture answering questions like how or when do they look for lateral talent, what are their industry focuses and could you see yourself working there.
It ultimately comes down to applying to 20-50 shops or even expanding your list for industry Corp Strat and Corp dev roles that may have new grad position (Capital One, Master Card, others I'm guessing). Then, after 1-3 years, rerecruiting in the lateral market without an MBA.
No
Consulting firms need to hire X people per year, and it costs $Y per school to recruit from (direct fees to recruit on campus + labor costs). If you can get the quantity of high-enough-caliber talent you're looking for by only targeting a small number of schools, that's a lot easier than managing a ton of bespoke processes and pipelines. Sure, the top x% of kids from a top 100 state school might be as good an xx percentile kid at an Ivy, but sifting through the junk is going to be expensive and the payoff isn't necessarily there for the firm. Hopefully now you have a decent idea as to why target schools are a thing
There is a solution to this problem, which is doing a ton of networking and getting referrals. I did it, it wasn't easy and you'll need to get over any anxiety you might have about networking or cold intros, but if you can get a partner or director from a firm to refer you then your resume will be genuinely considered come hiring season
As an aside, despite MBB being more desirable & generally competitive firms to work at vs the T2s (ATK, EY-P, LEK, OW, and S&), non-target recruiting is actually trickier sometimes. Total annual classes are usually much smaller, and the MBBs recruit enough people annually to the point where non-target hires aren't all that rare. When I was recruiting there were T2s that I literally needed to get a partner referral to even apply for
That’s super interesting. Whats one way you think isn’t talked about very much when trying to get a director or partner referral. Do you really have to know THAT person - or is it more - talk to one person who knows the partner and kind of climb up that way
I wouldn't say there's a consistent answer on what it takes to get to the referral. Part of what you need to do during your research & networking is figure out what the bar looks like for a decent referral -- sometimes a junior level referral is enough (e.g. for one T2, I had built a good relationship with someone ~2-3 YOE who was very involved in recruiting and basically slotted me into the pipelines they have established for a different university)
If the person you're talking to seems to indicate their referral won't be enough, or that you should talk to other folks too, then the next step is to say something like "so it sounds like trying to chat with with somebody at the director or partner level would be really helpful here -- I'll try to find someone on LinkedIn unless there are any other paths you would recommend" -- if they like you + feel like doing it, at this point they'll probably offer a warm intro, and if they don't then there's no harm and you can keep moving on to trying other folks (on that note don't be offended when people don't offer)
I recruited from a semi target and did just fine. I know people from non targets as well. Yes, harder, but not impossible. You gotta grind
Incoming associate at MBB. White male. Go to a non target that is barely in the U.S. News Top 100. It is more than possible, stop whining and work towards it.
What was your process to getting there?
Began learning how to case freshman year (not necessarily for interview prep, but to learn about problem solving and also it was fun). Last summer between Junior and Senior year, cased every single day until it was second nature. Also, networked my ass off to give me my best shot at getting an interview. I knew that if I could land an interview, my preparation would pay off. It did.
More importantly though, just go be a well-rounded individual. Enjoyed college, and was involved in a ton of extracurriculars, for business and for fun. Not only does this make you an objectively better candidate, but half the battle is being a fun, likable person. All work and no play costs Jack an offer. I was able to let my genuine personality shine during interviews, because I believed in and enjoyed whatever I was talking about, and I wasn’t BSing something for a resume.
Good luck!
Saying you can't recruit for MBB from a non-target is just false. I did a summer at MBB and have met non-targets. They're definitely the minority, and I do agree it's probably harder as a non-target at MBB than in IB, but they do exist. You also need to take into account that MBB is just more competitive than most IB; you should really be comparing it to a few top BBs who are probably also more selective about school than most.
I'll also add that many people mentioned it was a recent trend to hire more non-targets (but I haven't been around long enough to know this personally) so the situation will likely get better in the next few years.
Sure youre right that its much harder to break in as a non target to mbb/t2 than it is ib but its not impossible.
it does require you to be absolutely cracked tho, i know very few non targets (and i mean real non targets like houston and not private schools with underrated networks like say a tcu/bucknell/gonzaga that can place you if you wanted) at mbb but theyre absolutely cracked.
im talking founding clubs, crazy leadership, relevant internships as freshman/soph, damn near perf gpa and extremely sociable but not cringe. Just well rounded candidates.
You rlly think Gonazaga places?? The other two make sense but Gonzaga??
Ive seen it. Ofc very regional and low numbers. But those that wanted to from there i have seen it. Not really a place where people go chasing finance/consulting
Biglaw is crazy elitist, so not sure what you mean by it being more open than MBB
Lol fr. big law is even crazier about prestige.. pretty sure something like 50% of the big law roles go to the top. 3/4 schools. Then the other 50% is split within the other 9/10 t14s (and your random non target hires)
We all wanted to be lawyers for like a month
Very true SB for you.
its changed so much, non target is included now. honestly might be better standing out at non target than being avg at like harvard lol.
Slimmer pickings for firms right now is one reason. Another is that when it comes to the raw skills the school may have less of an impact than previously thought. The true all-star target folks should stand out, but probably not enough justify any premiums in terms of pay. I’ve worked with enough Ivy guys to know that a big draw is their network. However, I’ve also met enough C-suite types that went to state or no-name liberal arts schools. Ultimately, the ivy guys I’ve worked with weren’t all stand outs in terms of talent, but they were great guys. Good sense of humor, great to talk to and generally very cultured. You can tell they’re sharp, however, I’ve never been in a seat where I was the on critiquing their work either.
Btw the intern class for my MBB office was something like 2/3 targets and 1/3 people from complete nontargets so…
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