Is IB actually legal?
Hi guys,
I'm a first year in a BB who's been pulling really rough hours needless to say. As a result, I've been pondering lately about whether banks asking employees to pull all nighters, work 100+ hour weeks is actually legal. I'm not butt-hurt and I knew what I was getting into before joining IBD, but out of sheer curiosity; is it actually legal to treat employees like this? I notice on the work contracts they stipulate 40ish hour work weeks. Part of me thinks this is done to avoid litigation. It seems hard to believe employers are allowed to do this. Again, not complaining, just asking out of sheer curiosity (no intention to sue or any of that lol.)
Thoughts?
Following
Yes, it is legal because you are an exempt employee. If you were not exempt, you'd be entitled to overtime pay and other protections. There are plenty of other white collar professions that also fall under the exempt category.
Damn... the US has some shady labor laws. That and the lack of obligatory paid vacation days.
That’s not shady you moron, you clearly are speaking on something you know nothing about. You have all the right to leave whenever you want, if you don’t like the work environment then leave....
Relax it’s clear he doesn’t know because he said he doesn’t know 3 times, you moron
Always the same rote argument: if you don't like it then leave; never try to improve the culture or have a dialogue, just leave. You'll see these working conditions are actually really harming this industry so not talking about it isn't helpful... There's no need to get all heated about it you absolute hardo. The US is also the only first world country with 0 mandatory PTO so yeah it's a bit fucking shady.
Calm down Nigel. Everyone knows that you're a try hard.
What a loser lol
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Ugh dude if you want to circlejerk about how oppressive the USA is land receive a bunch of confirmation bias from Swedish teenagers, you’re gonna want to do that on Reddit and not WSO
Where I think there should sometimes be a debate is the definition of exempt. As I understand, if you're basically using your brain/skills to add value, you're an exempt salaried employee. If you're doing a repetitive task where there is no value add from your input, then you're an hourly employee.
When it comes to tasks like pitchbooks, I think that you're walking a pretty fine line between the definitions of exempt/hourly.
you have either lost touch with reality or are a bottom bucket quality analyst if you think you add so little value that you're performing non-exempt caliber work
There was a tiny boutique where one analyst successfully got a court to agree to look further into the premise that the work they were doing there was not value-additive enough to qualify as exempt. I think they ended up settling out of court.
if every analyst / associate unionized right now, we'd be able to negotiate for better hours for a few months before they inevitably replace us all
In my experience most juniors in IB are desperate for success and terribly submissive so the odds of this happening are near naught. + the thousands of hardo that will take your spot stat and eat shit without blinking an eye means you are so replaceable. I agree that the industry has some questionable ethics though; I am sometimes baffled banks are allowed to treat employees like they do.
I’m not sure about hardos waiting to take your spot. Especially now during COVID times my BB is having real trouble replacing analysts /associates or even VPs in multiple teams given attrition is way higher than replacement. There were analysts and associates who left a year ago and are still not replaced. People are simply not enjoying their time and bonus is crap. More and more emphasis on wellbeing. Times are changing
I would crawl naked through razor blades to get a spot at a BB.
I just went through associate recruiting and accepted at BB, but it seems that offers were flat or down. Why is that the case given what I'm reading on here? I was told by most people involved that it was a tough year for recruiting. Why aren't banks pushing for larger summer classes to help replacement?
There are thousands of hardos wanting to break in at Analyst 1 / MBA Associate 1, but at Analyst 3 or Associate 3 the story is completely different.
Juniors in IB are far less replaceable than these firms or others would have you believe, especially after the bad publicity the industry received after the Goldman deck. By continuing to propagate this idea, you’re helping them hold onto power.
I’m not in IB but I have followed discussions on this site for a while. I think you all should speak out more and maybe even contact the media to put some pressure on the industry. Honestly, this is probably the closest you all have ever gotten to actually forcing some change. I remember a while back some analyst (SA i think) in london died after working like 30 hours straight or something. There was a slight shift in peoples thinking and some minor changes, but nothing major. This feels a bit different. Hope you all stand up for yourselves and force the industry to make some adjustments.
Side note, username checks out
no offense man but this reads like people who tell women in domestic violence situations to just walk out. easier said than done and an outsider will never understand all the forces at play that prevent such a simple solution.
Aw yes comparing working a job that pay you 1% wages by your own free will is comparable to Scum of the earth beating their partners. Please enlighten us more about how these two are so comparable.
It's funny because in the UK we have to waive our working rights to do the job. We have no legal basis to complain about hours.
We don't have any useful rights to begin with.
Pre-Brexit you had to sign away your rights under the EU Working Time Directive... not sure if that has been replicated in UK legislation.
also considering the fact that GS is supposed to be the best bank (most prestigious, best work etc) but they have the balls to pay analysts the least, minimal benefits, etc. is kinda fucked up. Most other industries, the top players pay and offer the most, it's part of all of our fault for sucking dicks for supposed exit opps
Is that GS fault for hiring people for less if they can or is employees working for less than they "deserve"?
You see the same thing in medicine too. A lot of the top hospitals pay less due to the prestige. In medicine, a lot of rural hospitals are forced to pay way more to attract talent. Some doctors in rural areas can live like kings because of the increased pay and lower cost of living.
Ah yes working 100+ hours is legal just like getting paid well into the 1% is legal too.
7 days *8 hours sleep = 56 hours
7 * 24 = 168 hours in a week
168-56 = 112
So, you can sleep 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, and work 100 hours, and still have 12 hours (1.5 hours a day) for your personal time (20 minutes exercise, 20 min shower, meals, etc..) every day. This is just an exercise in personal time management...and your ability to not excessively stew in your mental anguish.
Also, 100 hours weeks, while they happen...are not the norm forever...they come and go....80 hour weeks are more the norm.
You have to remember that bankers are also comped for the extra time they spend at the office.
Reminds me of the economic models we study in college. Highly idealized. Your assumption is that we have control over when work is allocated, that we can be switched on 100% at all times (sleep immediately, wake up then 20 minute shower, 20 minute exercise, 20 minute eat, work 15 hours non-stop, sleep immediately, rinse and repeat.) This is not true, much of the work comes throughout the day, forcing us to wake up early, go to bed late at night, unpredictably scramble to get our chores, eating, exercising, showering done, while being ready to drop what we are doing and reply to emails or fire-drills quickly. If your assumptions were correct we would be a lot less sleep deprived than we currently are. We're also humans so stress and exhaustion make us more inefficient.
Turkish soldiers will take a 20 minute cat nap in the middle of an all day march...and it refreshes them. you should try this when you have a chance
Yeah except weekends will inevitably be chiller and so you end up sleeping 3-4 hours M-F if you're actually pulling a 100 hr week and then weekends maybe you work 11am to 10pm, but you still feel like crap. No human can actually be productive 100 hrs per week so you end up just feeling depressed and zombielike. I don't know what my point is exactly maybe just that if you're pulling 100 hr weeks regularly, there's only so much time management can do for you. You're gonna burn out.
Whenever you have this thought creeping in about your office gig, just remember Asians in all parts of the world work for way below the minimum wage without complaining.
Puts things into perspective quick.
I still don't understand the complaining. It is well known the hours are terrible in return for insane comp. What exactly is the problem?
"Hello judge I am making well over 100k, maybe even close to 200k, right out of college and I feel abused by my employer working 100 hour weeks."
I bet almost anyone working at Goldman can move to an easier role at a different company for less comp.
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