For the fortunate few who at the firm, where should I aim my sights? Trying to get some advice on where to shoot.
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In no particular order: Healthcare, Power, M&A, Industrials, FIG
M&A
M&A
This is as honest as it gets. I used to work for RBC before lateraling to another firm
If you don’t have a preference in an industry: M&A. Look, it’s the best group at RBC for generalist PE exits for sure but it can’t compete with MS, Citi, CS, BAML’s M&A groups. Deal sizes are just smaller on average than them. Better than most of the UBS and DB groups, but just don’t expect to be always working on large deals like the above BB mentioned.
If you do have a preference in Power, Utilities, Infra, then choose PU&I. Believe it or not, it’s actually one of the best PU&I groups on the street. Deal flow is insane and you will get worked.
If you have a preference in FIG, choose FIG. Nothing like Goldman FIG, but it is one of the top FIG groups due to the old DB rainmakers coming over 3-4 years ago.
Real Estate is actually solid as well thanks to the Brookfield relationship. Would say it competes well with any other BB in this area as well.
All other industry groups are ehh. Sure, they’re good but nothing to write about. Competes with lower BB and then UMM players like Jefferies, but honestly can’t say that they are anywhere near the Top/Mid tier BBs in other industry groups.
Basically, PU&I, FIG, and Real Estate can compete w anyone in their own niches. M&A is the “best” just because of the nautral technical experience and PE exits but its not comparable to the top/mid BBs. The other industry groups are comparable to DB, UBS, and sometimes Jefferies.
what about the groups for RBC in EMEA?
Thoughts on Tech and CME?
Tech - Lost one of the top rainmakers Michal Katz last summer (former co-head of the group who came from Lehman). She was actually one of the top female bankers on the street but she left to start the IB franchise at Mizuho. Was a big loss. The group is still good but like I said, it’s not outstanding or anything enough to choose over the normal BBs
CME in NYC has hands down the best culture there. Hours are pretty easy going as well from what I remember, and the male to female ratio is almost 50/50. Nothing else to note. It’s just another industry group that’s a step below the BBs but clearly ahead of the MMs.
But if you’re interested in Media and Entertainment specifically, you should ask for a transfer to the new LA office. Extremely lean and small office, but a legendary rainmaker leads the team there. Kent Savagian is a former DLJ/CS/Moelis guy (used to head CS LA which back in the day was basically GS of the west coast). Don’t know much about the culture or anything because the LA office does its own thing but if you want more of an EB feel working for a top notch banker, go there
I've heard industrials is really good as well. Any thoughts?
Honestly, not sure where Industrials is getting all the hype from. Maybe it’s because of Rosenbaum? It’s not a top group at RBC by any means. Co-head left for Jefferies and took some ppl with him. I mean it’s good, but PU&I and FIG are wayyyyy better if you want industry groups
What do hours look like in M&A vs other top groups at the bank?
Worst hours at the bank. P&U is up there w M&A as well for the hours. But the M&A guys are working almost every single weekend because the No Saturday policy doesn’t apply to them since they work on live deals, not pitches
RBC P&U group is very strong and arguably top 1 or 2 in the bank. Arguably top 5 on the street. Competes with tier 1 banks on mandates
There’s 2 rainmakers that generate most of the deal flow, one in NY and one in Houston (Apparently this guy is the co-head and BSD of the group) There’s a infra MD that’s good but is mediocre compared to rest of the street
They added a co-head in NY from MS P&U but hear he’s the lowest performer in the group
Very VP heavy with few being super duchy and hard to work with
Most of the associates in the group are clueless and take a back seat to the analyst, they’re few who are really good that get most of the live deal work
Pros:
MDs and Ds are very down to earth and approachable
As an analyst you gain very good technical skill set since modeling is done within the group
Good exit ops to infra funds
Very good deal flow and most of the juniors work on live deals
Cons:
Hours in this group are the worse in the bank given deal flow
If you get staffed with a bad associate, you’re both analyst and associate (Can be a good thing sometimes)
Understaffed with analyst given most leave for infra funds
If you’re an analyst or intern considering group placement, go to this group get a deal under your belt from one of the rainmakers and go recruit.
Thoughts on lev fin?
In terms of banking fees, Lev Fin is actually a top group at RBC because of the large balance sheet used for sponsor backed deals. The only reason I didn’t mention the group is because they do not handle the LBO modeling. In a sponsor deal, M&A handles the operating model and the LBO model while Lev Fin only really does the cap table and provides some assumptions based on the market. They obviously also handle the internal committee presentation and stuff but the real modeling experience is outsourced to M&A. Lev Fin is where the money is, but you’ll have a hard time exiting to regular PE firms. But, if you are into Credit funds, you shouldn’t have a problem exiting to those.
So Lev Fin itself doesn't work on any LBOs or even op models? If that's the case it seems like M&A does all of the modelling for everyone aside from PU&I and FIG, even other product groups?
Is there any particular reason why lev fin doesn't handle the modeling itself? It is a product group as well so I am curious why it's not done in house
That's strange bc when I interviewed for the LevFin group I had an LBO model test. Are you talking about the LevFin cap markets team?
Try again
Have heard their compliance team is second to none
GS Compliance > RBC Compliance
Used to work at RBC. If M&A is involved in the deal, M&A always holds the model (unless its for FIG and sometimes PU&I). Agree with one of the other posters that PU&I and FIG are groups that are legitmately near the top of the street. Every other group generally competes upper MM / lower BB range.
M&A would probably provide the best experience, just because it's M&A and you get the technical modeling experience and the deal flow, but the work is also a lot heavier and also competes in the same range as the rest of the bank.
Both tech and CME are relatively chill. Part of the reason is just because of how many analysts there are, but the thing to remember about coverage teams, especially at RBC, is that you'll be doing a lot of capital markets stuff (both equity and debt). These are generally lighter workloads vs. M&A deals.
Industrials is good, but competes in the same range as the rest of the bank ex. PU&I and FIG. Lots of upper hundred millions, lower billion deals. One interesting thing is that you're split into specific industrials verticals pretty early on so it could be a good thing or bad thing depending on how well you like the MDs / deal teams. One thing about Rosenbaum is that he predominantly focuses on building products, and from what I understand, is a top MD in that space. With that said, building products is pretty niche and the gross size of that space isn't that large.
Would try to avoid Consumer LOL
Overall, growing bank that competes in the upper MM / lower BB space. Shafted the associates last bonus cycle though.
Why did the associates get shafted?
Not exactly sure why, which made it especially shocking. Probably to prepare for an economic downturn (which ended up proving accurate in hindsight). Analyst bonuses (paid out in July) last cycle were solid though; not quite as good as EBs like PJT or Evercore but solidly above a lot of BBs out there.
Could you please add a bit more colour on their consumer & retail group? Thank you!
Similar experience as above, used to work at RBC before lateraling to another bank.
PU&I great team, good experience with MM PE sponsors lots of ex BB leadership in that group and lots of M&A activity. RE likewise very solid, the EX Head of IB (Doug) has a RE background so he often gave that group alot of support internally, even had their own templates for powerpoint.
Rest is very subpar and not up to BB standard. Bonuses were crap last year across S&T and IB for associates and above but more a product of fee pools issue across the street and huge issues in IT&S.
May i ask why you switched banks? Was it mostly for better exit ops?
Bunch of reasons but in no particular order
Team was having 2nd year of weak dealflow so I felt I wasn't growing anymore
I didn't want to rely on the balance sheet to win mandates, sometimes felt like alot of the work I was doing was meaningless and purely executional without much thought
My particular coverage area within the group didn't make good hiring decisions and so it felt like upward mobility was limited while at the same time the people we hired were not very competent
M&A has best traditional exit opps, RE & FIG are also very strong but naturally niche. LevFin, CME, Tech, and PU&I are good too.
Between lev fin, tech, and m&a, can someone please comment on the modelling experience, exit ops, and general culture between the three? I'm focused on either going A2A if possible or making a buy side exit. Also any color on return offer rates across those groups would be helpful too.
bump
modelling experience m&a>lev fin>tech. tech/cme probably has the best culture. tech is mostly buysides, so you're really providing financing as your USP. CME has the comms infra vertical, which is the only vertical that regularly does sellsides, but modelling is all handled by m&a. the media vertical does mostly buysides, but they do modelling in-house. I think for exit opps, M&A is the best. I can't comment on lev fin, but the other verticals are basically as noted by the earlier poster - better than pure MM banks, worse than solid BB banks.
Is there any reason why M&A handles modelling for all of the groups including other product groups?
If you could pick one of those three groups to join right now with how the economy is looking which would it be.
Forget RBC, Go to BMO. Large bonuses with excellent culture.
Bump
What about the municipal finance group?
What’s CME in UK like?
If you really care about best group at RBC you should probably also look into lateraling to a better bank, bc that'll likely make a bigger difference
RBC P&U group is very strong and arguably top 1 or 2 in the bank. Arguably top 5 on the street. Competes with tier 1 banks on mandates
There’s 2 rainmakers that generate most of the deal flow, one in NY and one in Houston (Apparently this guy is the co-head and BSD of the group) There’s a infra MD that’s good but is mediocre compared to rest of the street
They added a co-head in NY from MS P&U but hear he’s the lowest performer in the group
Very VP heavy with few being super duchy and hard to work with
Most of the associates in the group are clueless and take a back seat to the analyst, they’re few who are really good that get most of the live deal work
Pros:
MDs and Ds are very down to earth and approachable
As an analyst you gain very good technical skill set since modeling is done within the group
Good exit ops to infra funds
Very good deal flow and most of the juniors work on live deals
Cons:
Hours in this group are the worse in the bank given deal flow
If you get staffed with a bad associate, you’re both analyst and associate (Can be a good thing sometimes)
Understaffed with analyst given most leave for infra funds
If you’re an analyst or intern considering group placement, go to this group get a deal under your belt from one of the rainmakers and go recruit.
Is it possible to exit from PU&I into a non-infra fund? Can they got to regular PE?
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