How Do You Know If You’re a “Hardo”?
I recently completed a spring week at a mid-market bank, and I couldn’t help but notice that, aside from the classic European target school crowd (you know the ones), I seemed to know quite a bit more about technicals and general finance than most of the other attendees.
Some of the things I assumed were basic knowledge for anyone interested in IB or S&T, like how a DCF works(I don't me could make a model in there sleep kind of stuff, just like the basic concept of it), what WACC is, or why debt is usually cheaper than equity.
On top of that, a lot of people didn’t seem familiar with some of the more well-known figures in the industry or general market context.
It has left me wondering: am I just unusually deep into this stuff, or has the average level of knowledge among spring week participants genuinely dropped over the years? Or, and this is what I am actually worried about, am I just becoming that guy? The insufferable hardo who takes all of this far too seriously and starts quoting IRR calculations over lunch. Would be good to hear from people who have done multiple springs or helped run these programmes. Is this normal, or do I just need to go outside and touch some grass?
I hope this is a joke post because those are all basic concepts
A post like this is how you know.
There is a chasm of difference between knowing the basics / being good at your job and making it your entire personality.
If you have to ask, then odds are that you are.
Or worse, a hardo personality-wise but an incompetent mess in reality. Add a splash of narcissism and you have the worst candidate you could possibly hire.
U just roasted the shit out of me bro
In the US, non-target (UF/Kelley/UT) Moelis analyst who lands at MFPE is a very definition of hardo to my knowledge.
A successful kid is a hardo lmao gtfo intern
Saying Kelley and UT are non target screams hardo
Calling Indiana and UT a non target makes you a hardo
del
If you're rude and unpleasant to others, you're probably a hardo.
E.g., giving others a hard time over really minor things that any other person would think you are being unreasonable about. One time, I had an associate literally sit me down for half an hour and chastise me because he didn't like how I formatted one box of a page.
You're not a hardo, and this just shows how the filter HR applies doesn't get the people that are the most interested in the job. Externalities - school, random extracurriculars, cool competitions - matter more than intrinsic motivation in the job.
As a matter of fact, don't recruiters complain that "they are too bored to see the same finance students with all finance clubs and interest" and they just skip those and look for something more "unique"? So "let's go with a biology student because I am bored of seeing the same LSE student profile" or "hey Jennie, this looks like a strong candidate for this IB M&A role, what's your view? Jennie: Hmm, finance extracurriculars, modeling bootcamp, investment society, heavy finance curriculum - nah, we need someone else for a finance role, let's call this English literature grad, he screams potential" lmao God forbid someone shows too much interest in finance, because that's a red flag according to HR
Truth be told, IB is an office job and many see it this way. If operations paid more, everyone would go for operations. There is no real interest in it besides the money, "career stepping stone" and figuring out what you want to do with your live meanwhile you collect some OK paychecks. The most passionate about finance end up in HFs where it's harder to grasp true finance and not the mumbo jumbo done in IB. They live and breathe finance, but IB/PE? Nah. Because everyone with a pulse can do it HR can experiment and do whatever they want recruitment-wise.
tl;dr: You're not a hardo, met guys who on their spare time would write investment thesis just to post them on Twitter for fun. The fact that some basic DCF knowledge is seen as "hardo" just shows how this industry is dying and becoming another corporate job as every other.
Accurate
Did you even convert your mid market spring?
Unfortunately, most Spring Weeks these days are either non-convertible or only offer fast-tracks. From speaking to people, I’ve heard that the average quality of Spring Week converts in the summer was quite poor, though I’m not sure how true that actually is. So now, all I get is fast-tracked to an assessment centre before general applications open.
Don't fool me, mate. Springs are still converting people.
JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, Citi, Barclays, Evercore, Lazard, PJT, PWP, Rothschild, Jefferies, Macquarie. They all hold ACs after the spring and offer conversions.
GS non-convertible, ok. RBC + UBS just fast-track. Unsure about Nomura/BNP - someone chip in.
So what are you on about mate?
Having to ask the question is usually a telltale sign. Stay hard my good friend.
No? wtf lol
If you understand these concepts and you have an interest in the space, you would naturally learn about it and present an enthusiasm to the interviewers.
I have been to interviews where other candidates (I heard) didn't even know how to describe the workings of a cash flow statement.
Even at my uni, I find it a bit sad that some people think if you learn technicals or you're really interested in the nitty-gritty of something, that makes you a "nerd" or a "sweat". Maybe it's a British thing? (I am British myself) and it really annoys me. Every time I try to read up on something or study something, I tend to get a "oh what a sweat" like wtf why would I not educate myself and be a bit more knowledgeable. Earlier I was doing some BIWS modelling ahead of the summer just to get familiar with IBD since I had time to kill and it's a good experience for me lol idgaf what people say.
I like reading coverage on PU&I / Automotives because I've always been interested in Renewables & Electric cars but it doesn't make me a hardo despite what other people say lol.
Obviously, it's clear you have other hobbies to further add to the fact that you aren't a hardo but knowing at least the basics and having an interest in it isn't a "hardo" by any means.
Just curious, do you go to a target uni or non? I find that at semi/non targets, they envy their peers who do well and proceed to call them "sweats", "bangout", "nerd", "tryhard", "fluke". The list goes on...
Target but all of my friends who I stayed in touch with were at non-targets
Let me tell you (haha) my friends at semi / non-targets REGRETTED not putting in more effort at school, despite being the same people who would say "what a sweat, doing all those past papers!"
As soon as they started putting effort into uni, they suddenly realised how it felt being on the receiving end of all of those remarks from others on their course, which makes me laugh to this day.
There was a really good reddit thread on this, I will find the link about how people put others down for trying to be more informed and educated.
Reddit r/askUK "Why do you think many people in the UK take pride in being thick?"
del
exactly, seems that staying a bum is the socially acceptable thing to do. Can't say "I plan to go home and research some automotive industry trends to see what's going on" in social settings, need to come up with the classic "ahh yea mate, can't wait to get home and watch some Netflix with tacos" (so you can get back a "what a fookin nice evening mate, congrats")
This is the most homosexual, self-glazing post I have ever seen. Those concepts you mentioned are literally the first things you learn when you do technical prep??
glad you mention homosexuality, because that's how the others who don't know what a DCF is got in
legit mate, guy thinks knowing that DCF = "discounted cash flow" is S-tier hardo poised for success at Blackstone
Yeah, that is what I thought, but I seemed to be in the minority of people who actually understood them in any meaningful way.
Mate give it a rest 😂 "I seemed to be [one of the only people] who actually understood them in any meaningful way" - I have never cringed this much on this site, I assure you are simply not that guy, especially without even getting a return offer yet. If you know that those are the first things you learn then what prompted you to post a thread asking if you are a hardo? I am telling you, you are not a hardo, you have just looked at the basic section of the 400 questions. Jesus what is this new generation!
You're not a hardo
The quality of interns are just incredibly shit on the whole. I have no idea why with all the free content available how people cant know the basics. Somehow these shitters still make it through to internships.
DEI is partially to blame.
Or, since anyone with a pulse can do the job, let’s hire people we’d could tolerate sitting next to on a long flight to California
The Americans on here don’t understand how piss poor the standard of a “spring intern” usually is - 60% of classes are filled with diversity springs from non-finance backgrounds that said they “like the stock market” in their telephone interviews
You’re not a hardo, these are all basic concepts, it’s more the standard around you is probably a joke
To give an anecdote, I was at a conversion AC for my BB spring last year and I remember a guy (LSE Econ student on the diversity stream) was literally googling the formula for WACC 15 mins before his technical interview lol
LOL sounds like DB
It was DB hahahaha
Quality was so horrific HR stopped giving everyone the AC after like 15 people converted (of 100) and now hand them out selectively
You'll know you're a hardo if you have a modicum of self-awareness. Based on what I've seen with both junior and senior banker personalities, you're probably not going to know
Congrats on Santander spring week
Basic stuff youre not a hardo, its more so the fact that the process for most of these springs doesnt really have anything to do with technicals - furthermore firms take a good interest into non-finance students.
The truth is that they just look for decent profiles who are interested. Technicals can be learnt by anyone eventually
When you ask “How Do You Know If You’re A “Hardo”?”
We got Spring Week participants knowing basic CorpFin and thinking they’re hardos before GTA 6
hardo final boss
This post was brought to you by a diversity spring week collector
IB is a trend now. thats why you have all these social science students from these apparent "targets" going to spring weeks. I believe we will see spring week offer rates drop significantly once the banks realize, that these people have no actual desire to work these ours and jobs. People just apply cuz everyone is applying at this point.
It’s just a fast track to decent money and semi-interesting career for those who didn’t want to be an engineer, doctor, or lawyer
They already have tbh. 5-10 years ago SWs were seen as a fast track straight to a SA i.e. old career advice says to get a spring then you'll get a summer etc. Nowadays nearly all SWs have sub 50% conversions with most sub 25% conversions and are more or less glorified ACs.
Did one of those bank programs (similar to spring weeks but in the US) for a top-BB. Many of the kids in my program were learning all those concepts for the first time, some of them were even computer science or engineering and had no idea about what it was all about.
Anyway, they got the summer offer and I didn’t. So don’t judge a book by its cover and think that you are just better than everyone, maybe they just don’t like to express their knowledge out loud.
LOL. Prob a troll post, but if it’s not:
-remember many kids come from liberal arts degrees or start finance later. You don’t know who the hardos are until it’s 3am and something needs to get done and a person doesn’t flinch about working another 2 hours.
Agree this is essentially a good hardo KPI. I couldn't stomach that personally. I was fine with it the first year or so but the consistent 2-3AM nights made me bitch like crazy. I had good rapport with anybody because I was doing a good job, I was just incredibly against working long hours every freaking day.
On the other hand I observed colleauges - and till this day I don't know how they do this - consistently work 3 AM + nights (say 3.30-4.00) WITHOUT FLINCHING AN EYE. I would be furious if I had to work those hours for more than one night but there were the ones who took this with a joke .. "oh hoho, yesterday went a bit longer than expected again, hohoho".
I just can't. I need sleep.
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