Met an SEO guy today...

uhhhh I can find 2 kids who are high school dropouts who are beasts. If on average the seo kids are worse than the normal non-seo kids who got those same positions, then they're no good.

by what criteria are you basing this white?

80% get offers, although that includes all divisions such as IT, Philanthropy, Corporate Law... I've heard a lot of banks only extend offers to ~30% of SEO interns...

The requirements to get into SEO are not difficult as a bank. The process might be more difficult (interviews...etc), however the fact of the matter is that 80% of SEO interns wouldn't even have been given the chance to ever get an ibank interview, since usually they are from non-target schools and have lower GPAs.

I'm all for the program though... banking shouldn't just be filled with rich elitist whites

Last time I checked, my bank has a CEO from one of the groups that SEO hires. My desk has at least 1/4 of its members from these minorities. Third, most of the people that get into SEO from my school are Latin Americans of pure European descent, or something like 1/16 Latin American, so that they look and have similar backgrounds to caucasians. Additionally, many of these students come from families earning multiple millions a year and they would definitely not have a problem getting a job on their own.

Finally, SEO tends to have a very strong presence on many non-target or semi-target campuses. Hence, when nearly everyone who actually makes it into banking or trading from your school, or makes it into firms like Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley, went through SEO, Caucasians start to have an issue with the program. Tons of people at places like Harvard have never heard of SEO because they have no use for it.

If SEO wants to be taken legitimately, they should limit their program to African Americans and Latinos, and have means testing, or possibly just go by income. Then I would totally support their mission. Still, I fail to see the point, as if someone is sufficiently motivated and of the sort of background SEO recruits, he or she would have no problem getting a job in the first place.

mrbubba Still, I fail to see the point, as if someone is sufficiently motivated and of the sort of background SEO recruits, he or she would have no problem getting a job in the first place.

Unfortunately, the world we live in is NOT a perfect meritocracy - hard work and intelligence isn't always sufficient to get you ahead in life! I can name many people at Harvard who wouldn't be there if it wasn't for their last names and family connections!! Furthermore there's still racism and sexism in this world, some if it can be seen on this forum (this topic alone has definitely opened up a can of worms).

Secondly, a lot of the 'evidence' mentioned in this debate so far is merely anecdotal. I'm quoting official statistics given by the banks themselves. Maybe someone knows a SEO alum that was crap or had bad grades or whatever; that still doesn't speak for the whole program though.

Aspiringmonkey wrote that 80% get hired because banks are afraid of discrimination law suits. Well if that was so, would banks volunteer to take that risk by participating in such programs? Obviously not, they would just stay out of them!!

Some claim that SEO entry requirements aren't difficult, in fact they says they are easier than getting into the bank itself. I ask those to check out the SEO website itself and look at the requirements before making such claims.

Finally, I find it amazing that in a global industry which is at least 90% white male; the majority can still feel so threated and wronged by a few 100 new recruits coming into the industry through programs such as SEO!

As a side note:

The whole issue of target schools is that they become twisted way to prop up the aristocracy. Wall Street big wigs go to IVY league colleges, after 20 years their kids go there too, Daddy makes a nice contribution and the kids get a top-notch IVY league degree. This degree supposedly reflects a seal of excellence, a badge of honor symbolizing the wonderful ability of the kids. The kids apply to
Wall Street banks and are interviewed by IVY alumni and the whole cycle starts again.

I'm not against IVY league colleges, the education is good, but my point is that life isn't always fair and not everyone gets what they deserve!!

[quote=Bossman23]Finally, I find it amazing that in a global industry which is at least 90% white male; the majority can still feel so threated and wronged by a few 100 new recruits coming into the industry through programs such as SEO![\quote]

Okay, who is throwing out anecdotal statistics now?

90% white male, huh? Not sure which banks you've visited recently, but on my trading floor white American males are the minority. By a nicely-sized margin.

You are right about one thing though, finance, IS truly a global industry, which is why dividing the world into white, black, and Hispanic is so outdated. I'm much more concerned with how many nations, continents, and cultures are represented on my desk than I am about how many "black" people we have. This isn't the 1960's anymore.

Everyone in the US who is getting so caught caught up about the number of blacks and Hispanics is completely missing the bigger picture, and serves as yet another example about how ignorant our country is and how we always view issues through the American perspective. 20% Black, 10% Hispanic, and 70% white is NOT "diverse".

SEO is quite competitive, I didn't even get an invite to the first round.

Bossman23 also said...

Unfortunately, the world we live in is NOT a perfect meritocracy - hard work and intelligence isn't always sufficient to get you ahead in life! I can name many people at Harvard who wouldn't be there if it wasn't for their last names and family connections!! Furthermore there's still racism and sexism in this world, some if it can be seen on this forum (this topic alone has definitely opened up a can of worms).

You're right. Life isn't a perfect meritocracy - and life's not fair.

However, most of the advantages that would be provided to someone with priviliged/connected parents are NOT provided to the lower socio-economic levels of ALL races.

A poor white student would lack the connections to get into Harvard, Goldman Sachs, etc. as well. The issue is a socio-economic one.

Always remember - there is a SLIGHTLY higher poverty rate amongst blacks and hispanics as compared to whites. However, there are FAR more poor whites by numbers.

In fact, high school drop-out rates are about the same. Whites=9.7% Blacks=11.8% (I just dug this out of an econ. lecture.)

I'm not going to speak out against SEO. It seems like an "okay" program. My main goal was to dispell some of the aforementioned fallacies.

Thanks, +Hammy

Jesus this is stupid, employers can't get sued for not participating in a voluntary program. By your "aweful" logic that means every single corporation that doesn't participate in SEO is liable to get sued.

No. All banks without enough underrepresented minorities who don't pariticipate in SEO will be sued for discrimination by underrepresented minorities who are applying to jobs. Which is every bank. Underrepresented minorities will point to statistics. SEO helps banks improve their statistics so they will NOT be sued.

Just look at Cisco and the recent debacle there.

+Hammy

P.S. KillerMike - You added nothing valuable.

So if you can get some numbers to back up the fact that without SEO banks would not have enough underpresented minorities that'd be great. Your post is stupid because you're argueing there's a causal effect between participating in SEO and having underrepresented minorities, banks can hire minorities just fine without SEO. You're seriously trying to say that the only way banks can have enough minorities is through SEO?

Also Cisco wasn't sued over not participating in a minority outreach program. There's a difference between underrepresenting minorities and participating in an outreach program.

P.S. Why don't you sue me for discriminating against idiots.

They do not have enough underrepresented minorities WITH SEO - SEO helps. That is the entire premise of SEO.

In fact, Cisco hasn't been sued at all. They will probably settle.

It doesn't matter if you're sued for discrimination because of an outreach program or sued for descrimination because you don't have any outreach program.

Either way, you're sued for discrimination.

+Hammy

Finally, 90% of banking employees may NOT be white males but can someone say that the vast majority of senior level (i.e. VP+ ) employees at almost all banks aren't?

Definitely. I think the glass ceiling is the real problem and is generally where the issue of racial (and gender) discrimination come into play most.

+Hammy

Uh dude if all the big banks didn't have enough minorities I'm pretty sure we would be hearing about some lawsuits. Unless you've discovered something that legions of lawyers have ignored.

They don't have enough minorities. That's a fact. The problem is proving that the lack of minorities is because of racial discrimination or because the minorities aren't "qualified."

Banks will argue the latter.

If the banks did NOT volunteer, they would be sued for discrimination anyway.

I hope that clarifies the statement for you.

+Hammy

Ibanking is a ruthless game. You do anything to get into the field and stay in it. You take every possible opportunity to enter ibanking such as using SEO. There have been others who have been offered internships from BB but decided to go with SEO because of the networking opportunity.