Quant PM - Q&A
Having been a longtime observer of this site, and following several discussions in different threads, I've decided it's time to open the floor to any questions people might have about the realm of quantitative research and trading in hedge funds.
Regarding my background, I possess both an undergraduate and master's degrees in mathematics, as well as a PhD in astrophysics. I entered the hedge fund industry directly from academia, starting as a quantitative researcher before progressing through the ranks over the past 15 years to PM. Currently, I lead a team of 11, comprising 9 researchers and 2 software engineers. My career has spanned several leading quantitative funds and platforms, and I am presently employed at one such platform.
I consider myself fortunate at this stage in my career to have the freedom to develop trading strategies across any asset class of my choosing, though I hold the most expertise in commodities and equities.
My visits to this website are somewhat irregular, but I intend to respond to questions as I can. I'm unsure how much interest there will be in this topic on this site, but I'm more inclined to engage with questions that require concise responses if there are a lot of questions.
Thanks for doing this. What was your biggest paycheck and how long it took you to get there?
Like I mentioned in my original post I specialise in commods and equities so 2022 was a massive year for me and the team. So roughly 13 years in (when I was 36), cleared $140m which is just slightly surreal to type out. I personally could have taken more but I payed on average 8 figure bonuses out to the entire research team just to set everyone up for life, im a pretty relaxed guy and dont really think stress helps anyone when it comes to the job. Paying my people is a long term decision to get 1) loyalty (they know I was far more generous than I had to be), 2) I wanted to attract additional talent in some areas and this makes negotiations very easy and 3) the difference for me making $140m or $180m is sort of insignificant.
Now there is a lot of people on this site that will read this and just not understand how this is possible/call bs. What I say to this is that there is a small group of people in this industry that have done better numbers than this. Is it possible to ever expect to get to this stage yes, is it likely absolutely not. I am an extreme outlier but I know senior PMs at millennium who have total career earnings of over a billion...
Ok so you're saying you cleared ~$1bn+ in PnL in 2022 at one of the major platforms - definitely possible but if you did almost certainly someone here would know immediately who you are...
You can only be at one of two places taking this much risk - Citadel or Millennium. Citadel would not let you trade huge size in commodities and in equities. Their commodities business only lets you trade commodities. And their quant business isn't at the same type of scale nor do they let you have full autonomy/ PnL ownership.
So let's say you had your massive year at MLP. They were up 12% on 40bn of AUM in 2022. That means that they probably were up gross around 8-9 billion. So you generated 10-15% of MLPs entire PnL in 2022 and you think you're anonymous? Possible but fishy
You do know that MLP's total PnL generated since inception is around 50bn right? Over 30+ years? So you are saying you know multiple PMs at MLP who have generated over $5bn of PnL for millennium.. and in the past payouts were lower like 10-12% so 8bn?
Out of the literal thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of risk takers that have been there over the years.. yeah ok..
U did undergrad and a masters at one school, went somewhere else for your PhD, and still finished by age 23? did u graduate high school early?
140M is truly life changing. First thing I would buy is a villa in the emerald coast and a small yacht. That wouldn’t even set me back that much. 15M tops, so about a fifth of the take home on the 140.
Where curious what you bought with that money.
13 years in you were 36, so you started in quant finance when you were 23? Which means you already had completed your astrophysics PHD by the time you were 22/23? I’m not sure how someone manages that unless you entered college at the age of 15
Not sure why people dont believe you. There was literally a Chinese guy from 2Sigma who posted his TC progression (screenshot from the company rewards site lmfao) on 1point3acres as a QR from 2018 and with only 5 YOE and made 20M TC. Two Sigma isnt known as a high paying firm
Thanks for doing this. Why did you move between firms? Comp, culture, getting closer to a PM seat, or other reasons?
Was very lucky to start my career under a very very good fundamental PM at one of the platforms that was extremely open minded about quant strategies, was there for 5 years and basically turned his mind/process into systematic strategy that he could manage sort of without me, this led to some stagnation in my career development so I decided I was going to leave but he is still my mentor (basically my dad in a non weird way....) to this day. He set me up at a closed quant fund where he knew the cio/founder where I was made a PM and started developing my own strategies expanding asset classes, we had a good enough relationship where he waived my non compete and allowed me to take a couple of the guys I had under me which helped a lot. Stayed for 5 years again until I got poached by a different platform, where I have been ever since. My big thing is that I like to be left alone.... I dont want to deal with a load of bullshit from management. Just absolute freedom which the platform gave me.
You are a brilliant guy for sure, finished 3 stem degrees in 6 years from I’m assuming top schools. Why did you choose to move out of academia and specifically join a fundamental shop ?
What are the key skills you look for in an analyst when recruiting for someone to join your team. In general key areas of knowledge or skills an undergrad can get a head start in to give them a competitive advantage or at least a headstart.
I want you to have done something exceptional, that normally involves contradicting the consensus viewpoint in research in a stem topic. I love non traditional thinkers that have basically no experience in the markets, it means I get to educate them (which I like to think is better than what academia can do)
This is great, thanks for doing this.
If I'm a sub-pm who can show consistent PNL, in case my pod blows up, what the the platforms that would be most likely to promote to PM?
Completely depends what the strategy is and what funds are looking for at the time. If you have a systematic RV nat gas strategy the place that's most likely going to promote you to PM is the place that's looking for a PM which fits the background of systematic RV nat gas strategy
What do you think of the bank QIS strategies compared to quant hedge fund strategies ?
Probably can say this in one word..... Underwhelming
For commods, broadly whats your range of time horizons and products? I.e. oil/gas futures, sub-hourly to daily? Do you hold positions for longer than days? Do you do any softs/metals? And do you do any non-exchange traded power like FTRs or virtuals?
We run strategies in energy, ags mainly and occasionally metals.
I can't really get into particulars of time horizon because that's somewhat sensitive because its integral to why are commods algos especially in gas have done very well over the years and im yet to actually meet someone that has come up with what we have.....
Everything is exchange traded, try and keep it simple and products relatively liquid
Got it, thanks. Definitely understand on the sensitivity, especially if you haven’t seen it replicated yet. Best of luck!
Also realize this is sensitive, but just very generally how much does commod fundamentals play into your strategies? You mentioned starting under a fundamental PM, so I imagine at least a bit. Mostly wondering if you do anything purely statistical in commods.
What was your worst year, and what happened?
2020 was a relatively rough one for the models, we did okay from a pnl standpoint but a lot of that came from my understanding of the market and really getting hands on with some of the strategies to protect the book. Like I mentioned in above comment I started out under a very good fundamental PM so I do have pretty good understanding around it all.
I realised that year that even though we were incredibly diversified across asset classes a lot of our edge came from a pretty narrow range of 'techniques' and when the market is behaving a bit weird they dont perform that well.
Again, overall results were pretty good still got low teen % returns but it was stressful for me and it didn't feel like a science it felt like I was gambling...
Low teen% returns on a bad year? Where can I invest?
What's your edge
I know its a joke but I can actually answer this.....
Before I say this im not trying to come across as a dick but its just the reality.
1) If you could build someone for this job it would literally be me.... I am really really smart academically, have extreme control of my mental state, pretty good eq and one of the most competitive people you will ever meet.
2) I am very very good at getting the most out of a team and finding peoples strengths and weaknesses and adjusting for them. If you then hire some of the smartest people in the world and you can get the most out of them.... everything just seems easy.
So the edge is people.
Not the OP but would love to hear more specifically - what’s your edge in the strategy? Can you give us an example in equities (things you look at / dots you connected in the past that others simply did not)?
Can you give us an actual example of edge in the strategy / past trades that worked out? Equities if possible, thanks!!
Curious what types of personal sacrifices/changes you’ve made as your career progressed (if any)? The way you laid it out sounds pretty stable, but did you have to do things like move cities? Does the job have a big impact on your personal life, kids, etc.?
Im British so did undergrad and masters at Cambridge and then went to Stanford for my Phd. First two roles were in the states then I have moved back to London.
I really haven't had to sacrifice much in all honesty but I am naturally a very disciplined individual. I had to stop playing rugby because of being out in the states and risk of a head injury. Have never had a sip of alcohol or done drugs because it never interested me even at 16. If I was a big partier though that wouldn't have worked so for most people not touching drugs/alcohol would have been a needed sacrifice.
I met my wife when I was 24, married at 28 and have a couple kids now. Never had any issues around that but my wife is incredible and puts up with me, I dont know how many people could...
My hours have never been bad really since being PM its a 9-5 5 days a week, so never had to miss anything important and if I did need, everyone knows that I just need to be left alone because its serious.
A big thing on why I moved to my current platform is they basically gave me an extremely competitive compensation structure and said they wouldn't interfere with my personal life at all....
Amazing. Congrats, seriously!
Not saying it’s necessarily easy or repeatable, but I think its important to have stories like this on the forum where theres so much discussion on awful WLB. Feels like so many people starting out think they need to ruin their personal lives for the job. Its really just selection bias as normally people with success and good WLB aren’t posting. Thanks again for doing this.
General life advice for undergrads/new grads in physics/math? What subjects or skills should one pay special attention to in school?
Set goals that are too high and try and reach for them but be careful in being realistic about the field in which that aim is in.
Get good at problem solving and thinking in non traditional ways.
I was a good kid and had everything sort of figured out....
For college/grad students what courses would you recommend that help you on the job? For math what type of calculus and statistics courses would you recommend?
Okay so my initial thought was to just say take the hardest possible courses because this should challenge you the most but also pick stuff you're interested in learning about because you will be more willing to really think about things.
I think physics is best degree followed by maths.
Thanks, Specifically what physics and maths courses? Any niche courses that are rare or unpopular but have material that is actually useful for the job?
the only math u need is calc 1 for when u end up at T ROW PRICE lol
Thanks for having a Q&A (and actually answering them).
Just curious on this, and don’t mind me asking: But any plans to retire or are you already enjoying life with the earnings you made? Congrats on the 100+ mn but will you still keep chugging away just out of pure love for the game?
I have a fucking fantastic life at the moment so no plans on stopping any time soon. I basically have everything I could ever want now which is a weird thing but very nice. If I stopped work id go crazy with nothing to think about. In the future might return to academia and see if I can make a stab at some of the big problems but not really concerned about it yet. So from this point on its just love of the game.
(Only issue is the wife is rather expensive so if I retired she might bleed me dry in a couple years, she has got used to the high life)
Thanks for doing this. Can I have a job?
I am scrappy, willing to do your laundry and babysit your kids for public markets experience (CS background)
How good are u at making coffee?
The backtest on my coffee making skills is excellent with a >2 sharpe ratio
I mean this question with respect, so please forgive my bluntness:
Do you have a general disdain for those coming from traditional finance backgrounds?
I ask this because I do come from a finance background (finance undergrad, bank/brokerage) experience and worry about my chances about going quant.
It seems to me that unless you have been very mathematical / STEM for the entirety of your life, (STEM undergrad, STEM masters > academia) then you will be heavily discounted.
Do you ever hire or look for experience in finance or do you exclusively hire phds in other fields which you can teach markets to?
What are your recommendations for those with non-STEM academic backgrounds to break into this space?
I wouldn't call it a distain for it just doesn't fit in with what im looking to do... my team is pretty out there with what we implement though so im an extreme on this scale.
Figure out how you add value to a team with your background and then exploit that skillset.
I have only hired phds as researchers but have hired swe from more traditional backgrounds
I sense his "disdain" is merely a rule of thumb for which he'll definitely make an exception if you have sufficient critical thinking to differ from convention
I'm a mid level quant/trader specializing in a specific energy commodity. I studied fixed income college and would want to move into a macro pod (either systematic or discretionary. What tips would you have for me?
Figure out what your edge is as a human and exploit it
how early on were you preparing to be a quant, like early university/HS? Did you ever consider other career paths?
How often do you get people in college looking to network with you (if ever)?
What would you consider your network to be, now as a quant pm -- by this I mean, when one thinks of PE/IB they think engaging with F500 CEOs, PEs, accountants/lawyers, investors, etc. So, is your "network" of people you would engage with more confined to your team under you, perhaps other quants, and your investors?
I was focused on academia until I was 23 and didn't do anything to prepare for it. I stopped enjoying my research near the end of my phd so stopped thinking I was going to end up a professor and in all honesty wanted to make a lot of money so markets was a good option.
Spoke to some people about it they put me in touch with people that got me interviews and just went from there. I have never actually applied from a job in a traditional sense....
Personally I done understand why people put an emphasis on network unless they are going into politics, but professional network is other PMs and management at the funds and then academics.
Imagine someone came to this realisation/discovery during their bachelors that they are not interested in academia anymore and want to make a lot of money. Still an incredibly smart person, why would you penalise him for wanting to join markets without a higher degree because he discovered this interest earlier than you. And you also claim that you like people with zero experience in markets, so why can’t you train an undergrad for the same. (Don’t mean to be aggressive just genuinely curious as I just have an undergrad and am working in research at a decent firm, I had some math Olympiad accolades which helped me break in but no big academic research)
Am in university (graduating in 2025) studying something quite quantitative like applied maths/physics. This summer I'll be interning at Citadel/Point72/MLP/Baly for a purely fundamental L/S equity role.
I'm quite interested in quantitative research, but have not seen many roles out of undergrad. From what you've seen are there ways to pivot? I could try for grad school in something quantitative but I'm sure they'd frown upon my lack of research experience. Any thoughts?
What was your time like working for a fundamental PM as a quant?
Thanks for doing this. I'm about to start as a full-time quant at one of the top prop shops (one of Jane Street, Jump Trading, HRT) soon. I've been concerned that people at these firms tend to get niched into a specific asset class or trading frequency for most of their career depending on the team they're initially assigned as a new grad, especially as headcount has exploded in the last few years. Could you offer any advice on how to develop a solid "understanding of the markets" as a junior? Additionally, have you seen traders/researchers from prop shops successfully transition to PM roles at platforms? If so, have you noticed any particular areas where quants from prop shops usually lack, compared to those who've started their careers at banks or hedge funds?
Anyone who has even interned at a serious quant firm knows this guy is bullshit. Seriously sentiment analysis with LLM? ChatGPT can spin up a better lie than that.
if you want real advice read this guide, it covers everything in detail and Gappy is legit.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/da7zfjj2rplwzf2sfiriz/Buy-Side-Quant-Job…
Yeah, I was slightly skeptical until the LLM for sentiment analysis part, after that I knew it was complete bs. Lmao as if Chatgpt can tell if someone is lying better than an actual human
What is your Sharpe? And what is the range of Sharpe ratios that you consider to be "good" and "mediocre" for pods similar to yours in terms of risk appetite and horizon? I've heard people considering 1.0 to be reasonably good Sharpe but my feeling is that yours must be much higher than this.
We’re hiring for someone to lead a robust build of a specific long term forecasting model (5+ years). The data pipeline will be massive for this model and will aggregate info from likely 10+ sources that will periodically update ranging from weekly to monthly.
Knowing this little amount of info, would it ever make sense to recruit someone who has a background like yourself or the people you hire? I understand that the longer a forecast, the less precise it will be, so we are aiming for directional accuracy with as much precision as possible, so would a traditional hire make more sense (e.g., economist or data scientist)?
What does your hiring process for swes look like? Im a swe and curious about this field. Do you have certain types of swe backgrounds you look for?
Any specific resources/books/media/papers that you found extremely helpful?
Guys you can stop your questions this guy has 100% been busted as a fraud
I commented on an earlier comment on this thread which has most likely got lost but I think its borderline retarded the reaction people have had to this guy and the reasons why a load of you have invalidated that this guy could be the real thing.
I did an interview with a team that fitted this description a couple years ago, some of the smartest people I have ever met at the analyst level and overall great culture. They gave the hardest interviews id ever experienced and I was unfortunately cut before really progressing. I can't speak to if the PnL figure is real but I've heard rumours of it in the quant circles at the funds.
Also for the comment on using LLMs for sentiment analysis, this isn't an outrageous statement at all. If you were using that as source of alpha then its stupid but I don't know any 'long-term' quant team that isn't implementing this stuff into the larger infrastructure. The whole point of the LLM is that it can understand context of comments, this makes the models far more accurate than past sentiment analysis techniques. So what you do is just have these models analysing MASSIVE amounts of data in any language constantly coming out from global news/companies/local news/blogs etc, processing this information and giving quantitative decisions on it, which is then just used as another feature into the larger model infrastructure.
But shitting on this guy is why this site should just be used for chatting shit, a load of people have made some slightly ill informed speculations from historical data points and decided to completely invalidate everything he is saying. Maybe until you have some hard evidence just wait because if this guy is real then what an asset to have on the site.
Maybe someone will find something that proves he is bullshitting and ill eat my words but until then probably best to see what advice he gives out.
What firm did you interview at? Would help back up your claims
This works the other way, you make such outlandish claims anonymously you better be able to back this up, especially given how easy OP made it to confirm this shit is fake. Similar to the Apollo Q&A in the PE forum, I agree such profiles are an asset but liars and frauds are not.
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