Fuck My Associate
Anyone have those lazy ass associates that don’t ever do shit and just give you all the work, then don’t even give you credit for it?
Trending Content
Career Resources
WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through
April 30, 2024
9 Free Financial Modeling Lessons
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
Yeah, but tbh not giving you “credit” doesn’t really matter. The VP/MD know that the associate isn’t doing all the work
Bring on the monkey shits you insecure fucks
I disagree with this actually. During my first year I was given feedback in a performance review that I should actively "take ownership" of my work more because the MD didn't see what I did vs my associate (who was similar to the type that OP is describing).
Same omg same. I ended up quitting after bonus
This is kind of silly. Your job is to support your associate and the person with the biggest say in your review / how much you get paid is the associate.
So as long as they support you at year end, there's really nothing to complain about.
That being said, your associate may very well be a terrible person/manager. not necessarily defending them. Just you need some perspective.
- Associate 2 in IB - Cov
Sounds like the type of guy to forward a bunch of text comments to the Analyst (who is getting bombed at Fiddlesticks on a Thurs night) with a "you got this?" email, who then ends up forwarding the turned deck (that the Analyst did) back to the team. I'm obviously kidding but that's what it sounds like out of context
Fair enough.
My point was more that it's a losing battle to complain about everything getting delegated to you because the senior is probably telling the associate to delegate stuff to you.
There are more legitimate gripes that can do a lot more to further your work life balance. Is your associate getting sign-off from seniors on a shell before you start working on materials? Is the associate proactively managing the process so that you get comments from seniors in a timely manner and not getting a bunch of changes last second? Is the guidance you're getting consistent generally with what the end product is (e.g., are you regularly doing pages that get killed)? Are you getting questions answered in a timely manner?
If the answer no to any of these, would argue it's a much more serious issue.
MBA Moment
Take a chill pill man and learn to manage upwards (and your emotions too). We do get lazy analysts too but we don’t go around complaining all day long. It is not gonna solve ur prob here on WSO… and ur VPs and MDs are not dumb - they have been in ur position. If u are truly that good, ur bonus will reflect that and ur associate will be fucked. If u are working with an aso 2/3, their main responsibility is to review work and do some VP stuff - they should come in when the slides are complex, require some brainstorming, or if it is urgent. Any other thing such as comps/profile/benchmark/etc should be your responsibility (with associate guiding you)
My man you just described the Analyst experience.
Trust me, you don’t want “credit” for shit. What if that MBA Associate didn’t properly check your shit and now you get flamed by your MD on the whole email chain? Or, god forbid, you get recognized for your good work so you get the “best” staffings, aka your life is fucked. All for what, some old ass white dude to finally learn your name? Nahhhhh
Push back if you’re too busy, and if you’re really not feeling it, say some other project had a bunch of shit going down so it’s be great if they could take a slide or two and you’ll get to it shortly. You don’t have to be some kind of martyr like “oh no I’m not getting any help, but I’ll just do it anyway blah blah blah.” You have a little bit of agency so try to milk it.
This is 100% the correct answer. Stick up for yourself re: WLB, but “recognition” or “credit” are a waste of time at the analyst level. Do your slides, then go hit the town.
Best part about being an analyst is the 'Crest of Ignorance' (google it if you don't know). Sounds like you're only hearing an earful from your Associate, while everything else is likely badgering your Associate about everything that goes wrong. That said, this could just be an awful associate - don't have enough information.
In truth the associate should still play an active role in crafting the deliverable by shelling, guiding you, taking high-level pages, reviewing, and jumping in during time crunches. The analyst is here to absorb the more mindless work like stated above (comps, benchmarking, team pages etc.) If your associate does none of this they're just bad and they will probably get flamed hard during 360 reviews (if they do it to others too) and get picked apart by seniors for work full of holes (which unfortunately reflects poorly on the analyst too, even if they don't have the benefit of a good associate reviewing materials)
The problem is it takes until a few bad reviews for the associate to get reprimanded or pushed out. They can keep punching down on the analysts until then which can be frustrating.
Honestly your power all depends on your investment in the job. If you're a highly-invested analyst who wants good reviews working with a checked-out associate you're screwed because they dgaf. Likewise if you're a checked-out second year with an associate who wants to be a career banker they'll clean up after your mess if you push-back. Test the waters by pushing back and see their reaction. If they cave that means they're more invested than you thought. Don't do this if you're adamant about being top bucket
As an associate, I would tell a senior banker to fuck over your precious buyside offer if you don’t pull your weight. Fine to check out; but not fine to refuse to do any work.
You, a current Analyst 1, think that after you eat shit for two more years to get promoted, would turn into a total rat because a second year does less work than normal after they know they are quitting? I doubt it. Good Associates know who is checked out and who isn’t and can manage accordingly.
Furthermore, you would look like a whiny bitch if you did that. Guess what man, PE firms are clients of IBs. Thus, your MD would want to preserve that relationship if they’re worth their salt. “Pull their weight…” on what exactly? An extra comps or creds page? Please lighten up hahaha
I don't think the analyst who stops putting in effort the second they get a PE offer has a particularly bright future in PE either, but that's more correlation vs. causation.
But yeah, no senior is going to trash an analyst to a client 1) they look by stupid broadcasting publicly that they're not able to sufficiently motivate their employees and 2) it's so far below their radar that it's not worth the effort. Only possible scenario I can imagine a senior saying something is if there's a serious ethics breach.
As stated above, the referrals are largely a joke and most just choose a drinking buddy from their group.
He didn’t say he’s doing “no work.” He said he’s doing all of it, with no support or credit. FYI, do-nothing associates get rail-roaded out far more quickly than their lackadaisical analyst counterparts.
I don't really know what taking credit for work as an associate really means... On my deals, I assume the associate is mostly double-checking what the analyst is doing and providing guidance (and stepping in to help out when needed). If I think the associate is doing most of the work then there is something seriously wrong with the team dynamics and I worry that work product is not being thoroughly reviewed and I definitely am more likely to blame the associate. I think some analysts mistakenly think that VP+ bankers don't get how work is actually divided among the junior bankers, don't worry about associates taking credit, everyone has been in your seat and knows how much work analysts put in.
On two separate occasions as an analyst I dealt with a useless associate who I ended up doing his/her job. And no they weren't even MBA associates. They basically absconded on their responsibilities as it related to checking work and generally managing your direct deliverables. Absolute trash as I would often send work to the wider group without proper associate review and get flamed if something was off or whatever. Seniors eventually knew it wasn't my fault as analyst but at the time, it just made me look bad.
Depends what you're referring to, and the particulars of the situation.
At smaller firms, the Associate could be tied up on more origination work. At larger firms, they may have higher priority deals / pitches.
There are also just useless Associates, and there are useless Analysts as well.
Sorry.
Fight ‘em. Take them to a room, lock the door, lay your blazer over a chair and roll up your sleeves while they look at you in confusion. Get real close and say, do I have your attention now?
I felt this way as an an analyst and that’s why I stayed on as an associates. Associates are the most useless people in banking, we provide minimal value, it’s the best pay per hour until you hit MD.
Other people mentioned this, so don’t know if I’m really adding anything, but that’s the job and that is what happens in a large political organization. It’s not IB specific either. It’s def something I think a lot of people in their first job struggle with. You will be much happier and more successful in the long run if you learn the way to succeed in a large organization is making the person directly above you look good. It’s not getting credit or looking fancy to the partners. Your job/goal should be to make the associate have as easy a life as possible. In return, that associate will speak to others about how you are a great analyst and give you a solid review. Also, if someone else has worked their way through a political organization (anyone senior) they have learned this concept and accepted it. As a result, they know what is going on behind the scenes and frankly will find it childish/ lacking tact if you make a stink or have a bad attitude about your manager taking credit for your work.
is this bullshit? Yeah, it is. That’s why many people leave investment banking and why working in a large organization is frustrating and something many people aren’t ok with. I took a smaller paycheck because I would rather work for an org that doesn’t have bullshit politics. As others mentioned, to get through being an analyst, do your work, allow others to take credit, and hang with friends/ move on from it. Don’t let the job take up any extra mental headspace and it’s not worth getting worked up over. You likely have a shitty manager/ associate and I promise you will have another—it’s part of the job and being an analyst. Also, when you get a good a manger make sure you let them know you want to work with them in the future.
You decided to join an industry that pays less than a McDonalds worker per hour, and where every single person has major emotional or mental problems.
Push back and let them know the Associate is useless.
Lol - Not true.
Assume worst case scenario 100 hour work weeks --> 5200 hours per year --> A1 - $180,000 TC --> 35$ per hour. MCD is $15 per hour.
Now apply appropriate progressive tax rates to both figures. Banking cop is taxed at higher effective rate than mcdonalds. I remember doing these calcs back when I was an analyst
Came in expecting this to be about an analyst fucking his associate. Left disappointed.
I don’t want to jump to conclusions as there’s not enough info on the dynamics and interpersonal management skills of you and your Associate, but there are 2 scenarios to consider, which largely depend on the Director+ you’re working with:
1. Most likely: The workload is trickle down, with the Director+ staffing the VP, who staffs the Associate, who staffs the Analyst. The Associate reviews, guides, manages and submits the Analyst’s work, thus “taking credit” and likewise taking responsibility for the work. He/she receives the compliments but also the criticisms and comments depending on its quality. The VP does the same with the Associate’s work when presenting to the Director, and so on up the chain. Sometimes there’s no VP so you skip that rank but the logic is the same. This isn’t a hard fast rule but the general “chain of command”. Director+’s know how this works too so it’s not like it’s a secret.
As an Analyst, you should seek to learn as much as you can and not worry too much about “taking credit” yet because that also goes the other way around, taking responsibility when there are mistakes. Your Associate should hopefully recognize your work accordingly when reviews are due though.
2. Less likely: If the Director+ is hands-on and assigns tasks directly to the Analyst or Associate, then the one who’s staffed should submit directly and therefore “get the credit” but also ensure the work’s quality, unless there’s an understanding otherwise. It all depends on the dynamics of a given team and people’s work styles.
Not enough info in your story to make judgements but try taking a step back and relaxing.
Analyst/ASO Relationship: Be a Competitor. Focus on what you can control. Rationalize what's out of your control. Set a goal for your knowledge/skillset = your Associate knowledge/skillset--the bar is set low. The Barriers to entry are minimal, and the Growth Drivers are your mental ability & willingness - the ball's in your court. So don't make this about him. Make this about YOU. As mentioned - the Bar is set low: that should get you excited, bc after that - it's alllll differentiation from there, giving your the opportunity to almost SHOW OFF your value relative to his - That you are generally on Par, making it at least an argument about who's better for a given task. What's stopping you from getting to a point where your knowledge & skillset is = your Associate's? Make a list of your knowledge gaps vs. Associate and make it your passion to get there ASAP. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and start exploring - then start organizing. You all have access to the same computer drive & folders. Knowledge Gaps - keyword search to compile content of interest. Learn via multiple examples at speed on your own time (vs. whoever was on these deals and worked on them for 6-8 or 10-12 weeks). Instead - you're learning everything about this deal in a couple hours - and saving to your personal folder for future ref. The great thing about old deals that closed is all the materials have already been created, analysis summarized. Its all free content w/ immediate access.
You want credit? Be your own PR firm - share interesting news/resources - Reply All to your entire team. Attach docs, summarize conclusions in a short email. Not SPAM content, but overlooked content or something they would not have access to via email otherwise. Perhaps some trends you're noticing during synthesizing comps ("seeing more <$50MM EBITDA companies getting deals done at 7.0x+ leverage". Idk. Add value to your team via knowledge & insights. It's a free, voluntary way for your team to see your skills, especially those not on your deal's email thread. You will likely find these ideas on your own as you build your skillset and have a culture of being intellectually inquisitive. Caveats - Obviously take this idea w/ grain of salt - you don't wanna be annoying or this may be viewed as abnormal behavior.
Your associate checks your work? Offer to check his. Or do it on your own without telling him. Maybe if you find something material (not petty) that is noteworthy - maybe even saves his behind - you have the right to check his work. Know what he's working on bc maybe you can add value. Maybe you worked on a very similar deal and have a good template for a particular deliverable he might find useful. Create opportunities for you to have leverage over him.
Michael Jordan: "He never asked me to do something that he didn’t f***ing do"
What's stopping you from getting to a point where your Associate isn't teaching you - but you're teaching him? I realize a good amount of what I mentioned requires an element of creativity, innovation, and doing a task with no "How to", so it's great to hear but not for everyone.
Did I run-on rambling or did I add some good ideas to think about? Thoughts? A couple links related to this mindset below.
Beneath the mystery of Tom Brady’s greatness is a modest secret: Self-discipline
Think it's been covered, but if you're not hearing any push back from anyone more senior to the associate, that's a GOOD THING. That means the associate isn't throwing you under the bus - either they're catching your mistakes OR they're not but then accepting responsibility for them.
I personally hate nothing more than when VP/Director catches an analyst mistake, because their reaction isn't "oh what a dumbass analyst", it's "Why didn't YOU catch this Mr. Associate? This is YOUR job. They're 8 months on from drinking on a frat roof, you're in your late 20s, get it together."
Understood it can be tough if the associate isn't giving any positive feedback though.
Associates who are confused or lazy is one thing. But associates who think their title gives them the right to dump everything on analysts are straight up insufferable.
Corrupti eaque quasi corporis minus. Consequatur voluptates qui omnis quo qui.
Placeat et occaecati facere odio aut quidem dolores. Nihil quia sed consequatur officiis animi in. Doloribus incidunt beatae corporis tempora fuga et similique.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Rerum vero sapiente nihil fugit ipsa impedit similique. Voluptatem sunt consequatur ut quia. Sapiente repudiandae nostrum nisi sed nostrum qui commodi. Vel eius repudiandae eum. Accusantium aspernatur unde ut cumque quo quisquam. Accusantium voluptas nihil ex molestiae blanditiis tempora pariatur. Et ut sunt amet nulla non magni.