M&A Graduate program with a phd in financial math
Hi,
i am currently finishing off my phd in financial math and was wondering what my chances are to get into a graduate program (preferably europe) for m&a.
Whenever i talk to hr or even bankers at careers fairs they straight away stick me into the markets box . No way to get them talking about m&a. they just don't get that i do not want to do markets. However, in their defence and without being arrogant i know that i have a good fit for a markets career.
if i get accepted into a m&a graduate program will i start as analyst or associate? i have heard or read somewhere that i would start as an associate which would make the application more attractive as i would skip the analyst stage. it that true?
thanks in advance for you comments.
what school did you graduate from
You gotta be stupid to slave away 90 hours a week in M&A while you could be in markets.
i did my phd at a french school in paris (Uni Dauphine). I think it is not that bad for maths.
@mxc: i just want to see what ibd is like. i think that it will give me the opportunity to see different stuff. plus the exit opps seem much more diverese than in markets. and if i don't like it i go back into markets. i am still young so i can afford it, i guess.
I have to ask, but are you a masochist? Doing a PhD, then IB, is like choosing to go through bootcamp twice. This is really something you should have figured out before the doctorate.
This is why you will have trouble getting into IBD. Banks know almost nobody likes being an entry level banker. It is extremely time intensive, often repetitive work. For somebody with a PhD, the analysis in IB will be trivial. Banks realize this, and they don't want to hire somebody who will quit.
Also, you are trying to break in at a weird place. I am guessing you don't have much work experience, so becoming an associate would be at stretch. But you are also at least 3 years older and vastly more educated than the analysts. They don't know what to do with you.
@west coast rainmaker: a phd is not that bad and i am not trying to boast. i enjoyed it although it can be tough at some points.
i have done a credit internship, and spent a summer interning at a swap desk so i guess i can rely on some experience. also, i am not considering applying in the us but rather want to stay in paris or move to london. hope that this changes something.
the challenge is of course to make them believe that m&a is my life and nothing else. i started reading investment banking by pearl and rosenbaum and will try to get my head around the different models.
so would i really start as an analyst? during my studies in london i always heard that phds start as associates in m&a.
I was just guessing about the analyst thing, because an associate with no work experience would not go over well...the only PhD's I have seen in IBD are a very few senior guys that came from academia.
Don't approach it like an exam. You undoubtedly understand the concepts after a PhD, and the actual models used day-to-day will be much different than the stuff in textbooks.
Instead, network like mad. Get unpaid internships if you are really dedicated to this. A PhD almost makes you "too smart" for banking. It might be easier to get a more quantish, but still FO, job and network into IBD. Maybe trading, or ER? At this point, you really need work experience that does not scream "egghead".
Really, you are in a very unique situation. I can't really say I am qualified to give you advice; I have never met anybody trying to do this.
Thanks for your comments, west coast rainmaker.
The book i read is just to inform myself in more detail and i think it doesn't harm if i know some stuff as i did not take any business courses etc.
I would guess that the move from trading or ER into m&a is even harder. no?
What i like about m&a is that you have both analytical work and social interaction ( i.e. client interactions, but this is maybe for later).
Also, I just think that the exit opps in m&a are way more interesting and diverse than in trading for example. That is also quite important for me.
As I said before, I only consider applying in europe. Does this difficulty for phds also arises in europe?
You cannot get onto a grad programme with a PhD, period. There are a few traders with PhD's where I work but they all sit on the Hybrids desk and even there the PhD is not a prerequisite. In M&A forget about it, going from high level financial math to correcting power point presentations and plugging in numbers to an excel sheet would be soul destroying.
Would you ever consider being a Quant? You have the perfect background for it.
To be honest, I am quite tired of maths.
I find the modelling intersting but it doesn't really passionate me. That's why i don't consider being a quant.
As i want to stay in europe and the political environment is currently pretty hostile towards trading and hf , I wonder whether trading is really wise to persue? Might be prohibited or largely reduced.
Basically, I am looking for a job in finance, that allows me to have client interactions, that is stimulating, challangin and dynamic. Also i would also like to have a good set of exit opps as i do have to admit that i have a short attention span and get bored pretty quickly. Any ideas?
I'll bet you would enjoy any macro (rates, fx) structured products desk. You need to understand the pricing models but not know how to make/code them, and the role has much better hours, is far more intellectually stimulating, and is not as fast paced/stressful as a flow desk.
thanks for your comment.
I was actually also thinking of some macro oriented work as i really enjoy politics, economics and economic policy making. but once you start in this area are your exit opps not just hf? I might be not very well informed but it seems that the exit opps in trading are quite slim.
Well yes, macro HF is most obvious route. But remember the only reason people obsess over exit ops in IBD is because the job blows, people actually enjoy S&T. Any macro work could definitely segue you into macro research which is heavily based in economics, any form of asset management, etc.
It's true, i don't see myself working my ass off all life and give up my girfriend just to be in IBD. I am really hesitating between markets and IBD for that reason. but don't get me wrong, for me markets seems to be like more for a "lonely cowboy" as in my view of the world social interactions are limited and you work on your own p&l. enlighten me if i am wrong
Also, I am really fond of the idea of working in a corporate developement dept. in a large company, like ge or siemens. and the golden route would be to "enjoy" 2-3 years in ibd. but that would be a high price.
S&T is very much a team effort, especially in structured products as it takes more than one person to structure, trade, sell, and hedge a deal. People on trading floors tend not to be too introverted...
Commodi culpa voluptatum voluptatum in. Vitae fugiat eius quibusdam qui rem officia. Repellendus quia soluta est. Optio ex perspiciatis sapiente inventore.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...