Hey everyone,
I have asked this question before a few years ago, but wanted to ask again. Has anyone used Firmsconsulting services? Can someone vouch for the quality of the training program that they provide? I am wondering because they charge a very high $ for training for off-cycle recruiting, and I am wondering, what is a 1st hand experience?
Perhaps one of the firmsconsulting success stories can clear this up
Thank you
They charge $10k? They better guarantee me 3 offers and a promotion if it costs that much.
Most people pay significantly more for college, yet expect nothing of the sort.
Ha! $10k...It's true. Does anybody out there have any good (or bad) experiences with firmsconsulting?
Starting to regret this...
Can you elaborate?
I have used firmsconsulting back in 2014. My general observations:
PROS:
I can vouch for the quality of the content and coaching I experience. Michael is both knowledgeable and tough. I was a little nervous before each call. His goal is to make you feel so uncomfortable that case interviews will feel easy in comparison.
His approach to solving cases, estimation questions are pretty unique and effective.
He helps in your confidence building.
They claim that their program is extremely selective and that only X% are allowed to join. I actually had to do a practice behavioral interview, address feedback and then interview again before being officially admitted. Could all be a bit of BS but it did put me in the spot.
They claimed a very high rate of placement at MBB (>60%). Not sure what the number is today.
CONS:
Michael is VERY self-assured. He is right period; you need a good structured reasoning to argue. If you get around that it's not that bad.
He will go through cases with you all the way to the crux/insight of the case. Don't expect him to coach you on how to solve the numerical parts or more obvious components.
He won't hold your hand.
Firmsconsulting has a confusing program structure that keeps changing very quickly. Michael is an elusive figure and you can't find any background on him.
CAVEATS
No idea how it is today
I haven't interacted with or know anything about their new partner Kris
Is it worth $3K? Definitely yes, even if you end up not getting your top-3 consulting offer. Is the current program worth $10k? No idea.
He claims to have Kevin Coyne on his team, probably some truth in him being partner
Recommending Victor Cheng over FC is like recommending McDonalds over a 3-star michelin restaurant.
BS. I'm a principal (senior manager, couple years out from partner) at MBB and heavily involved in recruiting. Victor Cheng's stuff is gold for most of our hires. It's also a lot cheaper than FC. I don't know a single person we've hired from FC but almost everyone uses Victor Cheng's stuff.
McDonald's tends to be cheaper than Michelin restaurants, and I'm certain McDonald's has more customers as well. Obviously, neither of those points make McDonald's a higher quality option.
Also, how do you know what prep material your hires use? Sounds rather strange to me - how is it in their interest to share that with you? What I also find strange is that, for an MBB principal, you build arguments with rather weak logic.
As someone who just prepped and landed an MBB offer (with another potentially in tow), I can attest to aspiringchimp's statement. Almost everyone I prepped with used Victor Cheng's material to some capacity. I used it extensively - LOMS + McKinsey-style cases were fantastic. Even though he doesn't have the tenure/perspective of the Partners from FC, his methodology is sound, though a bit outdated with regard to frameworks.
Overall, I think you're riding the FC bandwagon a bit too hard, rivermonkey. That's not to say FC wasn't great material as well; I found some of their free articles on interviewing with partners to be very insightful. I just don't know whether I'd be willing to spend that much money when Victor's material is magnitudes cheaper (or free, for the resourceful).
Why wouldn't they share it with me? I ask all our new hires what the process was like and collect feedback - we are a feedback heavy culture and it's in my best interest to collect feedback that optimizes the recruiting process. That includes finding out prep materials to ensure high potential candidates are getting access to those types of materials.
Why would they share it with you? How is that in their interest?
The fact that more people use it and succeed does not prove it is better, it proves that more people use it and succeed. Success rates, not popularity, prove effectiveness. McDonalds has higher volume sales than any Michelin restaurant. Does that mean McDonald's provides higher quality than a Michelin restaurant? Your answer would be 'yes', which is why I consider your reasoning skills weak.
Also, Im guessing you must be the one throwing all the monkey shits. Quite petty.
This is hilarious... I take it you don't work at a consulting firm. As I mentioned, we're a feedback heavy culture and it's ingrained within everyone to speak up about things to improve processes. If I get better feedback about preparation processes, I can then pass these processes on to high potential candidates and get better talent for the firm as a result. We work as a team, so anyone who joins the firm is invested in ensuring we get better talent. Contrary to popular belief on this forum, it's actually quite difficult finding talented people, and talented people usually do not have problems getting job offers from multiple firms.
Given the high number of people who have received offers using VC's material; and the (albeit anecdotal) observation that I've seen nobody receive offers from firmconsulting's material, I'd say your McDonald's-Michelin restaurant analogy that you like to use is quite flawed.
And no, I wasn't throwing monkey shits before, but I might start now.
The whole problem with this is that the added value is VERY questionable, and he seems like a prick. If you only take in a very select group of extremely motivated people (why the hell would anyone in their right mind pay 10k otherwise?) the chances are that they would've landed an offer anyway. Easy to be a good coach if you're playing with an all-star team to begin with.
He also coached people, without college degrees, from third word countries, all the way to McKinsey. I thought that was pretty amazing.
https://www.firmsconsulting.com/quarterly/from-unemployed-to-the-big3/
@nyclifer1234. If you have any direct experience you can share, it would be helpful. I'd like to get some of my $10k+ back as would a number of other people
Spot on
I signed up for TCO for a month as well. I agree with the posts above. While the material on FC is good and very valuable, paying exorbitant amounts of money for their training program seems like an overkill.
@Carmbar is right on the money. If you pick the top 10% of applicants and train them for 6 months, chances are they'll get one of the MBB jobs. This means the placement numbers they repeatedly prophesy should be taken with a grain of salt.
I also find Michael very arrogant. The claim that all the training staff are former partners is preposterous. I doubt that Michael himself has ever been a partner at McKinsey. I also agree that some of his answers to the cases are too vague. From a structuring standpoint his approach is decent, but you're on your own after that.
That said the material done with Kevin Coyne is a gold mine. I would sign up for a month just to go over that material.
Michael was a Principal at BCG, I believe. And a partner at Rolland Berger. The excruciating level of detail and insight that is provided in his book "Succeeding as a Management Consultant" cannot be made up. Whether he was a partner or not, he has a solid perspective. Having said that, I agree that he can come across as arrogant (If you want a 'feel good' training program, this is not for you).
Re: Victor Cheng: He spent a little over 1 year at McK many years ago. He did get several offers at the time, but you can't claim that he understands management consulting. A good chunk of his newsletter content consists of out of whack' philosophy pieces.
Value for money and arrogance aside, I find that Michael and firmsconsulting provide more substance.
I disagree that 'arrogance needs to be earned'. Nobody should be arrogant, no matter how great they are. At the same time, I was certainly not trying to condone his style. My comment was simply indicating that he is not the right coach for people who are put off by arrogance. That's all.
"What is he trying to hide?". I do not know or care. His coaching was solid and helpful to me, which is different than saying that this is true for everybody.
Regarding Victor Cheng. Agree to disagree.
I have not heard many MBB hires talk like Michael, but I have heard quite a few partners talk like him.
I have a feeling you spent money on Firmsconsulting and are trying to justify it to yourself.
Let me help: it was a waste of money.
.
I've been listening to the Firmsconsulting Case Interview podcasts (hosted by Michael) and he's said many times in numerous podcasts that he was a senior partner and he quit the day he got promoted to director. I think the firm he eluded to (in one of his podcasts) was that he was at BCG.
I am working in one of the top tier consulting firms and I've been listening on Michael's various programs for quite some time now. The level of industry insights and quality of training material is unmatched by anything you can find anywhere. Highly recommended.
Buyer beware. Paid over $10k for Michael's service
TLDR version - If you pay anything to firmsconsulting, pay for video series. Do TCO 1 Felix perfect answer and TCO 2 aside from last two episodes. Take it with a grain of salt because a lot of what he says is incorrect or outdated. Michael is too arrogant to care or correct this - Michael's $10k program will not add to your training. It will detract - Michael will withdraw support in the middle of the program and "suggest" that you pay for an additional video series - Have spoken with five clients. None have MBB offers, and none had training anything like his video series. Michael pretends to be your mentor but he won't even answer emails. He uses the 15 hours of time to go on random rants, talk about irrelevant philosophy, and suggests convoluted networking strategies that backfire badly. He promises follow-up but does not deliver and attributes it to office moves, a two month break in December and January, a video series he's shooting - All five clients I spoke with commented that Michael's behavior and suggestions were counterproductive with many getting feedback from MBB firms that things that Michael suggested worked against them in the interviews - Michael's focus on ethics and his statement that he does not care about money are a ruse to hide the fact that he only cares about money and there is nothing ethical about his behavior. What you see in the videos is not what you get - Even Michael's video series has poor results, and in the $10k training he will usually cut his sessions short so you are actually getting less than 15 hours -- Felix Season 1 aka Peng Zhong works for Bayer now -- Alice Qinhua Zhou Season 2 "was managed out of McK for being too transactional" according to Michael -- Michael Klein Season 2 never was hired - Never buy a product from somebody who uses a fake name. Michael Boricki is a fake name
To be clear, are you saying the apparent ">80% placement rate for McKinsey & BCG" isn't true? How'd you find out all of this?
I spoke with 5 people on the firmsconsulting website who had miserable experiences and not one who had a positive experience in the program. I did not seek out people who had a miserable experience. Also when I see that the people he actually cared to be involved with - the people who were going to be featured in his videos - got no or poor offers, I definitely question this statistic
>- Never buy a product from somebody who uses a fake name. Michael Boricki is a fake name
Should we listen to a post from someone that uses a fake name, brg653?
Josef nice of you to have only two posts, defending Boricki. Very credible source. Are you part of his marketing team?
In any case, brg653 is not chagring you $10,000 for the post.
Update: I bought the service from Micheal for $10K, and I have the same experience as brg653, a BIG waste of money. I deeply regret hiring him, because that money is a lot. I got sold on his sales pitch, probably because is delivered in a British accent.
I haven't talked to any of his clients, so my experience is stand-alone. He doesn't respond to emails on time.
The first stage is fixing your resume, and I can tell you the version he developed is pretty bad. It took 3 hours out of the 12 hours you have total of his time to help fix my resume, and the feedback he gave me was very vague each time. Each time he would arrogantly drill on my resume bullet points, but without any concrete suggestions. All he would say is that those points "are not good enough" and "don't get the point across". It was painful, but not in a constructive way. In the end, I confronted on his useless feedback, and he finally gave me concrete feedback. That session took 20 minutes to change my resume. He could have done that all along w/o wasting any time. Yet, the outcome he produced was not of significant better quality.
The second stage is the training / networking, in which he wasted a few hours just talking about things that have no relevance to the topic. For example, he espouses bullshit theories that have no backing, and often reverts on his stance from call to call.
My problem is that he provides no structure. He is just sitting back and answering questions. For $10K, I expect concrete materials and not just conversations. I will say, his points are some times valid. His sales pitch is vague, and so his delivery is not against any promise he made. But there is nothing new, or unique to justify that coaching price. He hasn't added any value to my recruiting process whatsoever.
I haven't used his other materials, and it may be useful. I would refrain from buying his coaching service. I also agree that this whole "ethics over money" thing just seems like a shallow act.
I'm another victim of Firms Consulting and I totally agree with every pointyou made it matches my experience EXACTLY, it is as if you're describing what happened with me!!
For everyone else, don't be a victim, stay far away from this company, you'll get more out of your 10k burning it in a bon fire.
Sad to hear you've been through the same experience @consultantbhai
Most of the "clients" I've spoken with have been international and the thought of trying to get their money back is daunting. I don't have issues pursuing that, and will file complaints next year. If anybody would like to join, please DM. Would welcome any thoughts from WSO people on how best to get our money back
FYI - Michael is not British. He is from South Africa or a neighboring country. Michael is otherwise an unknown entity. That will change soon
Michael has actually raised his fees to $12k-$100k. The pipeline of naive people is neverending apparently. https://www.firmsconsulting.com/quarterly/feesandrates/
Wondering about you and consultantbhai following up with suing FC/Michael Boricki? How did it work?
Sorry for necrothreading, really curious how did the situation develop. Also, if anyone decoded mysterious person hiding behind the Boricki moniker.
I joined a program for consultants, back when it costed 6k instead of 12k.
Have mixed bag of experience (all pros and cons were described above quite well).
However his coaching was quite effective, as measured by being on a promotion fast track and being seen as one of few among peers to be able to communicate effectively with senior partners as well as clients. Many partners communicate like Michael, including being vague in their comments and expecting that you will "get this".
If not, well, maybe you are not suited for this career.
On a slightly related note, I use the FC Insider content daily in my engagements. TCO I and II are very useful as well, to refresh some ideas or sharpen your industry knowledge.
(Found this thread when searching for Michael Boricki online)
I suscribe to their premium program (TCO + Executive program), and have been a client for almost 2 years now. I haven't received any one-to-one coaching from anyone at firmsconsulting. Like PanzerDancer, I use the content on a daily basis.
The negative reviews posted here surprised me, mostly by how negative they are.
I regularly find pearls of wisdom in the podcasts, which sometimes benefit my clients. More often, I'm reminded of experiences from work, and the program helps me think these experiences through. I also use the material to test how I explain concepts and train teams. Although just starting, the Matassoni and Coyne programs are pure "strategy wisdom".
The content might be light on the technical side, it's often targetting junior applicants (obviously), other than that I've found those programs to be great resources. And while I'm not shocked by Michael's tone or his supposed arrogance, it probably would be grating over the phone or in a long skype call.
tldr: the content helped me shape the strategy of half my clients in the past 2 years. They have seen significant improvements, and my "star" is clearly rising. For $150/month, that's all right.
Interesting to see new posters coming out of the woodwork for Firmsconsulting. Firmsconsulting is as close to a scam organization as it gets. Michael promises the world and delivers not just nothing in the $12k consulting program but actually bad advice that will limit your prospects with an MBB firm.
Michael is a conman with no face or personal online presence. He will have an introductory call with you where he will make you feel bad about your abilities and use that to his advantage to sucker you into his package. He will mollycoddle you for the first few days while you decide to spend your money and then withdraw almost all support soon after
Perhaps Michael has lost his way with time, and once delivered the value that he promises. That is not the case now. Videos and I've watched hundreds approaching a thousand of them are sometimes useful, but get repetitive and useless very quickly (i.e. self help book tropes, Michael preaching for sometimes 10-15 minutes continuously about what annoys him about the world). $12k consulting program is pure drivel and was worse than useless. I had to get retrained on case methods to get the MBB job I have now.
Everybody I know who followed Michael's methods has failed even most of the people he features in his videos. Do not be a sucker for Firmsconsulting. You will regret it. Very unethical organization despite preaching high ethics. There are many alternatives out there and even if they fail at least you will not have lost as much money
We have a mixed bag here: you put TCO, candidate coaching and consultant coaching together. The discussion should be only about the second of them.
Based on anonymity of the guy, FCs high prices and the fact you did not like his style you conclude about whole Firmsconsulting: - it was not helpful (hard to assess as you ended up in MBB anyway) - you should get your money back even though FC contracts states there are no refunds. - it is a scam and fraud.
That’s pretty flawed reasoning, man.
I understand your disappointment with the whole service, but it does not mean all FC services and/or company are useless/overpriced/fraud.
Also Bill Matassoni aside from the free podcast interview speaks for literally 13 minutes across the entire website to date, and its self help book style commentary and pretty basic strategy that can be distilled into the following, "define the market you operate in, don't let the market define you".
Further, neither Bill Matassoni nor Kevin Coyne claim any affiliation with firmsconsulting. Just as you or I can go out and spend money to hire retired consultants, Michael "fake name" Boricki has strategically done the same. Don't let Michael hiring a few ex-consultants paid by the hour fool you
I think it can be summarized from above, but $10k seems exorbitant for the services that are provided. It seems that there's a lot more criticism than praise about firmsconsulting out there. Personally, I like the videos and other free stuff out there, but there's really so much learning material out there for practicing stuff $10k seems like overkill. There are plenty of other cheaper options that will give you decent materials to practice with in my opinion.
I am also curious to know more about this elusive Michael Boricki character. The free stuff FC posts online is good and has been helpful in shifting my thinking about career management, but I find his approach to case interviews annoying and arrogant. For one, he makes uncompromising statements in unnecessary consulting double-speak (e.g. never use "frameworks", only use "decision trees") intended to woo anxious MBB hopefuls by making the interview process seem near-impossible to crack. Unless, of course, you pay for one of his expensive services. He often talks about how his firm has cases that no client has ever solved, which is preposterous but a smart way to market his services - introducing the idea that candidates are doing some or everything wrong. This is how a lot of management consultants sell their services, which at least confirms something about his otherwise unknown past.
Why doesn't "Michael Boricki" put a real name or face to his company? What does he have to lose? Other extremely successful consultants, Matassoni and Coyne, are willing to associate with the company, but not the man actually running the operation. It surely cannot be because it would hurt Boricki's reputation to run such a business, otherwise the aforementioned would be affected, too. Does the Boricki's moniker allow him to lie or exaggerate past accomplishments? Frankly, if the impetus behind the business is to produce fantastic, ethical consultants, one would hope for the truth or at least some transparency about the founder.
I can't but agree more with the whole "why hide your name" comment. I have gone through some of his stuff online, it seems decent and could give you some insights. However, I don't like his lack of transparency nor do I like the prices he charges without producing tangible results.
I did 1:1 training with Michael, paying $5k for the service. To get maximum value, I also paid for, and studied, his videos at the same time.
Highlights:
Overall, I would say the experience was highly valuable (spending $5k made me dedicate to it), but this was driven by the effort I put in (over 150 hrs) using free materials - 1:1 time with Michael didn't exceed 7hrs, max.
For people considering buying 1:1 coaching with Michael, I would suggest using other services that connect junior MBB resources with candidates at per hour rates (usually ~$100), and doing more cases e2e. You can augment this with Michael's high quality materials - the free stuff is mostly fine, but a month of S1/2 will really help.
Cheers!
Hi folks
I have been a long-time fan of FIRMSconsulting and have had a fantastic experience learning and interacting with them.
Mastering their courses and content requires a lot of discipline and it will never hurt you. They have podcasts, videos, apps and also Insider programs, almost identical to a Netflix type model for consulting and industry professionals.
Let me know if you need any additional inputs. More than happy to share to share how I have been able to implement the learnings in my professional and personal life.
Ash
Is this a promotional account? You've brought up some old threads just to say good things about FirmsConsulting.
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