JP Morgan
I'm curious about one thing: what exactly places JPM one notch below GS and MS? Is it the quality/pedigree of the bankers? Is it the transactions they work on? Is there some unexplainable mystique about GS and MS that JPM just doesn't have?
It seems like bankers from GS,MS and JPM are all top notch and have that traditional blue-blood pedigree, and they are currently ranked 1,2, and 3 in M&A activity this year while JPM leads the league tables in total fees, so I guess I'm confused about why everyone talks about MS and GS as if they are in a different league.
I'm not trolling or anything here, I'm genuinely curious. Also, does the perceived superiority of GS and MS mean that JPM analysts have a (relatively) difficult time landing PE jobs?
thanks for the info
I live with americans, they tell me it is the history of the firm... and the quality of senior management... In 2003 everybody was talking about GS,MS,ML.. nobody talked ever about JPM.. some even asked what is JPM ? One of those commercial banks? Then they have grown their business since the last few years....At GS / MS / ML there are still loads of rain makers with strong relationships and experiences....JPM 10 years ago = Wells Fargo now
You mean like what a terrible terrible job Jamie Dimon has done over the last few years?... Or in general being known to have one of the best management teams in the industry?
But yeah, it's because historically it's always been MGM (Merrill Lynch, GS, MS). In this industry however, things change very fast. 10 years ago, investment banking existed in a very different form than it does today. Technology, global connectivity, competition makes this industry particularly prone to rapid changes in "prestige". Heck, just a few years ago I knew people who would've given an arm and a leg to work at Citigroup or UBS.
I would say that given the recent comparative performances, while GS still dominates the "prestige" ranking of IB players, that for many, JP Morgan is seen on par with MS, if not as a better firm in terms of overall reputation.
Also keep in mind that Morgan Stanley was spun off from JP Morgan Chase in the 1930's/40's due to Glass Steagall, and it wasn't until the repeal of G-S that allowed all the commercial banks (Citi, JPM) to have IB platforms.
@Edit: Regarding PE placement - a lot of whether a firm/team places well is how many alums are in that shop from that BB/team. One reason why GS/MS places so well is because well - there's a ton of GS/MS alums in those places to start with. So while it's not necessarily a measure of "quality" of the analysts, for the foreseeable future, coming in from GS/MS will be advantageous.
You know, when I first read that, I was a bit confused... but after further consideration, it's actually a really good comparison.
Being the only bank to be able to post a profit every quarter during the financial crisis says a lot too.
Hey good question. I just signed my JP Morgan contract. I would be in round 2 with GS (out of 3) but I will not attend the last interviews. The reason is that I think JP Morgan has the brightest future ahead. GS profits were terrible and the company has lost much of its reputation. JP Morgan on the other hand has been posting stellar numbers for the past years. Also I liked the people at JPM the best. The guys I talked to at GS didn't seem cooler or smarter at all, just geekier. If there is an explanation, than it's surely that JP Morgan is not a pure investment bank, something which will however be an advantage in the future. I think that JP is the place to be right now.
hey where did you sign the contract for? also, is it summer or FT?
pm me if you want to keep in private
I don't necessarily agree with your reasoning but it's interesting that you chose to forgo Goldman. Most people on this board would blindly choose GS over anything. I hope you land at a great group at JPM.
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A good analyst will be a good analyst whether it's at GS or JPM - I honestly think the difference is exaggerated, if you're talking about the level of GS, MS, and JPM...
During my interviews, I found the people at JPM way cooler and more down to earth than at Goldman. I got similar vibes from CS, those guys were really cool.
Hmm it's always surprising how quickly this industry can completely reinvent itself. JPM's definitely a bank on the rise, nobody will argue there.
Michael Jordan -> Basketball Tiger Woods -> Golf Michael Phelps -> Swimming Harvard -> Universities
Goldman Sachs -> IBD
Your welcome.
Top-notch people at JPM from my experience, likeable too in general. Obviously things are different group to group and city to city, but I certainly don't place them below MS/GS internationally. Maybe specifically for associate recruiting in terms of PE, but really for nothing else.
I never saw JPM below GS and MS either... obviously Goldman has a little more prestige but if I had to rank the 3 banks, that would be a very tough exercise. Right now I would even rank JPM 1st because of the deal flow they've seen this year, but it would be a close call.
Also I don't get why banks that deal in things other than IB get less prestige than strictly-IB banks... if you really wanna be picky about it and you want a straight up pure M&A firm, go work at Lazard and stop worshipping Goldman (both solid firms but at Lazard you get way more hands-on M&A experience). I don't even know what i'm saying it's 5am dammit
I think the key thing to take away is that things change very quickly in terms of the 'hot thing on the block'. Just look at whats happening to MS FICC or CS, a couple years ago noone was talking about CS in the way they are now.
Reputations are sticky. Ten years from now, regardless of how well Wells Fargo is doing, I doubt any of you here will see them as prestigious, but you will see JPM that way. Think about it, the people entering finance when JPM really started displaying solid performance (2006/2007) will still only be at the associate level at the moment i.e. not senior enough to be influential in hiring decisions. 5/6 years from now when they will be, maybe we'll see better placement of JPM analysts. There's also the alumni thing, but that will take even longer to fix.
Above is only relevant in IBD btw. S&T "reputations" are more market driven.
Now here's a question. We all knew Drexel Burnham and DLJ, those guys were top notch players and are now gone obviously alongside Merrill (now BAML) and LEH (now BARC). So the landscape changes all the time. C was a rockstar in M&A 5 years ago, still strong but not as much so. Is JPM going to stay a top player, or is it's position at the top unstable.
Just wanted to make sure that you were asking specifically about banking, because the market side looks very different. It would be more of a question of Equities vs. Fixed Income. Also, MS would not really enter that equation anymore, at least not at this time.
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