Im tired of going back into the office, any banks fully remote?
This is so lame being in the office. Even 3 days a week annoys me. The seniors cant let go. They are starting to take attendence now and mandating when we come in we are there "9 to 6".
Originally I was coming in like 1, maybe 2 days a week, and leaving early.
This is offensive after all the hours I did for this firm remotely. We made more money than ever in our history while fully remote.
I'm tired of commuting/the office politics/and the NYC housing costs already. How do I get away?
Any boutique firms doing fully remote? Would love a role where I come in a few times a year/month only.
A few years of fully remote saving a ton of money could allow me to basically stop doing banking and get a chill government job or something. Being near NYC basically prolongs any escape from finance.
Bump
I agree even three days a week seems a lot. At least two hours in the day that you are not paid for are wasted just getting dressed and commuting back and forth all day. Unproductive.
Bump
I'm sure there are a handful of firms that are fully remote, but the majority of relevant banks are moving to a hybrid style. 20-25 hours a week in the office is far cry from the days of needing to be in office 80 hours a week...
Don't care. This is the new normal. 3 days is too much.
Shut up, baby dick!
With all due respect maybe just go for that chill government exit option.
I hear you man. I can't think of a single positive thing about the office besides maybe the snacks and unlimited La Croix. It's three days now, but once these wrinkly handed boomers get their arthritic fingers firmly grasped around your throat, they aren't going to let go. That three days is going to become four and then five. Don't even get me started on the attendance taking... what is this, kindergarten?
I am currently in the office for four days each week. Fingers crossed I'm going to be out of here within a month and working for a company that treats employees like adults. Don't give up the search.
Anything more than 2 is criminal
Might get even worse in the summer as banks push for 5 days in the office once interns start
Already hearing discussions on this :/
NO! I 100% think my bank will make this happen. Plus as a senior associate I'll probably have to manage the interns. FML. they will want supervision over them in the office.....
You work w/ interns as a senior associate really ? Last summer my VPs told me “use the interns as you like, just make sure it makes you productive and you check their work” and they basically never worked with interns directly
While it depends on the bank, I think the group also matters. I can't remember the last I went into the office. I'm at a BB, for context. No one in my group cares.
This is so true. At the end of the day a group is going to be get a bad rep if they push for a single minute over 3 days.
No idea about IB but you could easily find a corp dev job at a tech company and be fully remote. With geographic arbitrage you probably wouldn't be taking as much of a pay cut as you'd think.
with all due respect to people in corp dev; I feel like they often work just as annoying of hours for like 40% of the pay.
they emailing me and hopping on calls late at night and on weekends just like me.
Sounds like a shitty CD team. My VP is explicit to the bankers we work with that we aren't going to do anything besides exchange a few emails over the weekends unless something is really going fucking wrong. I haven't been on a call later than 6PM ever either.
geometric arbitrage ceases to exist once you start getting taxed in multiple jurisdictions. I believe the rule is less than 180 days in a spot, so if you are jumping around that's fine (but then other costs incurred) but if remoting in at a place greater than 180 days you will be hit with double state / country taxation.
Citi opened a new office in Malaga basically outsourcing European analyst work there where people work 40h a week at a pay discount. Look it up
While I'm sure you'll find some place that doesn't care, most senior bankers use the operative phrase of "learning by osmosis" and value in-person work immensely. And honestly I agree. In terms of picking up on cues in meetings whether it's a negotiation or being able to impart some kind of behavioral knowledge to juniors under you, for real development, being in person is crucial, especially in a people-driven industry like banking. I feel like advancing career-wise is heavily behooved by being in the office.
But yeah you're right, commuting sucks major ass and many times feels like when you're just working and not in an interactive situation, it can suck being in the office. I'm just as productive at home and don't have to be in formal attire and can not worry about dealing with people I don't care about at the office.
I just tell our guys that my favorite thing when I was a banker was the tight-knight camaraderie while in the office and the fun I had grinding out good work with people I became good friends with and respected.
But not disagreeing or trying to disprove what you said. I guess just if you're a 3'rd year associate, do you think you'd succeed as a VP+ without having had the training and tutelage of being in person? Especially if clients etc are slowly transitioning back to doing things in person. Curious for your thoughts.
Since I've been in the office 99% of meetings have been calls or zooms(since the client isn't here locally we set up a call).
So there are no "cues" to pick up in person.
Hell, there's an MD I work with you just emails and calls everyone. Can't remember the last time he huddled people up.
I see zero professional advantage to being here since senior bankers just delegate, instruct, and comment all through email and phone.
Not to mention all clients are in different states.
For your last paragraph there are consulting shops that are remote in the context of doing work/deliverables, but client meetings and travels are in-person. It is possible to do both.
That's great - I'm glad that option is there. As I said in my first sentence, I'm sure some firms like that exist but my point was more on the whole.
My (boutique) bank. PM me if you are interested. You can live anywhere you want
And that's precisely what rain-making seniors don't want. They want you in a mid level role always doing the work and putting in the hours while they reap most of the benefits, golden handcuffed to the job due to the HCOL.
And besides them, if anyone think there isn't outside influences putting pressure on top corporations, they're naive. Wall Street and the NYC political machine do favors for each other - this time Wall Street is doing the favor to be in person so the NYC political machine continues to get funded by tax money. If all the companies went remote, politicians wouldn't be able to get their fat checks - and that can't happen.
Then you have the fact that many seniors (C-suite) are heavily invested in real estate around town and and I've heard cases where it's even the same office building! No workers in person means the value of this real estate depreciates, and the monthly cash flows dries up. Who do you think they care about more? You and your preferences or their portfolio returns?
I think your last point is very relevant. Banks are heavily reliant on CRE prices not totally collapsing and if most office spaces are unused due to all companies going remote, these prices will collapse.
this is incredibly depressing reading those above posts since you are so correct...
I recently heard a newly promoted VP at my firm(BB) tell a bunch of juniors "Frankly, I think WFH is complete BS. All analysts and associate should be in the office every day to learn and progress." The Director nearby responded "absolutely, all the people that are important at the bank are here most days by 830am. What do you think they think when you are not there before them, or even worse, not even in the office...."
They then had the gall to complain about how on the "in office" days analysts and associates were coming in late and leaving super early.
"9 to 5 is the minimum...you need to be available.."
This is in front of a bunch of associates and analysts mind you. I bet half started reaching out to recruiters that afternoon.
I honestly was naive enough to think banking and the world might change due to COVID, but unfortunately, some habits are too hard to break.
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