The job market is insane right now and I've been opportunistically interviewing for a few roles in seats all over the map including at HFs. I've been doing a lot of thinking lately and am pretty sure I want to leave PE to try something new before I get locked in with a VP title and carry.
So for those among you who have left / are thinking about leaving HF seats, why? Alternatively, if you fucking love your job and will never leave, why?
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As someone who did the IB -> PE -> HF thing I just got burned out on the public side. Your PM really sets the tone of the team dynamics, so you have to be absolutely sure that you can work with them for a long time. Get their references and ask the hard questions about what they're like under pressure.
My PM is an absolute basket case who has the emotional intelligence of a middle schooler - always yelling and complaining about everything. I like the public market enough, just not the team. Hedge fund model is also just a long slow burn for me, where I'm working 12 hour days but it's always on the mind. I've made quite a bit of cash through work and investing on my own where I don't really need to take shit from someone who acts like a toddler. If you're smart, hard-working, and are somewhat socially competent you have a lot of avenues even after time at a hedge fund (i.e. PE, Corp Dev., Other).
My two cents is the grass isn't always greener and if you have a good team / boss stick with them. The finance industry doesn't train people on how to manage others or be good bosses.
So true.
This is helpful color, thanks. A few follow-ups if you don't mind:
If you've left/are leaving, where did you go/where will you go?
Anything you wish you could go back and tell yourself before you accepted the HF offer?
Were there any warning signs about the PM from day one?
1/ I'm going to take some time off but have had a few offers to do things in the PE / Corp. Dev realm. Just focused on a place that offers better work/life balance as I'm kind of done with the rat race for now - just burnt out and have been lucky with my own investments so have a good nest egg built.
2/ If someone warns you about working for someone, heed them
3/ Not from day one but within the first month. Just how he treated other people who he thoughts wasn't worth their time.
Have been following you for a while onebagger, can you let us know more about the job market right now and the opportunities you're thinking about? Assuming some combination of (i) other PE, (ii) corp. dev, (iii) PE bus. dev, (iv) early-stage? Happy to trade notes about the specifics if you're interested.
Wow, I'm flattered. Didn't know that was a thing on WSO. I'm going to have to be more conscious of my low quality posts now
Job market is the best I've ever seen it in my 5+ years in industry. I say that based on the number of finance postings I see on LinkedIn and the number of recruiter cold-calls and reach-outs I get. I've been through no less than 9 processes to some degree in the past 6 months:
- 3 Corp Dev roles, one of which I turned down and another (very early stage company) that completely shifted priorities after telling me to expect an offer. Actively negotiating terms on the third role now and if they give me even close to what I ask for I will likely take this.
- 2 IBD roles which I took the screener/recruiter interviews for and subsequently turned down. My policy is to never say no to a recruiter because you never know when they might show you something else down the line, but I sure as shit don't want to go back into banking.
- 2 PE lateral roles which I took the screener for and subsequently turned down. I'm very burnt out with PE, and think I am actually in a very good seat relatively, speaking so doesn't make sense to lateral as a 3rd year Assoc and have to prove myself again.
- 2 HF roles that I'm actively interviewing for. Honestly not sure that I want to make this move, but I am going hard at the processes all the same, even if its only to see if I "have what it takes" to get an offer. The holy trinity of IB->PE->HF is hard to say no to though, as is the right-hand skew on earning potential. I'm not convinced I could handle the very specific kind of stress that comes with the territory though.
In summary I think I am leaning towards the LIFE end of the work-life spectrum. I've got a decent nest egg saved up and just miss having a life. PE has taken me to a few new cities and I want to go home and sit on cruise control for a while. I'm a bit of a black sheep in that I never intended to end up in Finance after studying STEM, it just sort of happened, and now I have the golden handcuffs.
Thanks for this fulsome response. I'm pretty visible on this account, but let's trade notes on corp. dev. compensation possibilities, including equity, for someone in our (similar) seats. I have some good first-hand details I can share too. PM me if you're interested :)
How come no one follows me?
As an earlier poster said, it's all about the main guy at the fund.
If your PM is a total jerk, these HF jobs can be pure hell. Would also caveat that even if a fund has an amazing year w/ huge AUM growth, IF the main PM is a bad guy, don't expect to get paid well....suddenly all your great ideas become his and his poor performers become yours....
However, if your PM is a great guy AND a good investor, it's a very rare golden seat. Throw in a PM with good marketing / asset raising savvy, and it's a rare trifecta. These good seats are near impossible to find as no one ever leaves.
Good luck!
can't agree more, the people issue esp the boss relationship is very crucial to people's career
Are most of these seats at single manager shops or equally spread out in pods as well?
The formulaic payout of the MMs tends to reduce some SM politics, but it also introduces their own issues.
If you're at a SM and not the PM, you're 100% beholden to whatever the PM wants. If you're at a MM and in a sub-PM role (akin to a senior analyst at a SM), you have your own book and a PnL cut. Sure the head PM can de-risk your book if their own book underperforms, BUT you still have a formulaic payout that removes much of the drama / politics the main person can bring. However, if you're an analyst at a pod, I'm not sure how different it is from being at a SM.
There are challenges specific at the MMs from moving from the analyst role to sub-PM to PM at the MMs. It makes sense that a MM PM would want to keep a very good analyst in their analyst role as long as they can. The good thing about the MMs is that ppl can move around within the firm, from pod to pod. So in theory a good analyst should be able to leave their PM and move to another pod.
Thanks for the reply - any tips for evaluating the PMs while interviewing?
SMs - ask for the fund's past letters / deck, will give you insight into the PM / fund. Offer to sign an NDA if needed.
MMs / SMs - speak to former employees (a must), ask about employee turnover, how incentive is structured, if there's anything at the fund that can be done better, etc....
Speak to others in the industry who work in similar strategies. It's a very small world, most ppl in the same strategy know each other and they especially know who all the crazies are....the sell side can help w/ this, esp sales cvg.
where didyou see the HF job postings?
Haven't seen a single 'posting' but have had 5 recruiters reach out so far this year about HF roles, exclusively at MMs
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