Does not seem fair how much money we are making compared to other industries
FT IB Analyst here at a BB. I personally think my life is too easy compared to other high earning careers. Yeah we are worked to the ground compared to other industries, but let me help detail my thought process:
For IB recruiting I did decent in highschool to get into a semi-target. Was beyond easy to get a 3.8+ majoring in economics, my classes were beyond jokes. Insanely easy. Then studied maybe 8-10 hours total of the guides online, took maybe 2-3 coffee chats, got the SA, did SA and just started FT, and now am locked in to make around $180k this year total. This is compared to other fields:
Computer Science - Heard horror stories of how hard the major is, skimming through lines of code for 5+ hours just to find the tiny mistake, etc. Then grinding LEETCODE for 5-7 months to pass the actual super rigorous technical interview process.
Med School - Need a 3.8+ in probably the hardest major there is. Need to study months on months for the MCAT. Then go through so many years of debt + residency.
Law School - Also need a 3.8+, then months of studying for the LSAT (need 170+ for top schools) then years of debt and nonstop reading in law school.
It is hard to wrap my head around how getting into my career seemed 10x easier and 10x less work then the above mentioned. Interested in any thoughts/discussions.
Engineering - Major is hard AF, have to take thermal dynamics, a bunch of physics, etc and still have a good GPA. Don't have much insight on the job prospects or recruiting situation for engineering, but I have a friend who was a genius chemical engineer and is making 89k all in. I realize his hours are better than me, but I know for a fact he is 10x smarter than me and i make double what he makes.
I already know I will get monkey shit. I understand most people in banking and finance have a giant ego and want to seem like they are doing God's work and that banking is super coveted and difficult to get into, but the reality is I am not seeing a whole lot of that.I am not shitting on banking either, I mean I guess it makes sense our comp is so high with how hot the M&A market and fee's coming in, etc. But still, I get this feeling of "Too good to be true" for some reason. Curious for other thoughts.
What school did you go to? What semi target is this easy to get As in econ? Can’t be Vandy or WashU.
My point is finance/economics major is undoubtedly 10x easier than majoring in bio/chem/engineering/computer science.
You should just count your lucky stars then, my undergrad econ classes due to the curve were harder than the bio classes to get a 3.8. This is coming from someone who initially started as a pre-med.
Although the comp-sci and pre-med classes might be a lot harder material-wise, some of us go to schools where the econ and finance classes actually have strict curves and are more desirable majors than bio and cs. Also, the money is barely worth it, working 80 hours a week takes years off your life as well as hurts your overall health, leads less time to grow relationships, pursue hobbies, have some free time which are components that lead to happiness. So making a couple of grand after tax more than the cs major who grinded leetcode for 5-7 months (oh the horror) when he works 25 hours a week is necessary but in most instances we don't even make more than them. You have to remember Google has more 1st year SWE spots than all of the BBs and EBs in NYC combined.
Econ major at target (Top 2 USNews if that's the metric we're using) - Can confirm classes are easy. Engineering majors specifically work their ass off.
What you are missing is the attrition aspect of finance. While the barriers to entry may be somewhat smaller (arguable) than getting into big tech with a hard major like CS, or getting into med school, the attrition is infinitely higher in finance due to the huge work-life balance sacrifices that need to be made in the early career period. Once you’ve made it into big tech and jumped through the hoops to be a doctor your career is more or less set on a stable trajectory without much volatility. Finance is high risk high reward with big sacrifices but also big possibility of recessions or crashes leading to layoffs and poor job stability. A large part of your comp is also variable so your comp range is pretty wide in any given year based on economy / markets / group performance. Finally, traditional careers like medicine/law/tech have a pretty structured headcount while in finance it is a pyramid. The higher you climb in seniority, the fewer seats, thus the harder it is to make the next jump up. That is another risk that you aren’t considering.
TLDR: getting in might be easier in finance (arguable), but staying in and climbing to the top is harder.
For one I think you just got very lucky, given you were not smart enough to get into a target. So you should feel good about that. I agree with you that semi-targets are a total joke, but for some reason banks look outside targets for some reason.
I agree, that being a doctor and engineer is much harder. I think people who eschew banking for medicine are just better people who want to help society and aren’t selfish douchebags like us (for the most part, I’m sure there are nice bankers and arrogant doctors).
Law is similar to banking. So don’t agree it’s that much harder. And engineers have great work life and comp, especially at FAANGs so have no idea why you think engineers comp sucks.
I also think medicine / law / engineers have much better job security when compared to a banker, because their skill sets are less relationship dependent and more technical in my eyes.
But I can see as someone who wasn’t smart enough to get into a target, thinking how easy it is to make big money at a young age and confusing pure luck with pure skill.
Woah glad to see you’re really putting your target school “intellect” to use by rearranging logos everyday. God forbid a bank hires someone from a state school to rearrange logos for them as well…
Even years ago when I was an analyst I didn’t “rearrange logos”. But thanks for your two cents before even entering the industry lol.
Yeah, he turned comments and took notes on calls. Show some respect intern.
I guess when you’re target they give you responsibility lol. No everyone does nothing their first year.
Regardless of this discussion, I personally want you to know you sound like the absolute biggest loser. Holy shit.
the interns always have the most to say
Getting into a target is not hard at all lmfao. I literally only studied one single time for a test in high school and would have gotten into a "target" had I taken the supplementary applications seriously. High school grades are such a joke when someone like myself can go four years without putting in more than an hour or two per month outside of school and finish with grades good enough for targets.
I love these type of people. I could have gotten into an Ivy if I felt like trying. I could have become a doctor if I wanted to. Lol. Could you also have played the NFL if you cared at trying?
Uhhh this just isn't true and you're in for a rude awakening. Very high chance you won't be in IB or even "high-finance" for 20 years unlike a doctor or engineer who will most likely stay in their career and even have greater earnings as they get older. One of the biggest lies on this site from some people are those that spew the "comp doesn't matter as an analyst your earnings will be greater are later on" THE VAST MAJORITY do not stay on in "high-finance" though. They go to another industry or corp dev or whatever and take a paycut. This is reality. There is no free lunch.
if this is true, you are the luckiest man/woman alive.
8 hrs of prep and 2-3 coffee chats for a top BB SA and then FT? yeah right. the average successful applicant does a LOT more than that.
We are doing gods work so of course we deserve the most money
Except you are discounting two major cons for this industry. Job security and lifestyle. As touched upon by others, it is a pyramid, you get canned at a certain level (VP+), you're pretty much done at that level. You could try to find a job in the corporate world, but there goes your pay and highly likely you won't exactly be doing what you want to.
Lifestyle is the other (which med and law are similar, but have more security per above), you spend so much of your time working that you fail to develop other areas of your life, whether that is relationships or hobbies or fitness/health. Tech ends up being the best in this regard to lifestyle. It's not a surprise a lot of the people who stay in the industry who do end up "succeeding" have some combination of poor relationships, poor health, or zero interests outside of spending money / travel.
..
Message to AN1s that most of you probably/should already know, you are not making nearly $200k/yr because your employer thinks that you're smart. You are making that because they assume that you are willing to work 100 hours/wk whenever necessary, ditch any other obligations you have outside of the office if a deal/pitch heats up and you're needed (weekends, holidays, etc.), and after beating the shit out of you for a couple of years, maybe you'll be in a position to add value and contribute to the idea generation / client / counterparty relationship/communication of the job necessary to help direct a process.
Do most bankers have the brain power of a rocket scientist or neurosurgeon? No. Is it uncommon for rocket scientists or neurosurgeons to work 90+ hour weeks consistently and develop health problems in their 20s as a result of their workload? Yeah. OP, you may be just getting some light staffings in your first few months on the desk, but give it some time. When you string together a month of 100 hour weeks, or several months of 90 hour weeks while consistently working on 3-4 hours of sleep w/out any free weekends, you'll realize why you're getting paid what you are.
I'm not even in banking anymore so this isn't said as a form of self-affirmation, but you're earning your salary if you're in a busy group.
“if anyone here thinks I’m superficial or materialistic. Go get a job at fucking McDonald’s, because that’s where you fucking belong!”
Lol meanwhile my tech bros selling enterprise software are pulling 300-500k annually with non-target degrees, with 4-6 years of experience, working from Costa Rica maybe 6 hours a day…