Extreme introvert - sick of "networking"
Currently with ~4y exp in IB / PE in Asia. Throughout my career I had been ok lucky, getting into IBD from places I didn't network (rejected by places I actually networked), moved to a MM PE since then but wanted to move around and realized applying online is shooting into the dark even with a decent resume. Over the years, I feel that networking and socializing are so important but I feel very sick and tired of these.
I always feel networking is a painful act. Pretending I am interested in your job, acting very engaged on my face. Actually I know what you guys do in IBD and PE, I know what corp dev / IR / strategy entails. I have worked with people in these industries. I google and I check WSO / reddit / whatever. I feel disgusted having the need to shoot non-stop emails asking for coffee, make time to pretend just to request for a job. And it is awkward af when we talk, every time I ask something, the guy answers, 90% of the time inside I would feel "er, so what? who cares? sounds meaningful" and I have to respond something to pretend it is something cool to keep convo going.
Same goes with socializing at work. I am very tired creating the slides. I don't want to drink with you guys, I am sick of people around, I am sick of drinking. I don't watch the same TV shows as you guys and I have nothing to talk. It is boring, painful and waste of my time.
But these are the only ways to expand network and otherwise I have no exit just applying online, WTF? I spoke with my college friends who are in IBD / any other high pay jobs. It seems majority of them networked for their current jobs and most, if not all networked for at least 1 job in their career.
This is painfully waste of time and it sucks. I always want to just have my own time. I don't like hanging out with people in college and at work or basically just throughout my life.
Am I doomed? Sorry guys if I ranted too much.
glad I'm not the only one
Seconded
Thirded
Look, if you hate the human interaction nature of the job, you should look into career paths that don’t require this as much. HFs / AMs come to mind as requiring far less human interaction (depending on the strategy). You’re at the least ‘human interaction’ rung of IB / PE. As you progress up, you’ll need to exponentially scale the number of people you interact with as part of your job. By what you noted, you’ll become exponentially more miserable along the way. You’ll also become increasingly ‘bad’ at your job. No one expects a lot from the social interactions with analysts / associates - the job is mostly execution. VP and above is not this at all - so if you have less ‘stamina’ for human interaction, you’ll tire quickly and not do as much as your peers, who will correspondingly outperform you
Yea, thanks a lot bro. I actually considered that as well. Just not sure if it is differences in Asia vs RoW.
The LO / HF job actually requires pretty few human interaction or at least not so much socializing aspect vs others when it comes to actual work (except maybe occasional management meetings or expert calls).
Just the issue is finding job itself requires networking so much. Like asking a PM for coffee chat, ask for endless referrals etc.
And the process just sucks so hard.. Especially when all of us know what PM does or what investing is like and we still have to ask "what is your typical day", "what is the most difficult part of your job", "do you have any advice for me", etc.
It is just quite nauseous if one is extreme introvert and I just feel disgusted the acting skills or time required for our corporate world
Edit: just re-read your comment. I am actually ok presenting or discussing work in formal settings or meetings and asking questions in DD etc. Just I hate the socializing aspect so much. I feel annoyed it is as important if not more important than doing the job itself. It is just very difficult to find new job opportunities without socializing co-workers when most recruiting is based on referrals and no one will ever comes to you if you don't know them and you are not close enough with people to solicit their referrals.
I think part of the point being made is that the MDs aren’t just winning deals by having the best presentations. A lot of it is relationship driven, which includes going to those dinners, sports games etc. It’s extremely hard if not impossible to bring in deals without having existing relationship. So it’s definitely worth considering if you want to be in a career where long term your success is going to be based on networking.
How the fuck did you manage to get 4 years of experience??? This is some Patrick Bateman shit above. Have you considered getting help from a mental health professional?
you'll be surprised how many people don't enjoy hanging out with colleagues after work and talking about empty pop culture. I would say it's probably the majority of people.
Yeah but this kid is talking beyond that.
Not as introverted as you, but im an introvert, with a bit of social anxiety for sure.
I feel you, though I am just an incoming now, it was extremely difficult to break out of my comfort zone to network and interview well to get my offer. I find it still difficult to chat up people I don't know well, but I feel like it is a skill I still need to work on and master, regardless of what career I will be going into. Friends and relationships always matter, and I have been told by multiple seniors/mentors in c-suite levels that as you move up the ladder even higher, relationships are what make or break your life sometimes.
I understand how shitty it is to do something that you don't like and/or not comfortable with, but I think it is just an aspect of life, like your knowledge in the industry/college/GPA(for students lol), that you need to master for you to be successful, at least in this realm of "business". Hate the game, but what can we do.
I relate so much to what you're saying.
OP remember that your brain is malleable –– you can literally hard-wire skills into it if you put in the effort.
I took some public speaking classes my first 2 years, which made me more confident speaking to a crowd, and I also just spoke up in class more and asked questions, which had sm benefits in building connections with professors.
Think about how some people are naturally people-oriented but have trouble studying/remembering info. On the other hand, we were naturally curious/good at learning but had a hard time with people, so we just need to build it like a skill. It definitely takes time, and there are still so many days where I just prefer to be alone, but when necessary I can still draw upon the social skills I have built.
This speaks to my soul
I feel exactly the same way about networking.
We should create a club exclusively for introverts. Serves the need to network with zero social cordiality bs. Paradoxical but I wonder what it could look like.
IB / PE is full of introverts. Most of the MDs / Partners I have worked with are socially awkward, struggle to maintain eye contact, have no hobbies, nothing to talk about etc. These guys spend 30+ years of their lives using work as an excuse to avoid social interaction. The extroverts go into S&T.
wtf is this real i though all MDs and Partners in IB PE were supposed to be alpha AF
If you think about it, IB/PE is an introvert's wet dream. You get paid to spend 80+ hours per week sitting alone at your computer. Social skills aren't really a requirement until you become a senior person interacting with clients. And even then, I have been in enough meetings / calls with super senior people to know that these interactions tend to be very bland and 'corporate' - i.e. senior partners will spend 10 mins awkwardly talking about their kids, sports and the weather before moving onto business. Even a deep introvert should be able to navigate that kind of situation with a bit of practice.
Haha I completely relate. Nearly two and a half years in now and no clue how I'll continue down the road
don't do it. why are you networking? you already have the job. just do it well, collect paycheck, and go do what you enjoy. I haven't networked with anybody since I got my job and I'm doing great - moving up through the ranks quickly, getting great reviews.
also relate to this
Feel you
As an introvert, it’s tough for me to choose options in SJT that don’t correspond to my personality
Even started questioning myself it IB is for me or not
First off, congrats on 4 years in what are very relationship heavy industries. Seriously, as an introvert, pat yourself on the back for pushing through. I know how exhausting it can be, I'm as introverted as they come. I don't despise interaction as much as you seem to, but I'm absolutely mentally drained at the end of each day.
Echo what others have said, that the level of interaction required exponentially increases as you move up in banking / PE. So your head is in the right place re: finding new opportunities. I think AM / LO makes sense.
I do want to caution you on your attitude. Please don't take this as an insult or an attack, but genuinely "tough love" for a fellow introvert. There is a reason relationships and networking are super important, and the biggest is to build trust. Nobody cares how many books you've read, how much Google/WSO/Reddit you read, or how smart you think you are. I say that to give you a bit of a reality check, that browsing the Internet doesn't mean you know everything, or frankly, anything at all. You have to demonstrate all that and interviews only go so far. Among many other soft skills, EQ, self awareness and polish are super important and honestly, your post demonstrates none of these.
Unless you want to be an analyst/associate forever, at some point, human interaction and soft skills are an absolute must in almost every finance path. HFs need to raise money and keep investors happy. PMs cannot make decisions solely on numerical and written data. You have to build trust.
Omg are you me!? feel exactly the same way, except I'm less than a year into my new role as an analyst. coupled with social anxiety, i just hate it all, i wish i could do remote 100% of the time, or had my own cubicle. better yet, i wish my team was more introverted/had people with social anxiety so we can be awkward together lol. its just so draining having to act enthusiastic and put on that smiley face, and speak with an upbeat tone. jeez...someone should set up a socially awkward fund, i would totally join.
Completely relate. I started as an analyst in 2020 and actually feel so lucky I got a full year remote
I remember this London IB/PE thread saying networking is NOT usually a thing there. Likewise, networking is not HUGE in Asia either compared to NA (networking, not nepotism, because nepotism is a HUGE thing in Asia).
I think this industry deems networking as something mandatory, effectively elevating the barriers to entry, because you don't need much hard skills to begin with, unlike some other industries. That's why there's huge emphasis on school name, GPA, networking, etc.
I feel you brother. You have a lot of the same thoughts I do when it comes to conversations with others. I ended up in AM and sometimes there are days I go without talking for more than 2-3 minutes. It's excellent. Try to move to equity or fixed income research. My portfolio manager is one who doesn't like having his time wasted. So all he cares about is good research. If we have a conversation it's about the market or something meaningful. We never discuss weather or sports or the details of our weekend.
ooh i like this! not talking about bs...just work.
A lot of juniors in finance regurgitate things their seniors say and its sort of an echo chamber in that way. I'd recommend reaching out to seniors / people with interesting backgrounds, they're much more fun to talk with even if it doesn't lead to a job immediately. You'd be surprised how willing they are to give referrals and help you out tho, at least in US.
Haha that's pretty much me. I am in sort of hi-bye relationship with pretty much all my colleagues. So it's awkward as hell when everyone is just chilling chatting around in office and I am just always stuck on my desk minding my own business.
Company's drinking event is the worst as I will be pretty much stuck in the corner sipping my drinks slowly while trying not to feel bad about myself.
lmao this is me; bonus points when the MD sees me as is like "oh wow didn't notice you were there" in front of everybody....
Just go the HF route, networking consists of discussing the market and your view on catalysts or fundamentals. Vast majority of my friends from industry literally just message each other to ask market related knowledge.
I have really close friends to confine in, if wanted an industry friend for that I would actually take then to lunch/dinner not pointless networking.
Corporate world is gay af
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