TLDR: is Point72 academy a good program?
So much discussion here…can we just have one thread designed for it? I’m a junior doing banking this summer but potentially want to re recruit FT for l/s. Is this a program worth considering? In my personal experience, I know a lot of kids from my school who would not dream of landing a good bank but somehow got this job so…not sure what to think?
Just go to LinkedIn, you will get an idea of the quality of talent in this years class and the last. Some very bright and clearly sharp, others not so much. Careers are long, so don’t be too worried where you start.
No. The criticism is justified. Much better to go to a top bank and recruit for pods after 1yr/2yrs.
Wouldn’t applicants still be expected to apply to the experienced academy program? Or is there a way to skip that given 2 years of IB experience?
Pretty sure the experienced academy is for people outside finance. IB go straight to the pods.
I've worked with a few analysts from the academy and thought they were all super sharp.
Sharp people but horrible program
You talk like someone who got rejected or never got a return. Giving 100% definitive take on a nuanced questions says enough about your credibility.
Take it from someone who interned there, got the return and turned it down for a different offer, and is now at a large SM. The program is absolutely horrible. An academy coach belittles people regularly and forces people into a flawed way of thinking. I can think of multiple instances during my internship where a student had the right idea, was mocked/made to look stupid by them, and eventually their idea was proven right. Just all in all a very political, stressful environment with subpar training and extremely poor pod placement. Student quality is also on the decline, and I would urge students to take banking, PE, even consulting over the academy if you have the option. Sure there are a few great outcomes from the academy 8 years ago, but outcome quality has gone down the drain in the last few years.
I feel like I know who you are lmao
absolutely brilliant work with that goofy ahh Coatue deck
^ Posted on the other thread on something similar too:
"Those who can't, teach"
LOL her and Jaimi are an absolute riot - I have no clue how analysts actually make money if they do their models and pitches the way they were taught.
Hell, one ironic fact is that it's quite well known that the Summer Academy (and to a extent the full-time Academy) pitches are a negative indicator of what's to happen. Either 90% or 100% of the pitches backfired iirc.
And let's not get into the weeds of how they expect you to do retardly granular builds with absolutely no data - yes you have jack shit except BBG and some other financial databases but you aren't supposed to pull data from there and you have to hard code in your numbers every single time.
Sidetracking for a rant on that, but it's really even more retarded than it sounds... if this isn't missing the forest for the trees, I don't know what is. Firstly, for juniors I fully understand the need to get in your reps and know how to find the data and so on and so forth. But with the little amount of time you even have to do a pitch (~1 week), building enough conviction, understanding the business, understanding the competitors, understanding the narrative, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HAVING A VARIANT VIEW should be the focus - and a good pitch is not easy when you need to build a damn 3FS linked model with all kinds of fuck shit granular price x volume drivers! Hell some analysts I know can't even put together a quality pitch from scratch on a week - proper ramping does not take so little time when one starts off.
Back to the thing: No data is fucking braindead given how many analysts and juniors spend time running regressions on data to see what is a leading indicator of how things would be like. Fuck's sake.
The Academy paints you a very rosy picture, but the actual curriculum, program and people just shits on you. Look at the Academy Coaches and IPD people that left. For the ones that stayed, I don't have much good things to say about those at the top aside from the fact that some full-timers I know also wouldn't give them the time of the day due to how out of touch and locked into the "Academy classroom" setting.
I'm of course salty because it was nothing like what I expected going in - and I prepared a whole year and grinded hard the entire internship for it too. I definitely have my downsides, I recognise that - but when you and other people in your batch are hit with "there's no headcount/PMs aren't hiring/looking for juniors" and impressing management is your way to get a return offer - it's setting you up for failure.
Some of the pitches lauded for creativity and freshness and whatever are some of the dumbest most braindead shit I have ever seen. The logical fallacies involved and the sheer mental gymnastics one has to do have a "variant view” built off those numbers will make IB MDs who haven't closed a deal in years and willing to put whatever bs projections to save the valuation of a shit company to shame.
I don't think it's a shit program by any means, don't get me wrong. P72 is a top brand name and it helped open doors for a lot of people (me included), but it's no way as great as people make it out to be - and in particular the heads of the Academy are frustratingly bad. In an industry with turnover higher than Steve Cohen's hairline, Academy staff not being revamped with new blood or new ideas don't mean it's good or irreplaceable - they are just too stuck in their ideals and are outdated. (And they aren't very open-minded which is strange given how most of the better performing ones I know tend to be...)
Okay just wrapping this up - and FYI not being a salty [mod removed violation] either - I did have an opportunity to pursue L/S at one of the big 4s but passed on as I enjoyed my current role. Of all the internships I did, it's not the worst, but in terms of expectations from a "big-boy" internship and all they preached to teach you, it's been an utter letdown. Had more insights from a 30 mins coffee chat with a PM than from all the lessons added together.
I had a positive experience with most of the Academy but it's not for most people who think it's for them. Risking oversimplification, but I'd compare it to attending Caltech where you're levering up on a specific type of career.
Yup, compare it to Caltech except the professors dropped out of their phd programs and there is a “no-nepotism” nepotism policy lol. The nepo cases I hear at P72 are wild
What nepo cases have you heard of?
Enthusiastically bounce on one of the coaches at every word she says and you’ll be fine. If you have troubles bouncing high enough, I recommend buying a 2-liter bottle of lube from the CVS down by Penn Station and expensing it as part of your daily dinner stipend (some lubes are edible). The structural risk of anal prolapse should be thankfully covered under the firm’s health insurance policy. Choose the low-deductible option. Good luck soldier. May I see your red ass roaming the wheatfields in Valhalla.
Dude, what the actual F
gave you silver banana btw
It’s not brilliant but banking/PE has been producing some retards lately
del
I don’t work at Point72, but our pod looks at juniors from our graduate program first (helps that we don’t have to pay them).
Anecdotally the few people I’ve interviewed have been better from those than out of ER/IB. Not sure about P72’s specific deal but I don’t know how PowerPoint Olympics is going to make a good stock jockey
Which firm?
MLP
ngl, the “best performing” interns in the summer academy rn can be thought of as the Monica Lewinskys of our generation
What this mean
they will be going back to school with a severe case of strepthroat
Anyone have any positives to share? Heard a lot of negatives alr.
they got listerine in the restroom, helpful for removing the DNA evidence
How would you compare the Academy to MLP equities analyst program or CAP?
Curious as well. Heard relatively positive and improving things about the Citadel Associate Program and Millennium Equities Analyst Program.
It would be great if people could provide some updated information about those MM HF programs. No matter if it's equity, macro, or commodities, etc.
Both of those programs are just equities…
Former academy that happily moved on, others can comment with more recent data on placements. It's obviously a great job from a skillset, pedigree, and upside case perspective.
But would bear in mind that this kind of program self-selects for some of the weirdest, most neurotic, and competitive kids out there. Anxiety is constantly in the air and it manifests through competing against each other and sucking up to whoever determines your placements.
Most of my other co-workers in finance have been a little basic / bro-y, but generally kind good people who are fun to grab a beer with. Don't underestimate the value of liking the people you have to sit with all day.
Totalmente de acuerdo —este tema merece su propio hilo con info concreta, porque hay mucha confusión y opiniones mezcladas.
Sobre tu duda: si estás considerando volver a tiempo completo, sí vale la pena al menos explorar este programa, especialmente si ya tienes algo de experiencia previa. Muchos programas están evolucionando y buscando diversidad de perfiles, no solo los típicos CVs perfectos.
buddy, you pasted your spanish homework in the wrong box.
@ICE
They do love to belittle people publicly and for no good reason… some of the stuff they say will be shocking to a lot of people, as in it resembles adolescent-tier bullying. I think their reputation here is honestly justified
What are some things they say?
Won’t go into specifics but words that would make your stomach jump
Just adding my two cents here. At a campus info session it was pretty clear the “coach” had a chauvinistic attitude. Then I checked LinkedIn for their background and realized she never even was a PM. Huh.
Lmao I’m living for this Academy slander
Did the internship a while back, non NYC office. I ended up singing with MLP/CAP for full time but yeah definitely experienced some of the pettiness.
There’s also a very big ego thing in the Academy. The coaches actively look down on CAP and the MLP program which rubbed me the wrong way, overly dismissive of anything that wasn’t Academy. With that tho, every analyst I spoke to that did the academy said the training was very good, but they would’ve been doing it through 2018-2021.
Honestly I think it started out well - and really led the Street and was really pioneering for quite some time. But the people at the top couldn't evolve or grow with the times. Very defensive mindset and an "us against them" kind of mentality - which is perfectly fine given the industry - BUT not doing anything about it except being defensive and bitchy.
Instead of thinking about improving the relevance and actual skills taught, they threw a hissy fit when some staff left for CAP. LOL
Ironic given SC's motto of always making changes, even when you're up
I will comment that the coaches have absolutely no shame in showing favoritism. It is actually horrifyingly scary. If they like you, they will give you high marks on every pitch no matter what. If they don’t like you, you will never get a good score.
It is like that unfortunately. To the point where it feels like a cruel joke, as others have noted here.
h
Can you share examples of
.
Just horrible career r/r, I don't know why anyone signs up.
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