Hi! Pretty straightforward question. What are the top groups in London IBD in terms of exit opps? While I realise that, unlike in NY, groups don't matter as much in London, there are still some groups from different banks that are considered top tier, JPM Leveraged & Acquisition Finance comes to mind. Would be interested in general rankings and maybe also top 1/2 groups per bank (BB+RS/Laz) Thanks in advance!
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The ones that I know: GS: TMT/I JPM: TMT, Diversified Industrials DB: LevFin, Industrials Roths: Consumer and Retail, Healthcare, RX MS: Tech CS: Levfin/Sponsors
I doubt DB's groups are still top-tier
I agree with you. But those two groups at DB will probs still get you a couple of MF interviews and from then on it will be up to you.
Tbh, some names are a bit surprising on that list. E.g., M&T is usually considered the top group at MS (despite Tech still being top), so is LAF at JPM. To my knowledge, RS is not top tier in RX (PJT/HL are)
What about GS FIG/CRH? How would you rate the EMEA M&A groups at MS, BAML and Citi?
GS has split CRH into C&R and HC. FIG is top notch at GS although most exit to other stuff than vanilla PE (ie HF/SS). M&A at MS is very well regarded. M&A at BAML has some great PE exits although not the best group there. Cannot comment on Citi for M&A but Citi is very good in HC recently.
M&A top at MS and BAML. Nat Res top at citi and BAML
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Reputation of MS CR and HC?
Also with regional teams e.g. UK&I
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Did BAML take over MS' HC reputation? Seen they did quite few big pharma deals recently. Not sure about HC services/Med devices
UK&I in MS also do Corporate Broking which some analysts don't want to do at all, so that is something to take into account.
Like the above poster said, CR is an average team in MS and HC is quite good, work with a lot of the big European Pharma companies and have a solid culture.
In MS, M&A and Tech are the most well renowned, probably followed by M&T and maybe NatRes. They also have the best Transport team in EMEA.
Would argue that M&T is actually above Tech
So is this just weaker relative to its other groups or industry as a whole? (focusing on CR)
If the latter, does this affect the dealflow and the deals they are on? (understand this may require some inside knowledge)- I know they've closed some big deals but is that purely from brand name and ability to provide some financing or is it the lack of relationship with companies?
Can echo that the Transportation team at MS is a hidden strength. They dominate a lot of the space globally since they are one of the few dedicated teams to the space globally. Most firms group them under Industrials, so when competing for mandates they have an edge as they are hyper focused on this
So what would you all say are maybe the best (top 5) groups in London? (mainly in terms of exit opps)
GS TMT, GS FIG/CRH, MS M&T/Tech/M&A, JPM LevFin/TMT/Industrials + PJT RX (it's general for the first year but after that RX is better than M&A) if you also look at more SS/HF/Credit type roles
Very hard to break it down to 5 because these groups will be considered pretty similar and make up the majority of MF associates.
Also, bank trumps group. Is TMT at GS better than Industrials, probably? You will still have excellent opportunities coming from any GS group though, and nobody is going to decide based on factors like that.
Is MS HC not on par with Tech/M&A? It's still one of the top teams at MS. You think it would be difficult to go from MS HC to MF PE?
Would you say that one is better off going to a not-so-sexy group at GS/MS/JPM rather than PJT/EVR/LAZ in London?
Thoughts on places like HSBC / BNPP / MacQ / Barcs ?
BNP good in France, Bar in UK, Maq good in infra. Wouldn’t consider any of them “top group”. would pick up BAR hands down
Test
So overall, would it be better to choose an average group at a top BB, such as MS C&R/BMG, or a "top" group at a mid-BB (Citi NatRes, CS LevFin/Sponsors) when looking for exit opps?
If CS LevFin take it all the way - exits are on par with top groups at top BBs...
How about top groups at BAML and Citi?
Does anyone happen to know which banks have already placed summer interns in groups, and which banks are still in the process of doing so?
JPM done, GS/Jefferies still pending not sure about others. BAML is rotational.
MS still pending, answers should be out before EOM
how is group allocation done at MS?
I don't think that BAML is rotational because in previous years they've operated a pooled system for summer interns in IBD. In capital markets at BAML it's nonrotational.
You are right that there is an intern pool. Yet, given that you are basically able to structure the program depending on your preferences, it is a rotational program for most people without the pressure of having to go through group selection
Don't take what you read here too seriously, sounds like a bunch of undergrads giving advise to more undergrads
WSO in a nutshell
maybe you two could help then if you have any good info?
Agreed, the best way to get an impression on how teams perform is to reach out directly to current analysts. A lot of the advice on these boards isn’t accurate.
This would work in an ideal world, but most current Analysts will of course tell you that they work in a strong team with a great culture, unless you know them really well.
JPM TMT had some crazy exits last 2 years. If I remember correctly they were as follows - HIG PE - KKR PE - TPG PE - TPG special sits (2x) - Silverlake PE - Blackstone tactical opportunities - Carlyle special sits - Oaktree PE - Summit Partners
This is not the full list but gives some insight hopefully. Also I agree with others, GS TMT/I & FIG, JPM TMT & DI and MS M&A, Tech and M&C are probably the top ones
To add on this:
Someone from JPM DI had a really great exit to Carlyle Chemicals recently
Does previous PE experience matter for exit opps? For example, is an applicant from Citi/BAML with Large Cap PE internship(s) seen more favourable compared to someone from GS/MS/JPM without any or does it at least compensate for the difference in prestige?
Bump
Usually past PE internships don't really matter. Spoke to a Partner at an UMM EU Fund (CVC/Ardian/EQT/BC Partners...) and they heavily favour the top3, and by a lot. In some cases they specify to HH that they want 80%+ candidates from the top3. Although if you have great deal exp - you'll usually get good looks as HH usually throw one from every other bank with languages that match in the process.
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Sorry to ask so many (doesn't actually matter but more intrigue and curiosity)
Top groups at Lazard?
No real standout team, most/nearly all would be solid. For the same reason as RS (top bank in France), they are good in HC (Sanofi etc.). Also strong in consumer, lead adviser on some of the recent mega deals. Not sure about TMT given that it is run (partly) out of Paris afaik. RX is top-notch. Keep in mind that you do two 1-year rotations for your analyst stint meaning that group selection is arguably less important.
http://www.angovepartners.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/2018-Move-Repo…
You are welcome.
thanks! Do you happen to have it over previous years as well or for other sectors on the buy-side ie credit/HFs? A year is sometime not very representative - thanks!
this is done using LinkedIn
What should they use? BoardEx? Cold call every professional and ask? Of course is based on LinkedIn and it is not fully comprehensive but it gives you a clear view of which banks placed the best last year.
Is JPM the BB with the best work/life balance in London? Heard the analyst classes are huge...
Thoughts on MS DCM for an eventual move into M&A?
Late response but in top of my head CapMarkets is separate from IB at MS...
Indeed
what is the reason that top groups at banks give you better exit opportunities - is it because they have higher deal flow therefore more modelling experience?
No, JPM Lev Fin London is an awful team. You don’t do any of the modelling or corporate finance aspects, all the modelling is handled by the industry bankers. It’s very capital markets driven (they literally sit with the debt capital markets team) and it has an awful culture, i can’t explain how bad the culture is in this team. Majority are your typical French/Italian stuck up people that think they shit gold. Seniors are awful and do not care about your life and the junior side is just as awful. Juniors are snakes that will try make you look bad so they look better. Ask anyone who worked in this team and they will say the same. Gosh I have so many horror stories I wish I could share, I could probably write a book on my experiences there.
Although if ranking purely on a revenue/league basis then yes, it’s an incredibly strong performing team with great revenues.
Moral of the story never join JPM LevFin London.
Source: myself I worked there for a year and couldn’t stand it so rotated to another team.
explains why they always have new acq and lev fin analyst positions popping up on Linkedin
Yep truly awful team, it has the highest leave rate across the entire firm, often with 100% of analyst classes leaving or rotating to another team each year. The junior leave rate is such a big issue that they often have to beg analysts in other teams to rotate into the LevFin team a.k.a. HR calling or sending emails around begging analysts in other teams to rotate into LevFin. Ofc in terms of deal flow, learning and for the CV a lot of analysts in other teams do it, but then after a few months of joining they instantly regret it and try to rotate back out or exit to buyside.
Best team in JPM London is EMEA DI, a top performing team with great dealow and excellent learning opportunities and despite having an extremely hard working environment with long hours, it has a really great culture.
PJT - RX over M&A EVR - FIG, Tech, M&A
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