Is CB the best "exit" for a career banker
Currently ASO1 at top EB (EVR/CVP) in NY. Really tired of the hours and the general M&A process. Looking at other alternatives.
Things I don't care about:
- PE/HF exits - don't care for buyside, I want to be working in a banking function long-term but not IB
- modeling experience - got enough of it in the analyst years
- crazy pay - based on my lifestyle, anything above $175k all-in is gravy
Things I do care about:
- better hours than the 80+ hours I'm currently pulling weekly (I don't mind working hard during the week, I hate weekend work)
- more predictable work / hours
- more reasonable personalities than what EB IB hires (no offense but you know what I mean)
- something sustainable in the long-run (trying to make a career here, not just exit in 2 yrs)
Based on all this it seems like CB might be the move. A lot of banks have CB base in-line w. IB or at a slight discount. Sure bonuses are much lower, but if that means I work 40-60 hours per week, that's fine. From what buddies in CB have said you're basically investing the banks balance sheet. I'm hoping that leads to more predictable work and less of "at the mercy of the client." I'm hoping the dynamic is a bit more "we need you, you need us" between the bank and the client. Also I hear there is less fee anxiety from seniors since it's not entirely transaction driven.
For the folks in CB, or have been in CB, what was your experience. Is it really the ideal "exit" for a long-term career at a bank that still pays very well while still being sustainable in other aspects.
Made a post exactly like this before:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/is-corporate-b…
Thank you for the link. It seems the main complaint is boring repetitive work (although I'm kind of looking for that, I've given up finding fulfillment in my career and would rather do the same subset of tasks and become super efficient so I can focus on stuff outside work).
DCM/ECM?
Don’t those groups also sometimes get absolutely slammed too? Saw a chart that compared hours worked/pay and ECM was one of the sweatiest and worst paid
I’m new to this so excuse my ignorance I would consider these groups more intense than CB, although still sounds like a good fit
Think anything in all IB functions there’s a risk of getting slammed. Best you can hope for is better hours on average
Bump. No interest in capital markets?
Tbh I actually would be interested in capital markets, but are the hours really that much better? From an interest standpoint, ECM seems fascinating
If you’re at Evercore, this could be the place to look at. It could be an internal move into one of the teams in Capital Markets Advisory like ECM or Private Capital Markets and Debt Advisory (not PCA). It’ll help you hopefully get your weekends back and can start off with some networking close to where you’re at
You'd go from 80 to 60-65 if going this route. If you want under 60 consistently, CB is the most simple way.
Asset Management is a great gig if of interest, similar to CB hours.
How are the personality types in capital markets?
del
CB still gets railed sometimes, especially at banks that combine it with IB you can easily work 70+ hour weeks (including weekends) and still end up with a sizable difference in pay. I think 40-50 hour weeks would generally be on the low end at BBs, maybe if you went to the lower MMs.
What about something like AM or IR? Some of the BBs have large AM arms too.. also commercial banking if you like being at a bank
Currently CB at a CIB.
To address your 3 points:
1) Yes its better hours on average
2) Yes its more predictable
3) Sustainable - most definitely, you can see people coasting with an easy life/young family at a decent age.
Just do your DD on what teams are sweaty. Some can reach IB hours consistently when they're bunched with IB counterparts, those typically involved with PE lending for example.
That makes sense. Even in Coverage, the most annoying clients are PE. Maybe goal is to avoid interaction/clients that are PE hahaha
I work at a large balance sheet international bank that houses both CB and IB under the same CIB division, but on the coverage side we largely function as corporate bankers. The base pay is the same at the junior level but the bonuses are atrocious relative to any of our IB peers at all levels. But the tradeoff is that my colleagues regularly leave the office to go get hammered with their friends in the city and we barely work on the weekends. Of course we have a few sweaty groups (typically on the product side that do more traditional IB roles), but we are clocking in generally 60 hours. MDs come here to either build out a group or (more commonly) to retire from their sweaty IB career and join us in refinancing RCFs and TLs. Honestly, if you want a good WLB, CB is definitely a solid place to look at. But if you have large aspirations at the junior level and get easily jealous by your IB peers’ compensation, then this may not be the career for you because you aren’t seeing any prestigious exits and will only be able to go to a fancy dinner with your shitty ass bonus.
Working at a BB’s corp banking division (JPM/BofA/Citi) and one of my group’s top bankers did about 5 years at an EB prior to jumping to corp banking.
I spoke to him once about the transition and he told me that one of the reasons he prefers corp banking over his previous IB gig is the fact that he gets to see clients more often which leads to stronger and more enjoyable relationships between the banker and the client - he also mentioned culture as another reason why he made the change.
Regarding hours, analysts and associates in my group probably work between 60 and 70 hours per week.
Hey, was wondering if you knew what comp and exits were like doing CB at JPM/BofA/Citi. Not at all interested in PE (maybe Private Credit later?) and don’t care about maximizing my net worth if it means I get to have a life outside of work (but still want to live comfortably). Does CB at JPM/BofA/Citi allow me to do those things?
Base is 110k w/ bonus being at around 30-50%.
Most people I know become career bankers, but the ones that do exit tend to do all sorts of things. Personally, I’ve seen people jump to IB (both internally and externally), markets, corp dev, and FP&A.
Hours aren’t as bad as IB, but they’re still in the 60 to 70 hours per week range.
I did a LMM IB internship prior to starting my corp banking gig and they worked significantly less hours. That being said, you can probably find better WLB at smaller non-BB banks.
Currently work in CB and want to address the salary. The salaries are NOT in line with IB at most banks with the outlier being Citi that pays its CB and IB same base. Across the street, both at JPM all the way to HSBC, Scotia, BNPP tier banks the bases range from:
Analyst: 95-110/
Associate: 125-160/
VP: 175-195/
D: 220-260/
MD: 300+/
Bonuses also see a large haircut ranging from 30-50%. These are solid numbers and will afford you a great lifestyle while ensuring wlb. The ranges above go from the lowest to highest I’ve seen. BNPP actually pays their associates 150-200, that is the second best I’ve seen after citi which is 175-225 for associates. If you want to name a specific bank I can probably tell you their bases Source: I work in CB, and for 7 months did nothing but apply to CB roles at basically every bank under the sun. Further reference: as analyst 3 I made 110 base + 30 bonus. Moving up to 135 base as associate 1. Hours 40-50. Work maybe one to two weekends a year max.
Edit: sorry for formatting, typing on phone
Any insights regarding global corporate banking at BofA and JPM?
For JPM, I know analysts are at 100-110 and associates 140-160. BAML I do not know because I have literally never seen a corp banking posting from them.
As far as the job goes there’s a far greater delineation between IB and CB at the top BBs. If you’re at a foreign BS bank which typically have very strong CB divisions, there is a lot of crossover between CB and IB given their IB franchises are relatively weak and target MM, to LMM clients, so throughout your job you could be pitching financing one day and then cash mgmt products another day to your large corporate clients, Whereas at JPM/BAML that have very strong IB franchises, the CB folks just do CB (treasury, FX, vanilla lending) and never touch IB stuff.
Interesting numbers. I’ve seen Scotiabank say $150-200 for Associates. Maybe it’s better to not be at a big BB but rather foreign BS bank?
Those numbers aren’t bad if I know I’m working 40-50 hrs per week with an occasional 60-70 and only 1-2 weekends per year like you say
Scotia CB is 135-155 base
these numbers seem accurate to me, maybe slightly higher for comp but on the hours side definitely much better than IB
Interesting.
Im at a mm shop where our group functions like a mix between levfin/cb.
Analyst base goes from $100/115/135
Associate starts at ~$160
VP pay band is between $220-265k
I think this might have to do with us functioning more in line with IBD. When people talk about CB pitching TM products and such, I have no idea what theyre talking about. The most “CB” work we do is some PM work on credits in the portfolio, but most of the work is modeling and building memos.
Hours are chill until deal flow picks up…then it’s a bit rough but significantly better than traditional IBD. Avg 40-50 slow week, 60-70 on live deals.
Good info though, I’ve been considering leaving for the BB pay i hear about at the associate level.
Bump, was wondering if anyone could provide color on CB at Citi/BofA/JPM. How are hours and what does comp look like after the analyst years?
Citi Associate 1 base is 165. Hours obviously ebb and flow like any job, but would say 40-50 for 80% of the year and then maybe 50-60 hours for the remaining 20% of the year
Is it possible to transition to corporate banking from IB during your associate/VP years? If so, what level would you be at in corporate banking?
I’ve done two years in corporate banking and would assume you’d come in same level as IB… frankly the only learning curve is learning the bank’s products that you’d be cross selling (cards lines, hedging, overdraft accounts, etc).. I can’t imagine you would need to take a step back as it wouldn’t take too long to get ramped up and comfortable with CB related products
As a comp data point I shared during last year, my 1st year bonus at Citi was $40k, so all in comp was $150k
Analyst 1?
Yes
How is WLB?
I’m in CB as an analyst at a large non-bb balance sheet bank and am thinking about lateral recruiting next year to try to pivot to DCM or a better bank for CB. How achievable is this?
Thanks and sorry to somewhat hijack this thread; not many threads on cb on wso
Same situation as you and wondering. Does tiering up within CB from like a HSBC/BNPP/Scotia to JPM/BAML achievable? Seems more realistic than IB
anyone have color on Corporate Banking at Barclays?
What would you like to know?
How’s culture, hours, pay, exit ops?
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