Help: Plan B
I am a 3.7 GPA non-diversity non-target Econ major, but at a generally well respected school with a strong alumni base. Have applied to 20+ IB SA spots with no traction so far. I have only really networked appropriately for one company, (whose interviews have not been opened for T3 yet, and I am still hopeful about), but things are not looking great.
I need to start thinking about a plan B, but I don't know where to start. I am interning at a 60 employee buy-side firm (kind of a unique company. Similar to a PE firm, but not exactly) this summer, and am hoping that the connections from that can somehow provide me with some sort of opportunity, (whether that be at that same company for the next summer, or at a Boutique Bank in a similar niche), but am unsure if this is a realistically possibility.
I don't know what my next steps should be, but I think my "ultimate" goal is to get to the buy-side full time.
What should I do, what should I think, where should I be looking? ….. Should I give everything up and move to the middle of nowhere in Europe? ….. All suggestions are good suggestions.
The best plan A is to operate without a plan B.
Nothing maximizes the likelihood of success more than the fear of death.
You’re blinded by survivorship bias. Plenty of kids work their asses off and still need a plan B. Looking at the world in forms of probabilities shows the poster is capable of critical thought and self honesty which makes me believe he will have a good shot at the buyside when he gets his break.
Probabilities are for people who leave their goals up to the whims of the universe.
I’m not blinded by a survivorship bias, I’m blinded by an iron will.
Why would you ever submit to being in the far left or even middle of the bell curve?
What they don’t tell you about averages is that the people on the right tail will always end up on there no matter the circumstance. Sure some of it is smarts and luck, but most of it is grit and tenacity.
3 things drive an outcome: luck, hard work and skill. If you’re in the top 0.5% of skill and hard work you’re a global max, and you generally don’t need luck to succeed. If, like most of the people on WSO, you’re in the top 10-30% of each hard work and skill, you’re likely a local max but not a global max. You generally need luck to grease the skids to get you to a top 1% outcome.
Luck = randomness x duration. You can’t control randomness. You can control duration. Never give up. Success is a statistical inevitability.
My haircut is slightly better than yours.
Just reading the title I thought this was about a pregnancy.
I was hoping to get educated on that. Maybe someone can start that thread.
Build out a more expansive networking list and send cold emails to get traction elsewhere. Seems like u have a good SA23 role… the process will be ongoing for a while longer… don't get distracted by applications closing. I was same position as u, gpa, non target, non diversity and I got a late offer top MM SA23. Just push forward and don't quit at it. Ur addressing plan b when that shouldn't even be a thought for the next 4-5 months lol. Pm if u need advice
How late was that late offer ?
…. what is the longest I should wait before scrambling elsewhere
I got a superday in June last year, several months after submitting my app
November
Keep on networking and applying. Maybe look at AM or Wealth Management as a backup. The buy-side role you are in sounds legit enough, so also try your best to get a return as your last resort option.
whatever you do dont do this. Unless you're looking at PM roles in AM. WM is not where its at. Speaking as someone who has been stuck on this side of the business for 4 years at BB's and top AM's. Your grades are too high, and goals too lofty to make WM worth a first thought let alone a second. Only do this is if youre actually jobless and obsessed with prestige over skills.
Asset management internships are more competitive than IB. Weird mindset that IB kids can fall back on AM if their recruiting doesn’t go well. Especially since recruiting happens at the same time for big name firms. WM however is a different story.
why is AM more competitive than IB? I’ve always heard people lump AM and WM together as options for a plan B
I think most people would agree that a LMM/MM buyside seats out of undergrad are usually a dilutive experience due to an unstructured training experience, fewer opportunities to build a network, and generally administrative work responsibilities that don’t allow you to get the reps you need to grow. So I would focus on banking for FT since MFPE analyst seats seem like a bit of a moonshot given your background.
Having said that, I had a similar background to yours. Struck out entirely for actual NYC EB/BB roles and went to a name brand PE shop to intern in a non-care investment strategy. Lateraled to an EB my senior year and placed into a name brand PE seat in oncycle.
I bring up my background because it’s a.) not uncommon in the grand scheme of things and b.) serves the point I’m about to make:
What’s the probability distribution function on luck that you experience in your lifetime? I would argue it’s uniform. Sometimes lucky, sometimes not, and largely average. So I’d go so far as to say that even FT doesn’t matter because any outcome you face due to luck, will wash out over the course of you career. With good luck canceling out the bad.
The only plan you should have is to be good as fuck at the job you want to do. Model with your eyes closed, know your technicals down so cold you don’t need to prep before an interview, and build your resume by doing the best you can do at the best roles you can find. The rest will sort itself out over time.
No one gives a fuck where the partner interned while he was in school.
That was pretty inspirational, thanks
Totally agree.
MF PE here. We have a strong bias against hiring associates that did PE directly out of Ug vs. a banking program. Not entirely intuitive to a college kid, but from my perspective the training/experience in BB IBD is a tried and tested feeder. Everyone knows the intensity, reps, attn to detail, and 4 different layers of ppl giving you comments/oversight.
Most of that is completely lacking in the direct from Ug PE experience. You won’t get the same reps, scrutiny, handholding, micromanagement.
Theoretically uniform distribution but doesn’t take into account n events that play a large role in success. Path dependence matters and starting your career with luck by landing a good role is more important than getting lucky on the second half of your career. So it matters to a certain extent
Yeah you’re right. Path dependency does play a role but whether it’s positive or negative is a wash and personally dependent. Fact is, you could be incredibly lucky and brilliant and land a great IB seat. Say PJT RSSG for example. You could go to Apollo next and then to Viking and live everyone’s dream. Or you could wash out because you got grinded to the bone and just want to be happy.
Not sure if your title is dated but whether or not you choose to be happy and leave, or whether you choose to stay, is a decision you can’t predict until you have some real experience under your belt. Trust me, one bad sell side will have you questioning why you chose the sweatshop MF with solid SM HF placements real quick. Additionally, you could wash at any moment in your career - most Apollo associates don’t make it through all the four years. That fact alone adds another order of magnitude of variables.
Truth is that it’s a chaotic system and gauging the value of path dependency isn’t worth the upside - or possible for that matter. Also, keeping things high level as long as you get your point across is banking 101.
You have plenty of time to land IB... banks will fill spots throughout the summer. You need to do a lot better on networking and applications.
Plan Bs should be thought about if it's August/September and you still have nothing - most of these corporate jobs or even prestigious non-IB jobs recruit in the late summer and fall. If you want buyside IB is 1000% the best route, you need to fight more to get there.
Agree with above that LMM/MM PE is not a great seat right out of school. You often get little training and no brand... exit ops become slim with no IB experience to fall back on
Okay thanks, so you think I should push as hard I can to avoid working at same company next summer? And if I had the option to work at the same company next summer or a MM bank, I should choose bank?
yes
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