Disappointed and heartbroken
Target school, 3.5+ GPA, relevant experience (really good SA gig at an IB firm) but still unemployed for FT. I missed out. Im not owed anything by anyone but this fucking sucks. I feel like I let everyone down.
I emailed alumni and cold emailed on linkedin (wasn't too successful-even had others skim my emails), Had first years help me on my resume, Started early (Mid August), mock interviews, sending thank you notes, etc.
Many phone calls, interviews, and even superdays later, I'm still jobless. It sucks because I know I'm qualified and also smarter than most candidates. I don't regret not putting in more work either-I've tried very very hard.
I know the whole shtick..there aren't enough spots for everyone that wants a spot, maybe I'm interviewing poorly, maybe I lack the intangibles. Can someone give some tangible advice-I feel dead inside? Everyone who worked hard for your positions, I wish I was in your spot.
Stay strong my dude. Its easy to feel alone especially when in a target environment w/ friends getting offers left and right, there's another cycle next semester, you'll get something. No JP or GS, but something, and I'd be super grateful even for that. In a very similar boat.
Seriously, grow a sack of nuts. You have hundreds, if not thousands of alumni to ask for advice. Start cold-emailing and drop the defeated yet fragile ivy ego. Who gives a shit about someone else getting an offer. Going to a boutique is hardly a death sentence considering you have the ivy pedigree.
Imagine going to a non-target where you have literally zero alumni and no access to a major finance hub. Not to mention a completely inept career services who sends monster.com like job postings and only has resume drops for b4 accounting at best and the rest are some shitty financial advising program, insurance, etc.
I'd be at the career services every single day until I got an interview if I were you guys. What do you have to lose?
too real, Bill.
Fucking exactly. Seeing posts like his piss me off. I’m at a non target and had to bust my ass to even land a boutique offer and he’s complaining?! With the resources he has?! Loooool. Grow up dude. You’re at a target—you can legit get into any field you want with minimal effort. I know some idiot at Stanford who landed at MS Menlo Park solely because the group thought he was a chiller.
Toonsquad, unfortunately you did let many people down. However, you are definitely smarter than most of the other candidates. I heard BB banks were only looking for idiots during this most recent recruiting cycle. Best of luck in dumbing yourself down enough to become competitive for a full time offer.
Hey man, if it makes you feel better I'm in a similar boat to you. You can only feel sorry for yourself for a few days, and then it becomes "Do I shift gears and now start heavily recruiting for boutiques, or do I just give up and try for something else?". I guess everyone's answer to that question will be different
Keep at it, and get rid of the "I'm smarter than everyone else" attitude. As far as I can understand, you did get a SA gig but no return offer? Unless that was the case due to circumstances beyond your control (ex. the firm simply not hiring) that should've raised a red flag right there. It's possible recruiters thought the same, especially seeing as how FT recruiting is more competitive.
Your options include directly going for a masters degree (preferable if you're in Europe), or working in a related field for a couple of years and shooting for a top 10 MBA. Meanwhile, keep practicing and hustling. You only fail once you give up.
This is what happens when you have a fucking complete prestige whore fuckfest culture on the site and at ivies. I've literally heard someone call University of Chicago a non-target. I mean do you realize how many people at ivies don't even get offers or interviews to begin with? Don't believe me? Look at the threads on wso. Everyone is only seeking the EBs, BBs, and top MM shops even if they're flat out unqualified (shit experience, non-target, bad grades, etc.) and/or not well-connected. Then when you go on their profiles they stop posting after recruiting cycles are over and their BB IBD dream they thought would be handed to them is over.
Why not go for credit risk, corp dev, fldps with cool rotations, etc.? Or is it because it's beneath you and your top smarts?
Seriously, there are other ways to make 100k+ in a short period of time (2 years or less).
And August isn't early to start looking at ft. You should have started that in January to hedge your bets for the very possible chance of no return offer.
As far as advice, I'd start hitting up firms that can lateral you to ib later down the road. Feel free to pm for some names (hardos: this isn't an open invite) and I can send some over. Boutiques, valuation shops, MO roles that are legit (JPM/GS risk), fldps with corp dev, etc.
Sorry for the angry tone but I am sick and tired of hearing people expecting an elite job. You can network, go to a top school, get a bb internship, cool ECs, etc. and still end up empty-handed.
Toonsquad, I mean this with all due respect, but judging from your experience, it seems like you're coming across as someone difficult to work with and/or unlikable. I say this because you failed to get a return offer, had no real success in networking, and despite having first years look at your resume, seemingly had no one really go to bat for you come FT recruiting. It seems like you have all the pieces of the puzzle (target, good GPA, IB SA), but are missing the final one: personality. I could be misreading, so don't get offended if I am.
You should have done this months ago, but you need to figure out why you did not get that return offer. Then, you need to figure out what went wrong during recruiting. Failure to fix both of these issues will result in a continued failure to break into IB. Next, hit up some alumni who were receptive to you to see if their banks are still looking and start the process of reaching out to boutiques. You might have to spend a year at a boutique before lateraling, but the IB dream is far from over. Good luck.
I agree with all that you said, but notwithstanding; if this kid says he's smarter than everyone, i wouldn't even phone screen this kid based on that alone.
i don't have any empathy for situations like this. if you truly were "smarter" than everyone else, you should have already learned from your mistakes and secured a FT offer. The saying goes you know what you know and you don't know what you don't know. time to pick up those imaginary big sack of balls and cold call. a few months at comcast call center may very well be the best learning experience op will ever receive.
humble the fuck up - you are not better than anyone. this is truly amazing to me to have this kind of entitlement
He needs some milk
I've had a very unconventional route into finance and, no joke, here is my route:
semi target undergrad>>pro sport (very shitty low level)>> rapper/songwriter for pop artists trying to suck enough dick to make it in the industry>>>Needing money to do my own project plus wanting to get a skill set that can apply to as many opps as possible so i can actually make money in case fail which odds are I will>> fake my way into analyst recruiting even though i was 4 years removed from school>>>35 interviews used to incrementally improve at interviewing till i got pretty good but ultimately told to fuck off>> 36th offer got into no-name boutique but (despite being desperate and getting threats from my GF that she'd never go down on me again until I got a job) turned it down to get branding best I could>>37th interview: offer into mid-market shit part of an otherwise major bank>> offer to lateral to one of top teams in industry (think CV M&A or GS TMT)>> turned offer down to pursue top buyside interview processes I was deep in because i felt like too much of a dick to just accept lateral offer and leave the new bank after 8 months(broke up with my GF and stepped up the slay game)>>> didn't get buyside MF>> back to lateral recruiting to up my branding>>> got offer and am now on one of top teams in the game as a tier one analyst >> got enough dough to finish major music project I'd wanted to do this whole time...
I can tell you the one constant throughout all this shit: Getting the skill set so fucking good that any team would feel I'm a major asset. "Ask not what your bank can do for you but what you can do for your mothafucking bank." - John F. Kennedy (F is for fuckyoumoney)
The truth is that deep down a huge majority of folks trying to get their first jobs are defining success by the brand and, despite the obvious logic behind that, overlooking the emphasis on one's own self-improvement. The information you need is on the internet (BIWS, 10-Ks, articles, interviews, etc.) and if you missed out on the main train but are committed to doing this then you can fucking get in the game one way or another.Your goal should be to bring the best advice for any clients you can, truly solving problems and thus creating value in the world. Yes of course, the best way to accelerate your growth is to learn in a developmental program and from top practitioners. But if you're 85 years old sitting in a hovering old home with some high tech VC backed catheter, and you look back and realize you fell behind by a year or two because you started at an off-brand shop (where you probably get more exposure to the actual dealmaking) before going to the big time, are you really going to think the trajectory of your life was all that fucking different than you're hoping now? Sure, be upset that you missed out and be motivated, but man the fuck up and make it happen if you really aren't just about walking around with your resume tattered on your dick because it says "Analyst-and-bottom-of the-totem-pole-but-it-opens-alot-of-doors at Goldman Sachs".
Fin.
"Smarter than most other candidates" "3.5 GPA"
Ok bro
"My technical skills are unmatched, I did Wall Street Prep."
-Robert DuVal
Took me 7 years from the time I graduated to getting what you might call a FO position. And I wouldn't trade where I'm at now for GS, KKR or whatever you can think of (well maybe not Rentech).
It took hundreds of jobs apps to stuff I was qualified for, last round interviews across oceans, and not getting one single offer I was interested in for 7 years. But I'm where I wanted to be. If I had gotten the position I'm in now straight out of college, I might be head of my desk now, but I more likely would have burnt out or coasted at some point.
Use this time to figure out where you really want your career to go, get creative, build some skills. Forget about 'disappointing' other people, by the time I got my dream job I had maybe one friend who still believed I could get it. Don't give up. Do it for you.
This actually reminds me I've been taking it way too easy lately. Going to eat some people for breakfast on Monday.
Last year's numbers for an east coast target:
BX: 2 (they usually hire 0 I think) Apollo: 3 (I think last year was an anomaly, they usually hire 1 for credit/real estate) MM PE: 2
GS: 3 IB, 3 S&T MS: 5 IB, 5 GCM, 6 S&T JPM: 6 IB, 4S&T
BAML: 3 IB, 2 S&T Citi: 1 IB (seriously), 4 Capital Markets
Barclays: 3 IB, 2 S&T DB: 6 IB, 5 S&T UBS: 1 IB
Lazard/Evercore/Moelis/PJT combined: 2
So, that's 68 kids total in front office roles at investment banks/PE firms across IB, capital markets, and S&T. There are about 180 kids every year who are serious about finance recruiting and go out and network (way more who drop their resume). So, for the majority of kids, Bulge Bracket finance jobs do not work out. For only 38% it does. Furthermore, many of the above spots go to blacks and hispanics - for Asian and white males it is even harder to get these jobs.
My point is, going to a target and having a 3.5+ is not enough these days if you are an Asian/white male. Going to a target is just the first step, you need to:
Honestly your GPA matters the most by far. There are always many kids with 3.9s who don't do shit on campus who get back to back first rounds at GS, MS, Apollo, and BAML.
Even many Wharton kids with 3.5+ don't get bulge bracket finance internships - talk to anyone who goes there. Get rid of the entitlement complex and keep grinding. IB and finance in general is more competitive than ever.