What are the above firms (as well as large MMs like Citadel, Millenium) like in terms of reputation, comp, career dev (specifically macro teams)? As a NG with no control over pod/team but knowing that you will be placed in some macro desk, which would you choose?
| +38 | How much modeling do experienced HF analysts/PMs actually do? | 15 | 2h |
| +22 | Buy Side Credit - Seats / Guide | 8 | 21h |
| +18 | London buy side | 3 | 7h |
| +18 | Hedge Fund Pivot | 6 | 4h |
| +11 | Mid-career shift to buy side with niche background | 3 | 4d |
| +9 | Wfh / work remotely at MMs or SMs? | 5 | 3d |
| +3 | Atlantic Wolf Capital Closing? | 5 | 13h |
| +3 | How old is too old? | 3 | 1d |
| 0 | Walleye Capital | 1 | 2d |
| 0 | Hedge funds | 1 | 4d |
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Would probably go with Brevan Howard, but all depends on which desk you are on
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DESCO or MMs. Probably DESCO.
DESCO/ Citadel GFI >> others
DESCO > MMs > Brevan > Bridgewater
If comp, reputation, and career growth are your goals.
At Bridgewater - you'd have potentially tremendous personal and intellectual growth, but you'll be groomed to be a cog in their machine, with limited alternative career paths. DESCO is similar but different in its academic/ collaborative culture, but a better reputation and greater pay upside - more of a risk-taker culture. Brevan's performance has struggled in recent years - and I hate to extrapolate short-term trends to project long-term potential - but given that, other MMs likely have greater potential.
It'd be helpful if you elaborated on your goals and values. Otherwise, if it's as simple as you presented it, eat-what-you-kill MMs are likely your best bet.
Insightful, thank you! Would you mind elaborating on D. E. SHAW? Are Quant Traders (Proprietary Trading) in Oculus Fund are the mentioned "risk-taking" roles at the beginning? Was under the impression that Citadel FI&M is the best for macro.
I interned at one of DE Shaw/ GFI and know people who have done the other.
Happy to answer any qs u have.
Since you seem like a vet, I was wondering if you could share some thoughts about how to consider terms beyond comp in macro offers. For example, what do “standard terms” look like in terms of noncompetes and IP nowadays for new grads? How strict are firms on enforcing their noncompetes?
Also, any advice on sacrificing early comp (eg 40-50% less) to work with and learn from a really great PM compared to a higher paying offer but uncertainty about PM and risk taking culture?
Sorry, I genuinely can't compare standard terms for IP, non-competes, etc. High degree of dispersion across companies.
It's always difficult talking about tradeoffs - eg comp vs other considerations - because that comes down to your values. But for someone junior, I'd overwhelmingly consider long-term career potential. Whatever seat you take, standard of living will largely be comfortable (undifferentiated). Seats that pay well now will have longer-term pay potential - it's generally in the nature of their up-or-out, high churn business model. That said, you could be pigeonholed as a junior strategist in a high-paying seat - and if you don't have 'sponsors' and/or take charge of your career, I could imagine your skill set, comp, and career potential plateauing - although I haven't seen that much before.
Alternatively, I've seen plenty of people make the jump from middling post-college seats (e.g. research boutiques) to working with high calibre HFs (Citadel, Brevan, DESCO) - I'm not sure that was due to great mentors or their capacity to grind and network; likely the latter.
It sounds like you're inclined to take the seat with the 'really great PM' - and I'm inclined to agree with you. I would be thoughtful in (implicitly) asking him something along the lines of - 'if you're so great, why can't you pay like my other option'. I was fortunate to have a great mentor, but also identify when there were diminishing returns to our work relationship - and lateral. He made a world of difference to my career trajectory and I would absolutely prioritize this if I were you.
Which gets me to the original point - you need to be very introspective and crystal clear about your values (effectively a personal SWOT analysis). There are many ways to make money in the markets, and navigate your career, and this introspection will ultimately provide that guidance. Perhaps I'm stating the obvious...
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