Is DEI in IB out of hand? An example
Real life example of how DEI puts non-diversity candidates at a huge disadvantage in IB:
- Person #1: No MBA scholarships, no IB fellowships. Therefore starts IB $200k in the hole due to student loans, give or take a small amount of pre MBA $$$ saved. 730 GMAT, 3.7 GPA.
Person #2: DEI candidate. Received $60k per year in MBA scholarships and a $80 DEI fellowship to join IB, which cancels out tuition. 690 GMAT, 3.5 GPA.
So a DEI candidate with a weaker resume essentially gets paid a net inflow to join IB, while the non-DEI candidate starts off in the hole $200k. This makes a huge difference, especially when considering the effects of compounding etc.
It’s comes to no surprise young men in 2025 are frustrated. Why is no one talking about this? This is of course just one example based on a real situation I know, but I’m sure this happens all the time.
“Why is no one talking about this”
Why is no one outside WSO talking about this
Why would they? Where would you expect this to be reported?
I believe this former television personality and modest business owner/operator has mentioned it a few times recently -
So what bank’s program are you complaining about?
Last year there were only 5-7 of these MBA fellowship programs across the street (including MM banks) and I know at least two cancelled theirs this cycle with the new Trump admin.
DEI bad, now give me SB
I think what society needs is less racism and more sexism. Racism is just silly. I grew up in the 1990s and people got along. It wasn't until the 2010s that all this racial division became a thing. You wouldn't like it if someone judged you just on your ethnic background before getting to actually know you, right? But women in the workplace, that's a bridge too far. I think we can all agree on that
In the good ole days you could count on a glass ceiling to help support sexism.
Ah the good ole days back when you called a woman with one black eye a fast learner and you didn’t need to tell a woman with two black eyes anything as you already told her twice! Back in those times women didn’t need to wear watches as the clock on the stove told time just fine….
Agree times better then…
We need more sexism??
Some top paying firms like Gordon Dyal literally has one woman and that’s the founders wife…
Happens all the time. We need to be more specific about what is prevalent and that is Gender DEI. Prime beneficiaries are women (mostly white) and hence, a lot of rich white men in power will never abolish it as it benefits one of their own. Gender DEI overwhelmingly is supported across the political spectrum. It is part of MD performance KPIs which focus on gender DEI and exclude racial DEI. Many middle-level MDs know that to climb the ladder they need to be perceived as so called leaders and initiate DEI clown show like implementing gender quotas in hiring / promotions, throwing men under the buss in layoffs while saving incompetent women for their DEI quotas. To learn more look up DEI audit reports of banks.
It should be income based DEI ran into too many DEI individuals who attend "Dalton" and "Exeter" that paid full tuition.
Whole heartedly agree. Class and income are major obstacles to breaking into finance, and even bigger obstacles once you do make it and realize there’s a world of soft skills and conduct that anyone middle class and above already knows but you don’t. It’s then a fight for your life to catch up, to make connections, and to advocate for yourself because people are biased and your work alone won’t speak for you.
THIS!!!
On the flip side, you have FGLI White and Asian males transfer from community colleges to cc transfer friendly targets like Cornell and Georgetown, which is a lifetime achievement for them, only for them to be discriminated against by top firms based on their race and gender, and their economic backgrounds will definitely cause them to often struggle in their workplaces.
I have seen so many of the above individuals burn out and give up, which is so sad to see, when you consider their life stories and slowly watch their desire to improve their lot in life dissipate.
Bro must be new around here
Most of those programs are closed as noted. The big determinant is gender, which is most pronounced at top engineering schools.
DEI is a good idea, terrible implementation.
The whole idea of DEI is to find people who never would've had access to these types of careers or resources in the past. Many FGLI students I've spoken to had never heard of IB or S&T before they even graduated. These students are genuinely disadvantaged in the system because they don't have the same guidance as wealthier, more connected students.
However, banks continue to run their DEI programs as sophomore programs and sophomore focused. This is incredibly dumb, because these students you're trying to reach out to likely have never heard of IB until they're much later into their college career, and so they often miss out on the extremely accelerated timelines of banking. I know a good number of people who wanted to do something in CIB/wholesale, but were completely unable to due to the fact they only heard about it in their junior year(which is fucking insane that you can miss the entire timeline in your junior year). These were incredibly bright, talented students who just weren't with the timeline.
So, who does get into these DEI programs? Already well connected, wealthy students who have surface level diversity. This, of course, manages to piss off both non diverse candidates and the people who need these DEI programs the most.
DEI at banks has just failed because those running these DEI programs only care about surface level diversity. They don't care at all about actually creating a diverse workforce that has the differences in viewpoints and experiences. Don't you think IB teams might be enhanced by a more diverse set of socio economic backgrounds? Wouldn't a healthcare team be better served by someone who actually has experienced medicaid?
That's all my own view though. I think it's absurd that we continue to define DEI as simply race, gender, religion, etc. when the most consistent definer of your future success continues to be the zip code you're born into. The reason DEI fails is because it continues to advantage the same group of wealthy elites rather than actually creating a diverse set of individuals working together.
Unfortunately, it seems you never went through any DEI audit reports of leading banks.
Most DEI isn’t implemented through college initiatives. It is in fact through hiring and promotion decisions.
Grow a pair and call out Gender quotas. There is no such thing as religious DEI and racial DEI was banned some years ago. I am unsure you will do this because it won’t fit your agenda and doubt you are capable of putting white women in their place.
When did I say they did? I simply stated that DEI is often defined simply by surface level characteristics. Never said banks recruit based on this. I can't speak to how banks do this, because I haven't worked in a bank since pre covid. It would only be word of mouth.
For one, I said both of these things, but what does it matter? Why does it matter who "benefits" most from DEI? It's a broken program because of the fact it solely focuses on those who know early on that they want to do high finance and not those who actually need it. DEI should be focused on women who never thought about finance because they thought it would be a boys club, or FGLI students who have never heard of IB, not students who are at Harvard and have been planning on GS TMT since high school.
You're under a false assumption that DEI is only through programs, and that there's no hidden agenda or hidden curriculum. It's pretty clear to me that you weren't FGLI or a minority if you actually believe this, because going through college as a minority(Hispanic) with 2 parents who had little idea of college meant I constantly had to figure things out myself. I lucked into things in a lot of ways, but I very easily could've ended up not where I'm at. I know many students who've failed to break in simply because they weren't really aware of the whole song and dance you need to perform to break in, and they never had the connections to people to get there.
Why tf do people have so much hate nowadays. This "us vs them" mentality does nothing to solve the actual issue with DEI. Also, "racial DEI was banned" as if banks have ever cared about something being banned. I still remember the traders on the floor joking about prop trading being "banned" for banks and then placing an order to "pre hedge risk".
My agenda is simply to see that people who are capable of doing great work are given the opportunities to do so. Not to hate on any one group, not to fight people, just to see that the people who need the resources most get them.
Its not terrible implementation. Its implemented exactly as they intended.
Do you think these companies want let alone care for low income individuals of any background from the hood? It was all meant to be for show from the beginning. And execs love it because its such a low effort lever for higher bonuses and to make themselves seem more appealing to the general populace. After all, DEI benefits anyone who is not an asian or white male, which is somewhere around 65% of the US population
I would even exclude the white males. The system was built by them and for them. DEI penalizes Brown / Asian / Arab males specifically, the ones who have been main competition for white men on Wall Street historically.
DEI facilities the mass appeal of white males by being perceived as open-minded to offering women, black / Hispanic men, lgbtq a spot on the gravy train. Prior to these 50% spots in hiring / promotions being handed out to DEI Beckies, these spots were openly competed for and often ended with super hardworking Asian / Brown / Arab men.
i'm so glad this hasn't spilled over to hedge funds given smaller teams and ad hoc hiring. It's such a nightmare. At the end of the day, though, those that are hired and can't cut it will get what's coming to them e.g. no promotion, burned out, etc.
You will be surprised how much they are willing to lower the bar to get them promoted to a VP at least. Like pushing out their competition, reducing their workload, showering them with perks and they still often burn out and quit.
www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/off-topic/dei-rant#comment-3437351
my thoughts have not changed
Brother, MBA associates themselves are a DEI category. What the fuck are you yapping about?
To fully understand the dilemma, add person #3
Person #3: Nepo baby candidate. Paid nothing in tuition for MBA scholarships, got into the MBA program and this job thanks to dad, was already driving a fully paid BMW 7 series on his first day on the job. 690 GMAT, 3.5 GPA (thanks to hundres of thousands spent by mom and dad on test prep, tutors, and best private schools).
Sure, all things equal Person #1 should get the job over Person #2, but I'm happy to see person #2 get the job over person #3.
Those person 3 are the super DEI advocates in reality, to hide their incompetence and sneak his/her daughter in to the firm without actually trying ngl.
Eventually, person 2+3 hybrids wipe out the floor. The prime beneficiaries of DEI are those 2+3 hybrids (e.g, well-off asian/white girls). Your comment is misleading since you are describing as if the current DEI is to empower those who are socioeconomically underprivileged but grinding their ass off. It's the opposite.
100% spot on!
Totally not true. Have seen tons of successful people from each group and tons of failures from each group. If they totally wiped out after getting to the job, I don't think as many people would be bitching about DEI would they? The issue is that they generally continue to perform and continue to fill those spots. That's exactly why people are complaining.
Second, if you really want to get into the details, things are very tough to figure out these days. For example, the resumes of candidate #1 and #3 often look exactly the same. The right school. Great GPA (70% of grades at Harvard are A's. See WSJ article this week), great internships. It can be very difficult to figure out who is really a grinder and who is a nepo baby pushed the whole way by their parents and connections.
In fact, on a resume, the nepo baby might look even better with better internships, more help with tutors etc. You just gotta do your best in a hour long interview to tease who really knows their shit which can be harder than you think when someone has paid for every Wall Street prep class on the planet and has been coached by their MD dad.
Society needs fewer MBA associates
More like we only need Beckies in IB who are competent and justify their spot. No DEI handouts through hiring and promotion quotas. Contrary to the perception on this forum, most senior bankers have MBA and found it super useful.
Found the MBA associate
Thaat's interesting
What do the student loans have to do with anything?
DEI people have access to more scholarships, which allows them to graduate with less loans compared to a non-DEI candidate.
It happens at the undergrad level too; I went to a T10 college on a full ride, and one of my black classmates, whose parents made more money than mine, got more financial aid than me because of a black scholarship.
Yes, my friend who went to Duke, who is a FGLI white male from an abusive family upbringing, had no traction with EB / BB/ Buyside, and had to settle for a regional mutual fund in Charlotte.
By contrast, his sister, who went to NC State, got UMM PE sophomore summer through Girls Who Invest, and then EB TMT IBD NYC for junior year summer.
She got asked way way way easier Qs than he did.
Now imagine what it's like as an Asian male. Over my 7+ years on this forum, I've seen so many posts bashing DEI or diversity programs and if the OP says that they're an Asian male its a barrage of "get over it", "the world doesn't owe you anything", "its you're fault you didn't make it." etc. If OP mentions they're white or doesn't mention it at all? So many sympathy like you see in this thread.
I feel for the Asian/Indian dudes, all the disadvantages of being a minority with not a single benefit in sight.
So true, and if you look at specific Asian cultures like Koreans and Indians, a lot of them have toxic family and cultural systems where their parents expect absolute perfection with no support system to back it up.
Furthermore, Korea was colonized by Japan, as India was by the British, and both races have so many immigrant families with abusive and narcissistic parents who preserve and build intergenerational trauma.
Yet DEI activists can't include Koreans and Indians on the list of marginalized groups as they do Blacks and Hispanics?
Korea and China were enslaved by Japan, as India was enslaved by the British, as Jews were enslaved by the Nazis, and the list goes on, yet DEI activists can only feel sorry for Blacks and Hispanics?
Give me a break.
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