Q&A - 1Y at Bain

Thanks for the incredibly detailed answers and debrief! 

I do agree with the sentiment from Bain as well. I've spoken to pretty much every consulting firm in N.A. and in all my chats, EY-P, LEK and Bain have stood out the most in terms of conversations and connections. As for the consulting toolkit, I'd love to understand the 100 foot view of things like Market Modelling. Are you gathering sub-setor information from a macro view? Are you building guidnace models similar to the complex ones seen in IB? From a technical standpoint and granular detail view, how in-depth does the analysis go and how does it feed into the recommendation? 

For the above barrage of questions, I've seen my fair share of things in technology consulting and my conversations with pure-play shops like O.W. and such, but rarely hear answers as built out as yours. 

Would love to be insightul there, but unfortunately I'm not US based. Most of what I'll know on this topic will likely be from this forum and others like it.

For what it's worth, in Europe, because MBBs (certainly us) have grown so fast in recent years, we've had to hire from a lot more diverse backgrounds (inc. mine). As a broad generalisation, from my second-hand understanding and going by what I've seen, if you're an MBA hire it looks like the MBA is the degree that matters.

There is a high degree of correlation of course: if you're at a top MBA programme, you probably did well in your undergrad (regardless of whether or not it was a well-known college) and you have solid work experience. So, in principle if you can case & interview, it shouldn't be impossible to transition (esp. if you can land an SA position, then you should be fine).

Anecdotally, I know of only 2 people at my office who did IB before. There are probably more, but it's not a super common transition in the UK at least (guessing the comp drop might affet it).

I haven't the faintest idea, genuinely.

My knowledge of Hedge Funds is a basic understanding of what they do + 2-3 movies. Never met anyone from one or spoke to anyone about one.

What little I understand is that you have to have a good nose for investments (that's good), but I don't know how good the avg structured problem solving skill is coming from a MM HF. I see people every day with backgrounds in Classics, Law, Public sector work, etc. But really rarely see finance people at all (as I mentioned above).

Journey

• Thank Grodd, a question I can actually answer :D
• I worked a little bit before choosing to pursue a more academic path. I was seeking more of a challenge, intellectually. Afterward, academia / research didn’t seem to be for me, so had to move my butt back over to the private sector
• FS in this case was financial data & non-investment FS (eg ratings, advisory). They had a small econ consulting arm (tiny % of revenue), so the name was recognisable, but not so much the group I came from (lovely team though, and would not have hated staying, I just got a little bored)
• The rest of my experiences were mostly random (objectively). Took the jobs I found, basically. Let’s just say that 10-15 years ago, resources for CV / Cover Letters / Recruiting were not nearly as widespread as now if you didn’t come from a well-known university. And I was not aware of WSO, nor was anyone I knew.

PE

• I did consider it initially, for a little while. And definitely a few things that are cool about it: (1) the money is a big draw, obviously, but also (2) ownership of the assets / process, and (3) real applied strategy as you need to move every lever to generate returns within your Portfolio Companies in limited time
• However, I am genuinely not keen on the hours (if I worked 70-80h/week, I’d want to do something I felt more passionate about) and while I can do financial modelling, I just don’t enjoy it at all. Basically, every time I looked at PE, it felt like I was trying to convince myself to do it, rather than being actually drawn to it
• A few of my colleagues have indeed jumped to PE. In the last 5-6 months, I can point to at least 4 that I know of. All joined anything from LMM to MF as Associates or Senior Associates. Usually they were SACs / Cs when leaving here. Definitely much more finance / investment-oriented folks. Had long stints in our PE group here, and were all very high performers.
• I also know a few people who are generally considering a potential exit to PE later. So, definitely not uncommon.

Getting Started

• When starting out in DDs, it's common to feel unsure about what it entails, but that shouldn't deter you from achieving top ratings. We have developed a proven playbook for DDs, which is why we are leaders in the sector. The best advice I can give is to listen to your Supervisor and Senior Manager
• Even with no prior experience, whether you've been at Bain for two years or are an MBA hire, you will initially be assigned admin-y tasks, particularly related to expert interviews. While these  may not seemsuper value-add, they can have significant consequences if not done properly. It's not difficult but can be time-consuming

Progressing in DD

• As you gain experience, say by Case #2, you can start contributing to research, interviews, and analysis. The extent of your involvement will depend on your previous experience (eg whether you had 1 internship or 3YOE pre-Bain). It's better to rotate among different workstreams during your stay in PEG to gain maximum exposure. Ideally, you should aim to be involved in each workstream 1-2 times, depending on how long it takes you to become proficient. For example, if you have a background in investment banking, you may only need one case with market modeling to show you can do it to our standards

Using Prior Cases

• Prior cases depends on the target company. Sometimes, the target is a direct competitor of a previous target we diligenced. However, each company has unique characteristics, e.g., different sub-segments or geos. Often, we evaluate entirely new assets in industries that no one is familiar with outside of the Partners. While we may have done something similar in the past, it can be more time-consuming to adapt previous work rather than starting from scratch

Playbook

• Nevertheless, we follow a general playbook for DDs, which can be customised as needed. This approach is pretty great as you can become very good quickly through just doing more reps. It ensures that even if you have no prior knowledge of a particular industry, you always know what you're doing. If you enjoy it, you can become highly skilled in a short amount of time. While the hours may be demanding compared to our general practice (where we do all other projects), they are more predictable. PEG involves high intensity, there are no dull moments, and time wasted on things not contributing to the answer is the worst thing you can do. However, your team is always there to help & support you

High Stakes

• In DD, the stakes are high, as each assessment directly contributes to a specific decision: to buy or not? Sometimes, a deal may appear financially attractive on paper, but as we dig into the commercial aspects, we might discover a less positive outlook or realise that the business or sector lacks differentiation or is in a declining sub-segment

Happy to help if I can!

• RSM: don't know anyone from there in London. A lot of recruiting is regional to be fair, but I'm sure recruiters know it's a good university. If you apply and say you want to work in London, I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be given proper consideration
• Background: in London we hire even recent undergraduates, so someone with a master would absolutely be fine (you'd still come in as an AC though, if you have <2YOE). Most commong master might be an MS in Economics / Business (ignoring MBAs). But frankly, we literally have everything (doctors, chemists, veterans, politcial science grads, classics students, CS majors, etc.). The bottom line for assessing whether to give you a shot is very simple: Have you excelled at what you did? And are you someone who does more than just show up and do the work? If you can demonstrate these two things, you're doing a lot more than most people already

I have a response here for comps in London (a little further down that sub-thread): link.

I know our comps, and other MBBs I have some decent second-hand info (between Fishbowl and here, over time). T2s I unfortunately do not know at all. Especially since some places like S& / EYP have different comp profiles from the rest of their B4 parent I believe. 

Well done on the ACI offer! I know a couple of people in the Zurich office, good peeps.

1. Conversion wil be a function of your performance during your ACI (the very obvious part), how you are perceived during the ACI (a tad obvious too), and the general business needs of the Zurich office. You can definitely influence 2 of those, so that's a good starting point. To maximise your chances, you'll want to:
   • Do your best during the work portion- as an ACI, you'll really be an investment for the team (and objectively a bit of a net negative, just how things are), but that's totally fine! This is the baseline expectation, so literally anything you do that is done well & quickly will be a bonus. Expectations being low means exceeding will be easier. Here is a list of tips for newer junior analysts/consultants I wrote the other day, most should apply: link here
   • Be the role model you wish you had- that sounds a bit abstract, but I'll explain. A few behaviours you'll want to exhibit (assuming this is who you are and it doesn't involve you really going against your own values) are: (A) Going above and beyond (you should never have nothing to do, if that's the case, ask the team how else you can help) + (B) Being friendly and have a positive attitude (if someone asks you to do something, you don't want to project that youd don't want to do it or would rather do something else // also don't want to be rude). That's it, really. You can volunteer to organise a case team event or a bit of case fun (especially if you have some good ideas), to take notes during a meeting / interview (in fact you should almost alwasy volunteer for that), etc. What does the best person you can imagine yourself working with look like (in terms of attitude / behaviour)? And do that. Be who you'd want to work with
2. Staffing is a delicate question, because it so depends on you. PEG is harder for a new hire, and I would discourage new grads from going there straight out of uni (or as interns) unless they have experience in other high-paced fields (e.g., IB). GP has a lot more variance, where you could have a super chill case for 10 weeks or a nightmare of a case for 10 weeks (really no way to control that). On the plus side, really bad cases (in terms of hours) are not the norm in GP. There is also no brownie points for doing well in PEG vs GP. If you think GP will be more conducive to your conversion, head that way
3. Networking is less important outside of your team from a "utilitarian" perspective. But again, it's a matter of personality. I would take advantage of the time at Bain to talk to as many people as possible, get to know them, ask questions, see what they liked about the firm (or disliked), and just get to know your colleagues in general. If you get a return offer, bunch of them will be your team mates later. It kind of circles back to my point about acting like your own role model: you should try to meet people in the office (now, no need to be super transactional and "networky"; just get to know the people, most are barely 2-5 years older than you). As for partners / alumni, I don't think it would have any sway. I would do that only if you had a real reason for asking them for a 15mins chat (e.g., you really really wanna work in our FS practice and your case isn't in that, and so you want to chat about it)
4. Miscellaneous advice would be to just enjoy the ride, try it out, see if you like consulting at all, if you enjoy the peolpe you work with. Doesn't mean everyone has to be your friend, but do you at least get along with them and work well together? One thing that could help you stand out a tiny bit, potentially, is to be proactive with what you'd like to learn during your time there.
   • Once you're on a case, you can chat to your supervisor about what things you hope to get to work on / learn (e.g., some excel analysis, some customer analysis, public speaking/presenting, or any other skill you'd like to work on). They may not be able to accommodate it, but knowing it will help them know a bit better what to give you if at some point several options are available. Also shows you're being proactive about your personal development (and we love that)
     • remember, you can't get what you want if you don't ask for it
   • Also, ask other people on your team, besides your supervisor & SM if they have any tips for you, however small, or things they wish they'd known. Usually everyone has at least 1-2 on their mind

Overall, try to enjoy it. It's early in your career, so you have plenty of time to change your mind. You might be a partner in 15 years, or you might have chosen a different path upon graduation.

And welcome aboard!

Hmm, so far? Definitely 4 in the last 6 months (that was maybe.... 40-50% of exits)

All of them to investment roles (Associate / Senior Associates). No one going to internal consulting/strat/ops teams yet

• I don't find it that taxing, no. At first, it was a bit of a shock to the system to actually work 100% of the time you spend at work (was used to folding a 40h job in 20h or having down time throughout the day). But once you get used to that, it's totally fine. What I do need at the end of the day is a couple of hours to myself, regardless of how late I finish, to be able to wind down though. Because while not taxing, you do get caught into the fast pace. So, it's like winding down after exercising.
  • Also my definition of mentally taxing is perhaps different, given my academic background
• WLB is pretty good in London, and your sources are correct. We pick an early night in the week + early Fri + weekends free. And everybody works hard towards that and towards respecting it. Of course, we also try to be considerate, so I wouldn't put an early night the day before a big SteerCo. Not sure if the others do the same.
• There have been start dates pushed back for the 2023 intakes, so only minimal uptake so far this year. Although our MBA SA class seems the same size as usual (but this is only ~10 weeks). We are having a bit of a reversal to the mean in terms of performance assessment (Covid years were a bit kinder than normal). So, some people are having to raise their game a little, but so far nothing dramatic that I've heard. We're managing costs, but we're doing our best to protect the people (and so far, given what I've seen, it's definitely true in London). But the bench has objectively been a little crowded lately.

No problem! That's why I'm here :)

1. Masters. Yes, Oxbridge does dominate very much, objectively, but we have tons of people with degrees from various non-Oxbridge non-London universities (inc. me) all the way up to Partner. Basically, Oxbridge makes your life easier, but still guarantees nothing and not going there won't be a penalty if your CV is otherwise exemplary/noteworthy. Remember, the CV is just to help you get the interview (along the online test). Then the offers will be based entirely on your interview performance, which are CV blind.
2. Public sector. Sore subject for us in the UK. We were banned from public sector work for a few months last year by Rees-Mogg (it's an easy google), but we were reinstated in March (long story short, there was a scandal in South Africa back in 2018, where local partners messed up big big time. Since then, those people just flat out disappeared, no one knows where they are -- at least I don't have a clue). Point is, we have some government / public sector work, but it's not a big strength of ours. Objectively, I think B4 has the lion's share of those contracts.
3. Location. We're mostly UK-based for our projects, I'd say 90-95% of the time. There are some teams or some people occasionally working on international projects (I'm on one right now), but that's not very frequent. Although, because it's London and we're a huge office, at any given time, there usually are a few of those around.

XD thanks! I feel like we could've used used some of this info beforehand. I would have picked Bain all the same, but would have been nice to know :) I'm definitely the kind of person who needs to know everything he can before doing anything.

1. Hard/Soft skills: the usual suspects around Excel / PowerPoint, financial modelling, building excel models, building compelling slides, presenting, communicating, synthesising large amounts of data, etc. But to be fair, if you already have your offer, just enjoy your time now and relax. You did the hard part, now relax. You'll learn everything you need on the job and through on-the-job training
2. Language skills: I don't know what the language requirements are in your office, if it wasn't a super high criterion there, it might not be critical. But in general, just for yourself and in case you want to have the optionality of transfering to other offices comfortably, I'd recommend ensuring you are 100% comfortable working / communicating / interviewing experts in English. But again, it may be a secondary priority for your particular office if most business is done in your local language
3. Pre-joining experiences: Anything you fancy like doing that you can afford! But enjoy the free time mostly :D
4. First year: it was fun, felt like 3 years, but in a good way (densely packed and with people I like), frankly wouldnt change anything about that last year, professionally speaking. Here is a list of tips I wrote recently (some more tactical, some more general): link.

Hi there,

The type of degree will be less important than the quality (i.e., did you get top marks?). However, if you have an NYU Stern MBA, you're in a pretty good position already. A former Bainie, and a mentor of mine, is a Stern MBA graduate.

Be mindfful of: your application (high grades + solid work exp. + good MBA + extra curriculars) and of where you apply (NY/SF/CHI/BOS/LON are super popular, and thus a little more competitive than average).

Bain, like I said I really enjoy working here :) but to caveat my opinion, I obviously never worked at the other two and only know a couple of people at both firms.

We don't do ACIs here in London, so I didn't realise you weren't allocated a mentor, even a temporary one, for the duration of your internship.

If one is not suggested, a general good port of call is to find someone, say a Consultant (maybe even an SAC), you get along with, but who doesn't supervise you directly, that you could speak to every couple of weeks or so, for general advice and check-up. I meet with my mentor every 3 weeks, give or take a few days.

For general guidance, talk to your SM on your case, at least once at the start, and keep regular PD chats with your direct supervisor. They'll be able to help you navigate the summer. Maybe share the areas you are confident you can add value in, and those you would like to work on more and learn.

Congratulations & welcome!

The honest answer is for you to just enjoy your time until you start. But if you are the kind of person who needs to do something, you can always

• take some simple ppt / excel courses online (for basic financial modelling + learning shortcuts)
• continue building your business acumen by reading the FT / WSJ / BusinessWeek or listening to consulting / business podcasts (each MBB has a few of those)
• review your class notes about marketing / finance / organisational behaviour / strategy / management from university, if you took a business major, or take some free online courses on Coursera, if you haven't

But honestly, I would only recommend you enjoy your summer. There is a time and a place for everything, and the time to learn about the job will be on the job :) Now, in terms of general working tips, I'd refer you to this thread: link. I have a list I wrote a few weeks back, and others contributed some excellent advice too (and objectively these are in some ways more important to know beforehand, I think).

Again, congratulations! And enjoy life in the meantime :)

• I just got off of a 14h day, so yeah, the hours can be quite long. I think it will depend on (a) your end goal with consulting / your career and (b) what you can comfortably handle:
  • if you want to get a bit of career accelerator and can handle 55-65h weeks regularly (but not forever), then you could try your chance and get out after 2-3 years
  • but if working more than 45h a week on a consistent basis is something that causes you a lot of stress / fatigue, then I absolutely do not recommend trying it (just not worth it)
• I'd say so far it's been mostly soft skills / process related (I already knew most of the "harder" skills). I've mostly learned to:
  • do high-quality work faster (I could always do my job well, but never had to do it fast too) 
  • quickly prioritise and focus efforts on answer-changing areas (rather than be purely sequential in my work or check everything to the n-th degree)
  • manage upward more effectively to get the most out of my supervisors and be most efficient (instead of being passive/reactive)
    • Think this is most transferable to really any work setting if I'm honest- the soft skills you learn + quality of your execution shoot up dramatically, so it will enhance those tremendously. Harder skills aren't really a thing (to me anyways), but with this job you can learn to be "better" at everything you were good at before (assuming your other hard skills don't deteriorate too much while you're here)
• I woulnd't mind staying if it were an option, but I would prefer to eventually exit to the gaming industry, so I'm currently working towards that goal
• DEI can probably be a factor indeed, but frankly we've grown so much in the last 5 years, that we've recruited more from every demographic. There has been an effort to increase certain under-represented groups, so these have grown faster than the over-represented ones, yes. But on the whole, all groups have seen higher numbers in recruiting than in the past (given our growth figures, if this hadn't been the case then the most over-represented group would have become a minority by now, which is very far from being the case)

Thanks! I guess my tendency for extended lengthy responses finds a use at last!

Private life can absolutely be a concern in this line of work, just like in other high-paced jobs. I average 55h as an AC, but I have friends who are Consultants and Managers, and their hours usually are around 5-10h more a week (and in nightmare DDs can go to >75h, exc. week-ends).

Typically, of those maintaining relationships, I see mostly two types:

1. Couples who have been together for a long time. I then assume that (a) the relationship has a more solid foundation and (b) their partner knows they were with someone who would go on to have that kind of career (even if it's only for a few years)
2. People who found partners in equally (if not more) demanding jobs: IB, PE, other consultants, etc. Then it's pretty easy for them to understand that you staying in the office until 11pm is because you actually have work to do and not because of other reasons.

Now, there is a 3rd category, but it usually falls within type 1 above, which concerns more senior folks (Senior Managers / Associate Partners / Partners), who may have kids as well as a husband / wife / life-long partner. Those tend to prioritise their personal life when they can, and when it has the most impact, e.g., 6-8pm to spend time with their kids / partner and not think of work. That can totally work, but you do need to make it there first. and odds are that you'll probably work between 9-11pm to review work / talk to clients / etc.

For me, it works out pretty well, I'm usually too busy during the week to do anything else, but at the weekend I travel a lot, see friends, etc. Luckily for me during the week, I like the people I work with, so it does make the 50-60h easier (although bad case experiences and occasionally bad supervisors do happen, like anywhere).

It's up to you, if you really value having your own time every day from 5-6pm to see friends / family / SOs or engage in your hobbies / passions / etc. or even just rest, then frankly consulting would be a no-go. But hey, I know people who are getting engaged, married, having kids, or taking care of their family, all while being very good at their job here, so anything's possible.

1. I'm actually unsure about the application process for new grads, as I applied as an experienced hire (EH). For EH it's a rolling application, but for new grads it may not make a difference, since there is an understanding that most people don't graduate before a certain date, so you'll get the bulk of candidates applying at the same time. This could be worth checking with the recruitment team, their email should be on our careers website
2. Cover letter shouldn't be informal, definitely. Punchy means that you have to make your point clear and directly (rather than circling around it). The classic "show, don't tell". Don't tell me you're good at managing projects or dealing with tight deadlines, give me the exact examples you're thinking of and present them in a way that clearly supports your point. Also, have a narrative flowing throughout so that as the reader goes through it, you applying makes sense to them. For that, think of what you want them to take away from the letter: that you're smart, are good at and have a structured approach to solving problems, and that you are a proactive person who goes above and beyond when others just barely do what they're asked. These are your key points to get across. You will then want to conclude the letter wit ha brief paragraph of why Bain makes sense to you. You need to make sure that your letter could not equally apply to someone else (which happens when people write general statements without clear examples).
3. They don't really do much in the UK.

Best of luck!