Would like to ask how to choose between different pods at multimanagers. What are some questions I should ask? Number of people, aum, sharpe, etc
Also, how easy is it to switch between pods at multis?
Does the brand name of the multimanager matter? Ie citadel versus exodus?
What if one manager has hopped around several shops and one has been at the same one for several years?
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what role are you shooting for?
quant
What matters most would be the AuM per person in the team to get a sense on how much can the PM spend on each analyst paycheck. Don't think you are going to get the sharpe ratio or the annual pnl of each pod. Most PMs don't share that info and will ask you to mind your own business if you ask these kind of questions. What matters is also the level of transparency and responsibility the PM is willing to give after tyou proved that you are good. Some PMs will just pigeonhole you, some will make sure that you have a career progression within the pod.
It is hard to switch between the pods as PMs don't want to mess with other PMs' employees. They want to keep good relationship between each other. Analysts switching from one team to another because the pay is better or the job is more interesting would destroy any good relationship between PMs and would make them suspicious of each other.
I don't have much experience but my guess would be that brand does not matter as they all are very similar. What matters much more is the work you do, the strategy you follow, and the pnl you can make.
For the last point I would say that if a PM stayed for a long time at a shop it means that in most cases he delivered consistent pnl and the shop agreed to pay him good money so he stayed. However, a shop hopper is not necessarily a bad signal. PM could have been fired many times due to max drawdown but it could also mean that it is a very good PM that chose to play the competition between shops to get higher pay.
You make some really great points. I guess I thought it'd be easy to at large multi to jump around if the first doesn't work out through networking. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic on this point.
Just sent you a pm to provide some more background info.
I've been working in that model the last four years so I'll throw in my two cents:
-Feel free to ask about AUM, # of analysts, risk limits. Don't ask about Sharpe, that's something a PM gives in a job interview, not to any random dude applying for a spot. I wouldn't ask PM about comp, but maybe ask one of the analysts. A PM who sticks around a long time but has a lot of turnover could be a comp warning flag.
-switching between pods is very difficult due to the political nature. I've rarely seen it done outside of a PM getting blown out and another PM picking up the leftover analyst(s).
-The big pod shops are all different in themselves (you'll see the nuanced differences as you talk to ppl and do research). The big three being Citadel, Point72, Millennium. Exodus Point is a new one but I think it gets up there in time. Baly has been struggling and has been shrinking. For quant, doesn't really matter (matters more for equities and maybe credit), what really matters for quant is PM and his/her track record.
-hopping around could be good or bad...good in the sense that the PM is well known and shops are fighting over him. Bad in the sense that he gets blown out a lot. It's very hard to make a general statement on that one.
Hope that helps.
In what scenario does a PM blow out a lot and still have a seat?
thanks for the super detailed reply! Just sent you a pm.
I've also been in this model and this is pretty dead on. People never switch between pods. I'd say that the PMs who have been at many shops were probably blown out. Not always, but usually, a PM sticking around is a good sign that their PnL has been good and they are getting treated well.
Any insight on Numerus Partners within Millenium?
Not an intern!
By all means, ask PMs about their performance. Do it respectfully and not in the first interview, but once you're deep into the process you have every right and responsibility to yourself to figure out if he knows what he is doing.
Maybe no need to go into super detailed Sharpe, but ask about returns in the last 3-5 years and what do your drawdowns look like is totally legit.
Any PM that gets defensive about these questions, you don't want to work for.
I second this, but would focus more on AUM growth and risk limits rather than sharpe. Every other PM I met in L/S claimed to have sharpe 2+ even when they obviously do not. They do not however tend to exaggerate AUM because that is more difficult to "fudge".
Running a pod as a PM is more than just performance (pnl, sharpe, dd) anyway. It's a relations game with the execs running MM as well, which to some extent decides whose book gets cut in bad times and who gets more AUM in good times. AUM growth is not a perfect indicator, but probably the best available to you.
How do you even choose? In my experience you get to interview at one of their pods, whichever one they choose, and you either get the job or you get dinged. I have never had multiple interviews for different roles.
What’s considered a decent AUM for a pod at platform like Citadel? Heard their allocated capital per team - if the pm doesn’t get cut and consistently makes money - is bigger than that at other MM shops ( Millennium, Point72). Is 1.5-2 billion considered to be on the higher end of the spectrum?
1. When you start the interview process at a MM HF, usually you only know which sector teams are hiring. You choose which sector you're most interested in, interview with that PM, and if it doesn't work out often times you strike out of that MM HF. So by the time you get to ask a PM these questions about his team and performance, its too late to turn back anyway, right?
2. People in MM HF: How much importance would you place on sector coverage (let's say you're junior and are more interested in the TMT sector than FIG) and culture fit (how much you get along with the PM/team) relative to factors like AUM/head and historical performance?
I'm on the hiring end of this process, and can promise you that the candidate does not choose pod, much less sector.
95% of the time, the PM needs to hire someone to cover say medical devices. He asks HR or business development to help with the search, and they go look for candidates with the relevant background. If 2 different teams at the same MM are looking to hire in the same subsector, a candidate can interview with both and conceivably choose one of the 2 if he gets offers from both.. but no one goes as a candidate into a MM and get asked "what would you like to cover" because 99% of the time, the PM is looking for specific expertise that you either have or don't have.
Perhaps it is different for more junior hires (e.g. from MBA or banking analysts)? In my experience, the pods often say they don't need to hire someone with prior experience in their sector, and are more focused on finding someone with a good investor skillset.
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