learning how to dress

just got into banking at a BB and i'm what many of you call the Nouveau riche but i would not like to stand out one in terms the way i dress. i went to public school all my life and lack what the pedigreed private schooled individuals know about fashion.

greatly appreciate any words of wisdom with regards to a man's wardrobe. i guess the most popular brand of clothing is thomas pink.. and other suggestions? also, i will be buying some tailor-made suits and shirts.. what kind of material would be best (100% wool for suits, etc)? also, how many white shirts would i need in my closet (given most bankers wear white shirts daily i guess)? thanks for helping out a kid from the gutter.

oh, any advice on ties would be great too.. (type of knots, design, anything else to know about ties??)

thanks

 
Best Response

I didn't always wear white shirts. Generally wore white based shirts (i.e., white with a stripe or some sort of pattern).

Check out www.ctshirts.com which is a great London based shirt maker. Most analysts don't wear thomas pink as far as I knew. CT are good quality and can be had during sales for less. Were very popular with analysts who didn't like brooks bro.

I like the higher thread count and sea island quality shirts. If you want to spend Pink prices, go to Barney's and get custom fit Hamilton shirts. Much better. Always go cutaway collar and for the cuff you can go either french or barrel. I went through a french cuff phase, but now i really like a slightly larger barrel cuff (deeper from the edge of the sleeve) with a notch corner cut out (not rounded).

Never get a pocket if possible either. I can't stand them.

For suits - custom is ideal, but for off the rack you can buy Burberry or Hickey Freeman. 100% wool absolutely.

Shoes - I like Ferragamo and Gucci loafers myself. $400-500 is MORE than enough to spend. You're an idiot to spend more.

Ties - Hermes or Ferragamo. Vinyard vines are not bad for analysts. I don't like them as much, and figure if you're spending the money get the best, but they're not bad at all.

 

I'm constantly destroying ties since they are stuck in a knot for so long and I tend to just rip them off when I get home, so I can't justify spending 150+ for the really nice silk ones. Was never a fan of the animals/clouds/sailboats that permeate Hermes and 'Gamo ties, anyways. Burberry makes a nice tie you can get on sale for 65-70 bucks, pretty durable, simple patterns, etc. Zegna you can pick up on Bluefly for decent prices.

ExGS, you must have an excellent dry cleaner because they scorch the shit out of shirts. It would be a tragedy to send a 250+ Sea Island to my dry cleaner only to have it come back a peice of cardboard. Due to this, I just can't bring myself to spend more than 130 per made-to-measure shirt. Sure the fabric isn't the softest, but after 5 or 6 months of abuse from the cleaners I can afford new ones...

Decent advice about the shirts, though. No pockets is the way to go. French cuff is ok but it just takes me 2 minutes longer to wiggle silk knots through them in the morning and I get impatient, so I don't even bother anymore. And whatever you do, don't get your initials anywhere on your shirt, unless you want to spell out "D.B.A.G."

 

if your comment was to me, i was referring to my subject line: "don't ever wear a tie with a short-sleeve shirt," as it does look horrible.

and for the record, i have a couple blue checkered/window-pane shirts and they are quite good.

 
listerine:
just got into banking at a BB and i'm what many of you call the Nouveau riche but i would not like to stand out one in terms the way i dress. i went to public school all my life and lack what the pedigreed private schooled individuals know about fashion.

greatly appreciate any words of wisdom with regards to a man's wardrobe. i guess the most popular brand of clothing is thomas pink.. and other suggestions? also, i will be buying some tailor-made suits and shirts.. what kind of material would be best (100% wool for suits, etc)? also, how many white shirts would i need in my closet (given most bankers wear white shirts daily i guess)? thanks for helping out a kid from the gutter.

oh, any advice on ties would be great too.. (type of knots, design, anything else to know about ties??)

thanks

make sure you tie a double windsor knot. go with hermes or vineyard vines ties.

 

In addition to CT, I'd also check out TM Lewin, which runs extremely great sales rather often. Also, look at Brooks Brothers (slim fit, unless you are huge) and JPress for classic shirts.

Shoes: Definitely pick up a pair of brown Gucci Classic Loafers w/ the Silver Horse Bit, and then you'll need a pair of black and maybe brown lace ups, cap toe works well.

As for Ties, I, also, am not very interested in the Ferg and Hermes patterns, and I tend to like classic striped ties. Brooks and JPress have great selections and the ties last forever. Burberry also makes a nice tie.

100% wool for sure on suits? What about a Super 120 and Cashmere Blend?

The name of the game should be traditional, classic, and simple. Classic never goes out of style.

Also, check out www.askandyaboutclothes.com. The guys there are a bit much, but it is a good place to Lurk and learn about clothes. Check out the general clothing forum, and the "Trad" forum, which is for "Traditional," and outlines an easy way to dress in the classic Ivy League style.

Also, don't sell yourself short. Many, if not most, of us came from middle class, or more humble, beginnings. You certainly aren't "from the gutter," in any sense of the word. You wouldn't be where you are if you were.

 

Tie knots are by no means set in stone, by the way. The knot should complement the size of the man, the pattern and fabric of the tie and shirt, and the width of the lapels. I really like the look of a slightly loose four-in-hand knot on a lanky-type man, for instance, but my fiance and I disagree on whether he looks best in half- or full-windsor.

So bankers: rise up and express your individuality... with your tie knot.

 

I just let my girl take me shopping and tell me what to wear, she's a WASP who's hung out with enough snooty bastards to know her stuff, I'm too lazy to learn all the details.

 
Mis Ind:
That's very smart. Get an intelligent tasteful girl and let her do you up. We LOVE that.

It's not like I have a choice, I'm practically a caveman compared to some of these guys, I guess I was too busy skirt-chasing while these guys were thumbing through catalogues...

 

I think a great way to test people's knowledge and intelligence of true high-end luxury goods is to get stuff that is not the norm. Instead of Hermes or Ferragamo do Charvet. Instead of driving a BMW get a Maserati. Instead of buying a Rolex get a Vacheron-Constantin or a patekphilippe.

You can tell the uneducated wealthy apart quite easily by doing this. The wealthy who just go for face name brands such as Hermes, BMW, Rolex etc... will not give you the same respect. Meanwhile, those who are in the know about such luxury goods will know exactly what Charvet, Maserati and Breitling are and udnerstand that these brands are on par and in many cases offer quite rare products that the face-name brand shopper would have no idea about.

 
Roller4Life:
I think a great way to test people's knowledge and intelligence of true high-end luxury goods is to get stuff that is not the norm. Instead of Hermes or Ferragamo do Charvet. Instead of driving a BMW get a Maserati. Instead of buying a Rolex get a Vacheron-Constantin or a patekphilippe.

I agree, but you pick things that are not neccesarily in the same price range either. Charvet costs 50% more than ferragamo for ties.

A Maserati costs about 50% more than a BMW.

A Vacheron is 50% more than a Rolex.

Don't turn this into a pissing contest of who can name the most expensive things...

 
Roller4Life:
I think a great way to test people's knowledge and intelligence of true high-end luxury goods is to get stuff that is not the norm. Instead of Hermes or Ferragamo do Charvet. Instead of driving a BMW get a Maserati. Instead of buying a Rolex get a Vacheron-Constantin or a patekphilippe.

You can tell the uneducated wealthy apart quite easily by doing this. The wealthy who just go for face name brands such as Hermes, BMW, Rolex etc... will not give you the same respect. Meanwhile, those who are in the know about such luxury goods will know exactly what Charvet, Maserati and Breitling are and udnerstand that these brands are on par and in many cases offer quite rare products that the face-name brand shopper would have no idea about.

You make valid points, but at the same time, I love the happy-go-lucky animal-esque prints on Hermes and Ferragamo ties. Also, I have heard charvet wears out quickly.

 

That's very true for a tall or long-torsoed man, but my fiance is 5'5" so we tend to have problems with his ties being too long, not too short. I agree, though; if you like the full windsor and are not a short guy, you need to be very watchful about length.

 
Mis Ind:
That's very true for a tall or long-torsoed man, but my fiance is 5'5" so we tend to have problems with his ties being too long, not too short. I agree, though; if you like the full windsor and are not a short guy, you need to be very watchful about length.

Miss Ind: i'm 5'7 and a full windsor with a small knot is just perfect(down to my buckle). Of course, regular tie length

For the rest, I don't understand why anyone would spend thousands on a suit/shoes. Isn't banana republic or geoffrey bean good enough? I just can't fathom spending over $350 on a suit. My first suit for an interview was on sale(clearance) for $135 at geoffrey bean and I was even complimented on my suit choice. Do any of you guys plan on retiring? cause at $2000 a suit, $500-1000 a pair of shoes, and $100-150 for a tie... I can only imagine how much people are spending on an apartment, cars, and dining out.

It is not about the title that you have, it is about how much money that you have.
 

Nope, they aren't constructed properly for a man's body. We buy all his suits from normal men's sources and have them tailored. But it's not all that abnormal; there are plenty of 5'5" and 5'6" guys out there... hell, there are three just on this floor. Not to mention that the tailors in this city serve a very international market, and 5'5" is only slightly on the short side for males of some nationalities.

 

"5'5" is only slightly on the short side for males of some nationalities."

I guess it's only 25th percentile for some nationalities. In America in general though it's about 5th percentile.

 
Mis Ind:
Trying to picture us as a couple? I'm 5'5".

So I guess he must be pretty paranoid about you wearing anything with heels huh ..on second thought, you don't need to answer that..

 

Nope, he's got no size issues whatsoever and loves me in heels.

Not that I'm tall enough to pull this off, but you do know that short guys plus tall girls equals face-level tits, right? A lot of short guys love that effect. And most really aren't worried about not being "tall enough", whatever that is.

 

Don't get Lewin - low quality crap.

CT is ok

Haines and Bonner is ok

Hawes and Curtis is ok

Buy something nice from Woods of Shropshire.

Fuck I am bored. Can't get these bitch ass mo fo numbers to reconcile; had to write a book in Spanish when I can't fuckin speak a word of the language - had to get some ho' to translate the original english book for me and then put thru bitch ass changes that the MD made in Spanish

Fuckin menena shit......

From the ghetto....

From the ghetto....
 

Dude you better start fathoming spending more than $350 on a suit. I am not trying to be superficial, but the process of making a suit is extremely labor intensive which requires a lot of hand sewing. This amount of work easily drives the cost of a suit in excess of $400. Not to be a snob, but you get what you pay for and if you buy 3-5 quality suits and rotate the use, you will make a good value out of them.

 

Also, there's no way around spending on apartments and dining out. This is New York. You can't cook often, and most people can't live like college students grazing out of bags and boxes forever, so you go out or order in when you want food. Apartments will run you $1200/month and often closer to $1500... for your half or third of the rent. Cars, don't bother.

By the way, your $350 suit is very likely glued together at the seams and finished off on a machine in a sweatshop located in a country that has no tailoring credentials to speak of. Probably doesn't hang right or flow right. Harsh but true.

 
Mis Ind:
By the way, your $350 suit is very likely glued together at the seams and finished off on a machine in a sweatshop located in a country that has no tailoring credentials to speak of. Probably doesn't hang right or flow right. Harsh but true.

No, those are suits under 300. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of nice suits are very overpriced. As long as you get something decent (>300 bucks) that fits decently it doesn't even matter. Hell, my old roommate got a job at BB wearing a suit that was 25% polyester, but it fit him well.

 

any bigger guys have recommendations on the nicer brands that fit broad shouldered, big chested, big armed gentlemen?

i'm 6'1, 220, and built like a linebacker and i've never been able to find house brands that fit my arms, chest, and shoulders. i usually have to buy bigger sized shirts that end up hanging over my stomach so that i don't do the chris farley 'fat guy in a little coat' routine. are there any brands out there that fit this body style?

or am i doomed to tailored shirts and jackets? if so, does anyone have recommendations for a place in nyc? does barney's tailor its house shirts? i'm not looking to spend my entire signing bonus on clothing.

i've been able to get away with ill fitting shirts and jackets in college but i don't want to look like a dumbass first year analyst that can't dress.

 

Nice problem to have, Nabokov. The good news is that when you get into a good suit, you'll look great. The bad news is that the tailoring could be very expensive. I hate it when big guys have to wear tent shirts and shapeless jackets because they have to automatically buy the largest thing just to fit the shoulders. Your shirts and suits should fit your body all the way down, and while the sad fact is that many guys need more room in the gut than in the shoulders, you have the opposite problem. So if you go off-the-rack to fit your shoulders, you end up with a whole lot of empty fabric making you look like you have a little gut in front when you actually don't.

My advice is at the very least to get those shirts taken in. It's not that expensive. If you can afford a little more, buy a big man's suit and have it fitted to your body below the chest and shoulders. Do it as a favor to your female coworkers... girls like to see a nicely-built man just as much as guys like to see the pencil skirts and stiletto heels on girls.

 

Nabokov, my bf is 6'5 230 and played d1 football, and hugo boss suits have worked well for him. Burberry also has great fitting suits, and once a year, in the spring, burberry will tailor a suit for you, you pick the material, color, lining, etc. for the price of a suit off the rack. it's usually sometime between april and may, so check! call bloomingdale's or the burberry store, that would be a great time to get a tailored suit. Joseph and Lyman and Gucci shirts have worked well for him. hugo boss shirts fit on the slim side, ralph lauren is too big and boxy.

 

I appreciate all the help. I'll look into Burberry and Hugo Boss suits.

I just hope I don't have to go into the big and tall store...really, I'm neither "big" nor "tall" so I don't want to have my wardrobe suffer because designers aren't making clothes for real men.

 

Corgi, I'd go a bit further and say that not only are suits under $350 typically fused construction, most suits under $500 are fused construction as well.

How on earth are you defining "overpriced"? I know many people use that term to attack prices that they personally do not want to pay without understanding the economics of the industry. I could see using it on a micro scale for a particular firm that was ignoring invisible-hand economics, but not for the suit industry as a whole. People choose the features they want and pay for them, and that drives suit pricing.

 

The grand compilation (sure to impress any WASP):

Suits - Anything bespoke ($3000-5000). If you cant afford bespoke go to brooks and get a MTM ($900). If you go to brooks get it cut with a slim fit if you have that body type, as this adds a non-brooks-like dynamic to it. AVOID burberry and other chav-like attire.

Shirts - Turnbull and Asser have the best shirt you can buy. 3 options for T&A: 1. Bespoke $300-500, 6 shirt mimimum 2. MTM $300-500, 3 shirt min 3. OTR $250-500 most of their standard shirt fall in the lower price range You can go Hilditch and Key which will run about $180 for a OTR. or you can stay Brooks and get a solid MTM for around $200.

Ties - Turnbull and Asser, Hermes, Charvet, Brioni (be very picky w/ the hermes/charvet/brioni, as their are some ugly/guido patterns there)

Shoes - John Lobb ($1000+), Edward Green ($1000+), Crockett and Jones ($600-800), Church's ($500) AVOID gucci, ferragamo, and any american/brooks. always go english

 

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned this, but why not custom tailors? Hong-kong tailors (such as pierremohan and more than a few others) have American roadshows where they take your measurements and make a bespoke suit for you. Amazing quality and reasonable prices (you're still going to spend at least $700).

In fact, there was a NYtimes article recently about this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/21/business/yourmoney/ 21thrifty.html?ex=1305864000&en=f187b50036328346&ei =5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Am I missing something here, guys?

 

I like Hamilton Shirts and was able to pick up a couple of great suits from Burberry over christmas on DEEP discount. I like Hermes/Ferragamo ties and am obsessed with my Ferragamo shoes. People love to talk shit online about the Studio line of Ferragamo but I find them to be a huge step up from the last pair of dress shoes I bought (cole haan). The bottom line is you are aiming to look clean and presentable. You don't need to spend a zillion dollars on your wardrobe, but if you can afford it and you appreciate clothes, go for it. If not, there is nothing wrong with Jos A Bank and the like.

 

damn!! this is crazy,,,a ticket to India costs $1000 return. i just spent bout $1500 for 3 tailored suits, 7-8 shirts, a pair of awesome lace up shoes, and everything else one can think off,,,has a combo of french cuffs' and normal buttoned shirts,,,4-5 ties etc,,,and all of them of the best quality. me think's that spending all this money is for looking good,clean and well dressed and trust me, $ 1500= INR 67000 will get you everything and more in addition to a trip to an awesome country....u just need a week's time for a holiday :) also, with about 100 people joinin various positions from my college in various I banks across the world, I am sure that I am among those who have spent the most on the dressin part,,,and the above includes a bag as well!! and i did feel as if i didnt hold back and got the best of everything available. will find out in a couple of weeks once i join :)

 
SnaFU:
damn!! this is crazy,,,a ticket to India costs $1000 return. i just spent bout $1500 for 3 tailored suits, 7-8 shirts, a pair of awesome lace up shoes, and everything else one can think off,,,has a combo of french cuffs' and normal buttoned shirts,,,4-5 ties etc,,,and all of them of the best quality. me think's that spending all this money is for looking good,clean and well dressed and trust me, $ 1500= INR 67000 will get you everything and more in addition to a trip to an awesome country....u just need a week's time for a holiday :) also, with about 100 people joinin various positions from my college in various I banks across the world, I am sure that I am among those who have spent the most on the dressin part,,,and the above includes a bag as well!! and i did feel as if i didnt hold back and got the best of everything available. will find out in a couple of weeks once i join :)

Which airline gets you a $1000 return to India. Its more like 1200-1500 on a decent airline. Agreed about getting your shit tailormade in India tho. Cheap as shit, excellent quality.

 
ghosht:
Which airline gets you a $1000 return to India. Its more like 1200-1500 on a decent airline. Agreed about getting your shit tailormade in India tho. Cheap as shit, excellent quality.

okay, $ 1200 is a more correct estimate but thts equivalent to one tie of $200 here!! :)

 

I've decided that I officially hate clothes and hate thinking about what I'm going to wear. So I'm going to just wear black pants and a white shirt everyday and then just rotate different accessories each day. Sigh. I feel better now.

 

Appropriate attire for women is divided into three categories:

  1. Said woman is 120lbs or less, wear as little as possible. Think cleavage, short skirts, high heels, tight fitting etc.

  2. Said woman is between 120 and 130 lbs. This is a touchy place to be. If said woman is tall, revert to rule number one. If said woman is short, stop eating then revert to rule number one, or simply jump down to rule number three.

  3. Said woman is 130lbs or more, wear as much as possible. Think moo moos, loose billowy clothes, etc.

 

I'm a tall woman (5'10", so over 6' in heels). I generally worry that I look masculine in suits, and the height doesn't help. The other problem is that I'm kind of busty so I feel like I either look like a man or I'm wearing a sign that says "tits anyone?"

Any tips for striking a feminine but not slutty balance? Thanks :)

 

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