Quant strategy

I am 16 and currently developing a mean reversion strategy by analyzing about 200 technical and fundamental pieces of data for the top 25 intraday equity losers and gainers. What are the odds of long term profitability on this? I am working to get funded at my college to develop a quant fund and implement this strategy.

 

Depends. What's the PNL? Are your factors actually correlated with the performance of the assets you've chosen? What creates your signals? What is the underlying idea for each part of your strategy?

So many questions need answers for me to provide a reasonable response.

 

Been running strat the last 9 months and returned 20% but in recession. I think they are because I have been running it about a year. For signals I look at thousands of different technical and fundamental things from the data For instance what causes one stock to marginally outperform the market in a given period of time and what Causes one stock with worse fundamentals to outperform a stock in the same industry with better fundamentals. The strategy is based on a couple different things. Joel greenblatt and Edward Thorpe both wrote great books which helped in the development

 

There you see it - you already have a strategy in mind, you're now analysing 200 pieces of data with the intent of fleshing out that strategy/ hypothesis. That's data mining - you can always find evidence within a window of data for certain strategies as long as you keep mining the data and trying out diff methodologies of sampling. Not to mention 200 isn't long enough. I'm no expert in quant strategies but isn't there barely any evidence for mean reversion and TA? Some food for thought

 

Why would 200 not be enough? Joel greenblatt developed a strategy based solely on ROC and he is highly successful. What different fundamental or technical pieces of data do you think I could put I ? I already have every “mainstream” fundamental and technical piece of data (p/e roc p/s ev/ ebitda 50/100/200 day m.a)

 

Its probably easier if you try to get an entry level job at a reputable quant fund to learn the ropes first. If you try to each yourself, you're probably going to data mining as others have mentioned- ex: come up with a fantastic backtest that doesn't work live. Because if you try enough different things, eventually one of them will work by random chance. One way you can help yourself is by using in and out-of-sample- keep some part time period of the data (say the last X number of years) completely separate and untouched, and then don't look at it at all when developing your strategy. Then, at the end, when your strategy is finalized (and won't change anymore), evaluate how it would have done on this separate period of data. If it works on this separate sample, that is a better indication it will work live (but not a guarantee).

 

Here’s the thing though all of the fundamental do have an effect on the stock. The stock market does not just move randomly. Do you think it is so far fetched that there is a strategy that could predict the slightest portion of the market. Just a slight advantage such as knowing that something happens 60 percent of the time would be huge. Also I am not backtesting this. I am looking at the top intraday losers and gainers every day starting nine months ago.

 
jacobtaggart06

Here's the thing though all of the fundamental do have an effect on the stock. The stock market does not just move randomly. Do you think it is so far fetched that there is a strategy that could predict the slightest portion of the market. Just a slight advantage such as knowing that something happens 60 percent of the time would be huge. Also I am not backtesting this. I am looking at the top intraday losers and gainers every day starting nine months ago.

What do you think the term backtesting means?

 
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I always give the same answer everytime this question comes up: There are thousands of hedge funds that have entire teams of quant PhDs working on this problem full-time, and they spend tens of millions of dollars on data and computing resources you can't even imagine. Do you really think you are such a genius that your part time hobby project developed on a budget of almost zero by a teenager with no training in investing will find a working strategy that all those hedge funds overlooked? At the very least, you should have a story about where you edge is coming from and why your strategy hasn't already been arbitraged away by other algo traders who have access to all the same data and tools that you do.

But everytime I say that, people always reply with the same objections: my capital is smaller so I can pursue trades that are too small for big hedge funds, or what about Ken Griffin who was just like me when he started his hedge fun as a college student, or I'm not saying I'm a genius but I did read lots of books about investing and that's why I was able to find this amazing strategy that no one ever discovered before.

So good luck! Maybe you'll be the one who succeeds. I'm rooting for you! 

 

Yes I've though Of that many many times. My edge is pretty much nothing and I know it's probably not possible but even for that sliver of a chance that I'm right, I'm willing to risk everything. Also a slight edge in the market is not improbable wouldn’t u think? Just something that happens 60 percent of the time would be enough to marginally outperform the market correct?

 
jacobtaggart06

Yes I've though Of that many many times. My edge is pretty much nothing and I know it's probably not possible but even for that sliver of a chance that I'm right, I'm willing to risk everything. Also a slight edge in the market is not improbable wouldn't u think? Just something that happens 60 percent of the time would be enough to marginally outperform the market correct?

If you can be right 60% of the time you are absolutely crushing the market. It seems like you are still missing a lot of the basic math/probability/analytical tools to understand what you are doing here. Take your time and actually study this. 

 

jacobtaggart06

Also a slight edge in the market is not improbable wouldn't u think? Just something that happens 60 percent of the time would be enough to marginally outperform the market correct?

The key insight here is that having a slight edge in the market is definitely possible if you have the resources and advantages of, say, Citadel or RenTech. But (no offense) those guys have so many advantages over an individual like you that you don't even understand how many light years ahead of you they are. Maybe there is a pattern that happens 60% of the time...but if you (as an individual working with non-professional tools) noticed it, then one of the hundreds of PhDs at Citadel and RenTech would almost certainly have noticed it too, and would also be trading it so much that the price would have corrected itself already and then there's no more alpha left in the trade for you.

But everybody has to see it for themselves before they believe it. So if this is something interesting to you, then try paper trading your strategy going forward starting today. (I don't recommend you risk real money for the first year. Just write down the trades you pretend to do. I'm assuming your trades are small enough that you wouldn't move the market, so you can ignore that for now). Make sure you're honest about writing down exactly when and at what prices you would have bought/sold. (No fair waiting till the end of the day and then telling yourself that you would have sold at such-and-such price several hours ago. You have to write down the trade you're doing at exactly that minute or else it doesn't count). 

You may find that your strategy behaves very differently when you look into the future than when you look into the past. But if after a year of this paper trading, you still think you're profitable, then come back and we'll talk. :-) 

 

Lot of good info here. Unfortunately, like many other commenters state; I do think that you need to have a little bit of humble pie before you go looking for investors to fund your portfolio.

An alpha that predicts/ uses (only market/ price?) data on only the top n winners and bottom n losers sounds like a wild strategy for small n (and probably large n). Maybe your alpha is more event driven and greatly depends on monetizing earnings events or other things of that ilk, idk, you’re 17 and that probably sounds like gibberish to you.

Okay, so if you ended up creating a L/S portfolio off whatever in gods name free data you’re using to predict top winners and losers (? Or only just use that for universe selection, still makes me queasy), you’re going to have to tell me a lot about your portfolio construction process for me to discern whether you’re really just betting on factors or not (another sentence that probably makes no sense to you). In short, an example would be that you could gain access to the returns of something that tracked the market, even levered or “outperforming” the market as you state (big ups yourself that you’re using a benchmark), say even several X times the cap weighted market portfolio return. That exists, is cheap (in some sense ie the fee there relative to paying an active manager), and no investor is going to give you money to go and do that. Additionally as long as they’re not idiots it’s pretty quick to tell whether you’re just riding factors or not (especially with position level data, but for an investor they’ll could probably do it with just correlations of portfolio level returns). Now there is some theory on factor betting and edges there/ what even defines a “factor” in a philosophical sense but long story short you may have just developed a model that works on predicting something that is notoriously hard to predict (just by its own price/ returns data) that isn’t really differentiated wrt actually having “idiosyncratic” alpha/ returns.

Moving off that topic I will echo some of the other responders here along with my own institutional stat arb pm insight of: y’a need to buy the data to extract the alpha to make the portfolios to then go and systematically trade (another difficulty there but one commenter mentioned paper trading and that’s a good idea to start). Maybe just maybe if you have great feature selection/ modeling/ experience you could get away with 5 (very different) datasets to create you’re predictions but that’s still gonna cost more than you have to spend, (like hundreds of thousands/ year). Also in terms of that 60% right number the above will mayyyybe get you a 10bps edge daily, longer term/ frequencies of course have bigger returns but ofc also the farther out the harder to predict (with skill)! Mkt data itself, even if fully tapped out wrt realizing potential predictive power, just isn’t going to be enough. Maybe you could tell me more about your data/ process for me to understand what’s going on. Terms you need to look up there are breadth, IC, and IR. What your describing sounds like clairvoyancy or just memorizing the data/ having undisciplined process.

TLDR;

Now is the endeavor completely useless? No, it’s a learning experience and will have you run head on into understanding various terms, phenomena, and methods wrt managing a portfolio that will help you figure out what you want to do well before other folks of your age have. You mentioned a lot of data/ quant/other things. I’d recommend Grinold and Kahn’s Active Portfolio Management as a place to start/ get some theoretical underpinnings. You’ll need to know linear algebra (most 17 yo don’t) at a working level as well as some stats/ math that a 17yo has probably started to run into (basic stats and probability). Maybe you’re starting to see the picture here, becoming a quant, designing and implementing robust statistical insights/ optimizations/ modeling and more is something that takes a lot more training to do competently in any sense. Good luck on your journey.

Side note someone mentioned TA and mean reversion don’t really have alpha, my two cents: traditional TA, nope, none. Most optimal learning / policy/ whatever you do for alpha combination quickly shoots TA alpha weights to zero in my experience. “Mean reversion” - literally the simple stuff techniques, not much, but like mean reversion as a principle/ for signals/ features is fine/ used all the time, whether it works or not is just dependent on the data itself, ie maybe using analyst estimates data with some reversion principles does show mean reversion tendencies, or option implied vol metrics might etc etc. But yeah like simple historical price MACD stuff, not so much

 

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