Banking is great... but is it that great?
Hi all, second-time poster here. I recently asked a question in the consulting forum, but seeing how this is a 99% IB biased website lol, I decided to post my questions here.
I'm a sophomore STEM major who wants to get a good job lol. But I'm not so computer sciency/tech-inclined and I don't want to go hate my life for two years (call me soft if you will). Like everyone else, I've been thinking between IB and MBB. While I recognize both are great jobs that the next person would kill to get, I have to pick the minds of the chimps on this forum.
Besides pay, prestige -- and if you are not the type of person who went to a prep school and played D2 sports and have family members in high finance-- why would anyone put themselves through the IB experience?
Just for the sake of the argument, let's take MBB as a comparison, though there are tons of fantastic jobs out there. It has somewhat sustainable WLB, above-average pay(no elitism), solid training for a solid skillset(unless you're actually a finance fanatic and want to go into PE), cool exit opps. legitimate client exposure -- and you are treated more as a human being rather than a resource!
Thoughts? Hit me with your strongest opinions and don't hesitate to cut me deep. I just want to see what goes into the thought processes of people who decided to embark on such a journey.
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kinda biased but okay. it may sound better, but from what I know, you're definitely not doing anything else besides make PPTs on that merger. Now, if you're working hands on with management with Nvidia on how to boost efficiency, that sounds just as, if not more cool.
Who do you think are you going to be speaking with to do due diligence and make the PowerPoint? and it's not just a ppt that you'll be working on.
This is incredibly misleading as I could turn around and ask you, what sounds better?
Both industries have their big ticket projects and run of the mill crap ones everyone has to do.
Fellow STEM guy here. During my time in undergrad it became pretty clear that following the academic/grad school path was not for me. Found there was a very real difference between the guys who are actually good at STEM and pretenders like me. That being said, I’ve always been interested and kept up with financial markets and businesses, and it seemed like a good place to go post degree. Not sure if I want to be a banker for the rest of my life, but a 2 year analyst program at a solid bank will open a ton of doors. A lot of guys are set on PE or a buy side opportunity, which is definitely an option for a lot of analysts. I’m not quite sure where I want to go after a 2 year stint, but I’m excited to get to work and learn as much about my industry and the businesses as I can. At the end of the day a lot of people, myself included, choose to go into banking for the doors that are opened. Exit opps into Corp Dev, PE, HF and other finance positions are plentiful, and you can always get an MBA after your two years and lateral into another industry as well. IB is often the best way to learn about businesses and grow your network, which is important when starting a career. The comp is also a nice piece of the puzzle, but it’s more about IB being a jump pad instead of getting rich in 2 years. After tax and COL, you’re honestly not getting paid a ton till you’re an associate anyways. Best of luck!
This. So many people sell out for short term gains when the long term is where the money is going to be. Granted getting into in bank/consulting will set you up pretty well for the long term gains.
If you don't want to do PE or hedge funds (i.e., a buyside role), do consulting. The skill set you get there will be more broadly aligned with general business roles (Corp dev, product management, etc.). If you want to do PE or hedge funds, IB provides a boot camp experience that will give you the foundation and path to succeed in these roles.
If you don't know what you want, do IB because you can always land a corp dev role from an analyst seat, whereas I've heard its not always as easy coming from consulting. That being said, if you don't think you can handle the hours for 2 years, don't put yourself through it, simple as that.
I disagree with the above. If entrepreneurship is in your cards down the line, do IB and make sure you're doing it in a field that you intend on starting your business in down the line.
After all the cap raises I did from debt to equity, down to the sell-side auctions to placing a buy-side bid on a small roll-up, all that stuff is extremely extremely invaluable if you were actually a part of the process.
I can only speak to my experience which is primarily large cap, public company M&A, but the skillset I've gotten from IB would be absolutely worthless for a start up. I've gotten really good at taking a management plan and running a valuation on it, at understanding the drivers of valuation for public companies, picked up some tactical skills around auctions and bidding strategy.
But tell me, and I am genuinely curious, how is any any of going to help me in a start up? I haven't learned how to optimize a business operationally (i.e., more deeply than thinking about capital structure and business mix), I haven't spent a minute thinking about product development or market sizing. I just don't see it, maybe I'm missing out on something other analysts are getting?
Perhaps i'm not thinkign about it from a general analyst perspective. In my group, we had just started a dif industry niche and I essentially acted as VP while being an analyst and had one other analyst under me with one MD above.
TLDR: you need to not get caught up in the weeds. The valuable stuff for entrepreneurship is at the VP level. They learn the ins and outs of quarterbacking a deal and down the line when you engage a sell-side auction like I've done once now, it's a breeze and i'm not flustered by MM banks telling me what to do and when. I know the process and I know when they're shitting me.
I’m not sure why this comparison is always being made. In banking you work a bit more than consulting and don’t get to travel as much (not relevant due to covid), but you get paid more. In consulting you get to travel, get paid less, and probably work a little less. In one role you’re a premium temp that makes pretty presentations with obvious conclusions that someone in the client’s product development or corporate finance team has known and been pushing for for a year, but the C suite and board need to cover their ass so they hire you to pitch this solution. In the other role you do useless analysis on transactions which were probably decided on with some napkin math at a board meeting, but you need to differentiate yourselves somehow to get a fee so you present your analysis and pitch as a formality, so that way when the CFO goes with Goldman because his old fraternity brother is the MD on the pitch, it at least looks like a legitimate process.
Pick your poison. Pick what you’re interested in. If it’s finance do banking, if it’s not then do consulting.
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If you think there is no elitism in MBB than you are going to be in for a shock. If anything, they are far more picky about uni, class than any IB.
Not in some of the recent classes...
I've done both. What you have to separate is the:
* on-paper trade-offs between each (which are very well known at this point, though I'll summarize them again)
* and the more important question, which is your personality type and your interests.
Banking and consulting recruit at the same places, but attract different personality types/working styles, and this is true both for those who just want the stamp on their resume then gtfo, as well as those who drink the Koolaid and stick around for a while.
Tradeoffs:
Money: IB wins at every stage of the game (it's not even close) except for Partner/MD, where consulting finally catches up.
Hours: IB usually works more sheer number of hours, but there's plenty of down time. Consulting hours are actual work the whole time. I say usually because consulting varies a lot more by office, client/industry, project type, etc.
Culture: different strokes for different folks. In my experience, the average banker is much more of an asshole/douche than the average consultant, but the standard deviation is much lower. The average consultant, conversely, is much friendlier and easier to get along with, but the douchebags in consulting are orders of magnitude shittier than the average banking douche.
Skills: there is one core difference: banking clearly gives you a skill (financial modeling), whereas in consulting, it is the act of being hired (acing the case interviews) that signals your talent. Otherwise, both give you solid exposure to Excel, Powerpoint, working through email, and managing stakeholders. The way you use these tools will differ. In banking, you use Excel primarily for financial statement modeling. Some banks use templates; this hinders your skill acquisition. In others, you become adept at building three-statement models that flow through, from scratch. This is valuable. Consulting will have you build models if you work on a DD, but otherwise, consulting Excel is much more about putting together ad hoc analyses, and/or wrapping messy corporate data neatly into a bow (lots of index(match), sumifs, etc).
Outside finance, this is the more valuable skill to have, but within finance, consultants always have to play catchup to bankers for buyside recruiting. The divergence is wider for the other tools. In consulting, you cannot express a thought without putting it in a slide. Tree that fell but no one heard; work was done but no slide was made. Slides are basically the proof that work has been done. To be clear - consulting is meeting-heavy, and in meetings, you go over slides: if you cannot, on a daily basis, pump out slides that reflect the client's priorities, you will struggle. In banking, email takes precedence over meetings. The art form of writing crisp and soulless emails that deflect work onto the mid/back office and make them work for you is vastly underrrated in banking. As a junior in banking, your stakeholders are internal (your stressed out VP, your stressed out MD, the all-important support staff like EAs, the people in the print room, etc) whereas in consulting, it's client-driven from day one (constant client exposure, and senior consultants care what the clients have to say about you - they're the ones who get yelled at if a client dislikes you), but if your firm has a team that makes slides look pretty for you, you definitely want them on your side.
Your own personality:
Your interests: if you're naturally attracted to markets, or to deals, or to debt/equity ratios, then you're going to enjoy IBD more. Plenty of consultants go through their 2-year stints without ever touching these topics. If you're more interested in how the pie is made rather than how it's sliced, consulting is probably going to satisfy you more. Or in other words, if your interest is how to grow EBITDA, choose consulting. If your interest is what to do with EBITDA, choose banking.
Long term or short term: if you're absolutely sure you just want to fatten the bank account quickly and get out ASAP, IBD is the better bet. For one, you're paid more. And the expected value is higher: to get paid, you just need to work at one of the dozen or so BB+EB firms out there. Once in, it's hard to fuck up, so just get the seat. Even if the total number of seats recruited for at your school is the same across both industries, in IBD they're divided across those dozen firms, and all you need is one offer, to get that prestigious stamp on your resume. That's 12 chances to meet people and get them to like you. Tons of seats at MBB, but you only get three attempts to seduce an organization.
That said, if you want to gtfo of IBD because you hate finance itself, then you're better served from consulting. From IBD, your main skillset will be financial monkeywork, and so will your exit. From consulting, you can bullshit your way through more functions/industries. For the long-term, banking is the better bet. While it is true that at the senior levels, consulting has caught up in pay, it just so happens that in banking, as you get more senior, your hours improve. In consulting, they actually get worse. You'll spend more time at home as a banking MD than a consulting partner. That said, if you hate your spouse/family, then by all means, be a consulting partner.
Process vs problem-solving: this one is a big deal, because it's about the way of working. At its very core, investment banking is about running a process. The process may be more or less stressful at varying stages, and sometimes might even require actual skill, but it's still just a process. Some folks thrive at this, others would rather drink formaldehyde. Consulting has processes too, but you're more likely designing them (hint: you don't implement much in consulting). Usually, shit lands on your desk, for which there isn't an immediately obvious answer. Figure it out. You might get a pat on the back for it, or get yelled at, but you have to deal w/these curveballs on a daily basis.
Money or making shit look pretty: what matters to you? In both jobs, there will be moments where you wonder why the hell you're wasting away your youth to put up with this nonsense. Trust me, both professions place you in absurd situations (you take a step back and realize it's a circus). In banking, the answer (to why you're tolerating this crap) is money. In consulting, it's because you've convinced yourself that you provide clients your brainpower, and brainpower can only be expressed through pretty slides; making the slides pretty means you're adding value. There isn't a right answer, because the way you price your own happiness isn't universal. But it helps if you know which one works better for you.
My $0.02:
Might be one of the least biased posts on this topic I've seen.
What do you do now? Very much in that “life’s too short” mindset and wondering what’s possible outside of client advisory and even maybe M&A after a few years in banking as an analyst.
Senior BD role at a mid-late stage VC-backed startup. The role had some matrix responsibility into Product and Marketing; quickly got deep into leading an aspect of product that had massive revenue implications.
Senior BD at a startup could be feasible for a guy like you, coming from IB. You'd have to comfortable with the shitshow nature of the whole ecosystem, but I personally find it way more dynamic.
I was a Manager level consultant before becoming a banker (now a VP in banking) and I really can't add much more to what you've already said besides validating it. I just have yet to do anything else / make my exit.
That seems to be the path less taken..
Did you go from consulting manager to IB associate, or were you able to pull off a lateral directly to VP?
This is a god-tier comment for those on the fence between the two industries. Thank you so much.
You're welcome. Which side of the fence did it push you?
I honestly don't know why, I would not do it again if I could
what do you mean?
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