How does the VP -> D -> MD promotion work?
Have been trying to understand the dynamic more. It seems to me that VPs are just super duper good analysts and MDs are super duper good salesmen.
How does the transition work? Once a VP makes director, do they focus on managing the MDs clients? Do they also start trying to bring in their own? Does a D have to prove he is able to bring in clients to make MD? Or do they just make MD and are then expected to bring in clients?
My guess was that Ds would source and pass to MDs, and if they could do that well then they’d make MD but idk
I’m an analyst and am close to two VPs and they’ve both told me that VP years are the easiest to coast and hardest to get promoted. At this point, you’re on more accounts than you can keep track of. You’re constantly “getting smart” on projects last minute so you can get a couple of talking points in during client meetings. You need to be an absolute champ at managing expectations up and down the chain. Know exactly what your MD wants and communicate those instructions clearly to your AN/ASO so they don’t fuck over your Friday or weekend. Meanwhile, they need to get in front of the client somehow and start building their own relationships with them. To answer your question directly, they told me it’s a combo of the number of meetings you’ve had with clients, the quality of those discussions and ultimately the amount of revenue you can help your MD generate. It’s a tough balance, and that’s why sometimes you see VPs following rainmaker MDs to other shops, so they can build their own rapport in the industry.
From an analyst standpoint, the best VPs I worked for knew how to get the messaging right, knew all the relevant logos to put on a page, told me exactly which drives to look into (prior decks to leverage) to save my time. Maximum took 2 turns, if that, once the deck reaches the seniors.
The worst VPs, every pitch meeting was the most important. Needed to be done ASAP. Took many turns, late nights, made us go go down rabbit holes for some stupid TAM figure for no reason. Then they played optics in front of the seniors to play it off like they did all this work for them.
Is it frustrating? Absolutely. But at the same time, it is a tough job. You’re early / mid 30s. Probably thinking about settling down and having kids at some point, and you gotta make a decision for yourself. Do you want to gun for MD someday, make good money but possibly be an absentee parent? Miss out on important life events? Keep your partner waiting year in and out?
A lot of the MDs in their 40s and 50s I see still operate at the whim of their job. Admins and juniors putting calls / meetings on their calendar. They have no choice but to attend them and provide their advice. It’s valuable work if you’re into it.
Some of these VPs know they will be forever VPs and are happy with it. They know their role and don’t want to do anything more. They’ll coast from one bank to another until they call quits one day. Can probably live a good life with financial security, but probably not a lavish lifestyle. That is the choice they make.
It’s hard to come to terms with this when you’re a junior working at 2am, but the reality is 80% of the people in this industry are just surviving. Everyone is fighting for a piece of their life, even the VPs and directors, and you can’t blame them looking out for themselves. Not in this industry. I know I just went on a long tangent, but truly this job is just a lot of difficult choices and sacrifices along the way up, and you have to ask yourself all the time, is that worth it to you.
Why can’t VPs live a lavish lifestyle? Don’t they pull around 300 - 400k (including bonuses)
that's how much associates make. VPs make 500k on the light end and Ive seen VPs make 850k on the high end
You can if you're single or a DINK.
But VP comp (or even D) in NYC or London doesn't get you that far if you have a family, especially if your spouse is no longer working. The added cost of childcare, private schools, larger home will eat up most of your comp.
Some thoughts on this one, as someone that started out as an intern almost 15 years ago. Ultimately, the reason the VP -> MD jump is hard is that the strategy that gets you to VP is NOT the strategy you need to succeed as a D/MD. Getting to VP requires supporting your boss(es) with everything they need to do their job, which is essentially the analytical and content work needed to bring in revenue.
Want to make the jump? Start thinking like your boss does. This means:
These questions may seem contrary to banking culture - but that’s EXACTLY why so many people don’t make it.
It’s unclear to me what it means to be at the D level? Are you going to be promoted or is it a holding pattern? Why not try to jump from D to MD at a new shop
I bet you love jumping from D to D, fuckin' queer.
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