Quant PM from LO to SM/MM HF

Hi folks

I currently work as a equity PM at a large asset management firm. I manage two equity portfolios with ~1 bn USD. One has a very good performance (IR>1.5), the other one is just OK (IR<0.5).

I am interested in moving to a MM HF for the following reasons and would like to get your view as I might be wrong:

  1. Comp upside can be larger at SM/MM HF. Currently, I have a good fixed salary, bonus is about 30-50%, fund performance does not really matter.
  2. I currently have great job security but since I am at my end 30s I think I can take on more risk. Should I get fired after 1-2 years at my new job, I would not be too old to find a new one.
  3. Work life balance currently is great, but the job does not really feel challenging any more.
  4. The LO setting is limiting. I mostly use a quant approach, and the short leg cannot be implemented.
  5. ESG constraints are frustrating but imposed at a firm-wide level.
  6. This is the point I am mostly insecure: I am kind of an expert/senior PM and cannot really learn anything from my colleagues any more. I am sure that at MM HF I would meet better people than me but with the POD structure and based on different posts I have read in this forum I am not sure there is much of a learning experience if everyone wants to keep his style secret. Do PMs actually talk with each other at Pods?

Thanks a lot

 

Based on the most helpful WSO content, here are some insights regarding your potential move from a large asset management firm to a multi-manager (MM) hedge fund:

Key Considerations for Moving to an MM Hedge Fund:

  1. Compensation Upside:

    • Higher Potential: Compensation at MM hedge funds can indeed be higher, especially if you perform well. However, it's important to note that the environment is highly performance-driven.
    • Risk of Termination: As highlighted in previous WSO threads, even top-performing PMs can be let go after a couple of bad quarters. This is a significant risk to consider.
  2. Job Security vs. Risk:

    • Current Security: You currently enjoy great job security with a stable salary and bonus structure.
    • Risk Tolerance: Given your age and willingness to take on more risk, moving to an MM HF could be a viable option. However, be prepared for the possibility of job instability.
  3. Work-Life Balance:

    • Current Balance: You have a good work-life balance at your current job.
    • Challenge and Growth: If you seek more challenging work and growth opportunities, an MM HF might provide that, but it will likely come at the cost of your current work-life balance.
  4. Quant Approach and Constraints:

    • Limitations at LO: Your current setting limits your ability to implement a short leg and imposes ESG constraints.
    • Flexibility at MM HF: MM HFs typically offer more flexibility in terms of investment strategies, including the use of short positions.
  5. Learning and Collaboration:

    • Current Expertise: You feel that you have reached a plateau in terms of learning from your colleagues.
    • Collaboration at MM HF: The pod structure at MM HFs can be isolating, as PMs often keep their strategies secret. While there is some cross-collaboration, it may not be as extensive as you hope. As noted in WSO threads, the culture can be very "every man for himself."

Additional Insights from WSO Threads:

  • Pod Structure: PMs have full discretion over managing their pods, but there is some cross-collaboration, especially in cross-market trades (e.g., rates trades overlaid with EMFX or CDX for carry).
  • Performance Pressure: The environment is highly performance-driven, and PMs are often under significant pressure to deliver high Sharpe ratios and quick returns on ideas.
  • Networking: It's crucial to network within the firm and with other pods to maximize learning and collaboration opportunities.

Conclusion:

Moving to an MM HF can offer higher compensation and more challenging work, but it comes with significant risks, including job instability and a potentially more isolating work environment. Carefully weigh these factors against your current job security and work-life balance before making a decision.

If you have any more specific questions or need further insights, feel free to ask!

Sources: What is your relationship like with your PM?, Q&amp;A: Non-Target School to Portfolio Manager at a Top Hedge Fund – 6 Years Out of Undergrad, Life in a MM HF, Performance of the best PM’s at MM’s?, Point 72 vs Blackstone

I'm an AI bot trained on the most helpful WSO content across 17+ years.
 
Most Helpful

Inter pod communication varies a lot by firm but is uncommon if you get hired as a PM running your own pod. You should give it a try if you think you have a differentiated process and can generate PNL while restricting style factor exposures. 

It bears mentioning that unlike your current LO job, the centralized infrastructure varies a lot by fund. You need to understand the whole stack end to end (data, signals, trading, risk, optimization, operations) to be a successful pod PM. As a quant it may be especially onerous as you will have to rebuild most of this stack from scratch, and most funds will not want a PM to go their first year without putting on risk and making PNL. If your process is really a factor neutral 1.5 Sharpe, this could easily mean you spend 6 months building out your whole stack and lose money over the next 6. Then you're collecting zero bonus and fighting for your job the next 6 months. 

If you think your strategy would jump from 1.5 Sharpe to 2.5+ market/factor neutral and you can still run $1b GMV, though, that could be 50+ mm PNL and you could make 8 figures. Question is if you want to make that bet on yourself?

 

I spend too much times in mandatory ESG working groups pushing back, but this is due to the large organization and I could live with it. The real ESG constraints are that I sometimes cannot buy the stocks me or my algos are interested in. This has cost performance significantly. I can prove this as I have been tracking an alternative portfolio for more than a year but ESG has a lot of momentum within the firm as top management seems to believe they can attract additional clients with it. There is nothing I can do at the moment.

 

I make less than 200k fixed salary. To understand better my apparent low salary, you should know two things: 1) I work in continental Europe. 2) Half of the money I manage is internal firm money. So if there was a bad year, there would not be much outflow. However, if there is a really good year, nothing happens either. The only way to make 500k is to jump 1-2 positions and manage a small team. I have such colleagues, but they are ~50 years old and already think more or less of their retirement. I am sure most of them would not find a new job if laid off.

 

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