Prestige VS Pay

I would pick the small name.

The only reason I care about prestige is bc of the people who will give me a job in the future looking at it. If the firm is that good, it sounds like it would have a better reputation than that BB name when it comes to exit opps. I would take the small firm if it really does have that good a bit of deal-flow.

And quite honestly, don't fool yourself into thinking that a BB name provides that much brand recognition outside of industry. Most people don't know the difference between Morgan Stanley and Macy's except for a very select crowd.

Only reason people brag about BB is for future opps. Generally the pay for boutiques are the same if not higher than most BB's.

Is also relatively new name in the market... but the senior managment.. is a good.. and have ppl from all BB PE firms..

Just curiouus.. how much do senior associates in IBanking or Research make..? like base bonus.. thanks

warhawk1 is right, when i tell people i'll be working with Deutsche Bank, they're like, oh so you're going to be a teller? what the hell am I supposed to say then?

searching- I would love to hear more about this boutique that pays 2x BB.

indian-banker- some small sample anecdotal evidence to make you feel better... I recently went to an interview, 3 other people there- 2 DB and 1 MS. The firm was a top HF, so don't worry you will do fine.

Boutique is a pretty new company. It has hired I bankeers, PE guys from all the big places.. to form world class bank(thats what they say) their speciality is in Retail and energy. They hire via personal contacts and are politicaly backed in many deals..

their PE fund has alreay hit 3-4B$, Ibanking is also picked up.. Their Asset Managment side has all wealthy investors.. internatially..

I am little scareda about the Exit options.. the name is not known.. it may pull me down for a top MBA school.

The other good thing is i dont have to only work in I banking.. but will also help the firm around in their research dept and help them in their PE Fund also..

so its a bit of everything.. since the culture is family type.. u can work in several division and deals.. I will not have specific job in a division..

This is what i have so far.. please let me know.. what u guys think..

As i said my concers are:

Name is not known May close oppertunites for a good Bschool or BB I wont have fix division.. but wil be working in Ibankig,, PE and Research.. I am not sure if this is a good thing..

thanks..

How much is an Sr. Associate getting paid in NY.. base and bonus.. please if some one can share that..

See this thread for Associate comp: //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/2007-associate-bonuses

For reference, standard 1st year associate salary is $95K, so add that to the bonus numbers for all-in comp.

high point: top bucket 3rd yr associates at GS cleared $600K all-in.

I would easily pick a prestigious BB over a small firm that pays lots more.

Who cares that the small firm pays more if people don't know that? When you meet people and tell them where you work they'll assume you're a loser at a 3rd tier boutique who wasn't good enough to get into a BB. If you start splashing loads of cash they'll assume you must have your credit cards maxed out and aren't actually that rich, just trying to catch up.

There's no point earning loads of money if people don't know that you are, so you don't get any respect which you would if you worked at Goldman Sachs.

Working at Goldman Sachs on $500k would give me a lot more personal pride and satisfaction than working at Bucket Boutique for $1m.

And also think about your lifestyle, think of the hot girls you'll pick up at clubs if you say you work for Goldman Sachs rather than Bucket Boutique.

I was thinking exactly the same thing.. but ppl usually work in the BB to get more money in the future..

But If I am gonna to get paid more than GS analyst/associate ... with less hours.. then y not..

Sure GS sounds good on the resume but that doesnt mean... thats only place to make cash.. but i totally understand ur point.. u wanna show off lool kidding..

Fair point guys. You sacrifice short term salary for the prestige in order to reap the benefits in the future......

this is a personal preference but I would look at it from the other side. I choose a smaller name firm over GS and JPM, not because the salary was higher, but because I know form carrying out numerous summer internships that I will learn more from the smaller firm.

the way i would look at this matter is - if you are good enough to get into GS or JPM as a 1st year with little experience, then of course they will want you if you are an associate or vp with a ton of experience - especially compared to your competition.

Also i am of the opinion that if PE or a HF is your thing then coming from a prestigious institution will only matter at the start of the recruitment process. It will get the initial wow factor, but at the end of the day it is the person and their personality that will get them or lose them the position.

I do not believe it is quite as "closed door" as many make it out to be.

I could be totally wrong with my choice and my opinion but then I will live to learn.

"because I know form carrying out numerous summer internships that I will learn more from the smaller firm."

Thats total BS usually though. I did a boutique internship and then a BB internship, I learned more in BB because they expected more and I encountered a wider variety of projects. Of course, either way, I didn't learn all that much, but the BB experience was better. I think the "increasing opportunities" of boutiques are a myth - banking is banking, its not like they expect you to work on more complex stuff at a boutique than a BB.

Also, what kind of boutique pays more than BB to first years? Why would it pay more for first years? To attract top talent away from BBs? How much more is the salary? I would take BB because its a stable, set path whereas working at a boutique might mean you don't get recruited into top PE or get a chance to go to Biz school.

I guess I am the only one who doesn't want people to know how much money I make... especially not "girls at the clubs".

If you make early career decisions based on a couple thousand dollars, it's going to hurt you in the long run. Don't let money be a deciding factor here.

Pay is not important but when you get to execute a lot more deals, it's important. You've already answered your question.

The smaller firm has 'better experience', 'good exit options' and a lot more dealflow. Why would you still got to a BB?

I have no first hand experience about the associate salaries, but throughout my recruiting experience for the analyst position, I have found boutiques do in fact, on average pay more. Most BB banks have a 60000 Base plus 5-15 signing bonus + end of the year bonus. The boutiques I interviewed with had 65000 base, 20k sign bonus +eoy bonus.

I think they pay more because they have to in order to attract quality kids. I could be wrong in general, but this has been my personal experience.

Umm, nobody is talking about working in Operations, Teach For America, or Deloitte. He's asking about a boutique that pays twice as much as his BB option.

Going down your list of strikes against AJ: 1) This guy will be doing IB/PE 2) GS or another BB isn't making anyone more handsome 3) Proof that spending frivolously and treading on BB name won't get you quality tail 4) You originally argued against taking $1MM instead of $500K, now you are arguing over the value of a $200 cocktail?

Good luck with "the right sort of people," btw.

Hilarious. Right on.

Funny comments....btthe decision is where do youwan t to go, if you want to stay in the botique type area- services related to it- totally go botique. But if you want PE/HF I'd personally go BB- exceptions are if we're talking Evercore/Lazard,etc.

So what do you do? -I work for an investment banking firm. Oh okay; you are like my brother, he works for Edward Jones. -No, a college degree is required in my profession

Does anyone here think that prestige is somewhat ephemeral or do you guys believe in the whole "form is temporary, class is permanent" sort of thing?

Badam, if you're so obsessed with prestige, wtf are you doing working at DB?

Great bank, I have friends there, I respect the firm etc. etc., but if you are so utterly enchanted with the idea of name-dropping (which you freely admit you are-hilarious!), why aren't you at GS / MS / BX / Greenhill etc. which many people would regard as more "prestigious" firms and harder to get into?

couldn't agree more with xqtrack, when it's 4am and you're still at your desk (not that this will happen for you in S&T Badam), the name on the door isn't going to make one iota of difference to your sense of well-being

i wouldn't go so far as saying that prestige "doesn't matter". After all, prestige is what determines your exit opps, a big part of your network(a CEO of a RE PE fund I met on a train would never have talked to me if I hadn't been from Wharton for example), etc.

That said, everything i just said only consider prestige as a way to invest in my future earnings(a.k.a. great M&A firm --> better and higher-paying job in two years) or being "long-term greedy" if you want to think about it that way. It does make sense that better prestige equates to a better-paying job in the future.

If the PE fund itself of where you're considering is more than $3 or $4 billion(as your previous posts seem to indicate), then I highly doubt you're "that limited" when it comes to future opportunities. and If there's more deal-flow than a BB as you claim, than within industry it should probably have comparable prestige.

All prestige fundamentally comes from money or power. As far as I can tell, the reason that Goldman is considered the most "prestigious" bank is that bc in the past 10 years, it seems that within the bulge-bracket they were the highest-paying(except for DLJ from what I've heard). And in politics, the reason the president is the most "prestigious" guy is bc he's the most powerful. When you got the money, you got the prestige is my personal opinion.

people on this forum seem to lose focus of what THEY actually want. i admit that being an MD at a BB would be great, but people tend to focus on money as being the ultimate definition of success. again, i want money just as much as the next guy, but there is certainly more then one definition of success and many more ways to get there then just going through a BB.

making as much or even a little less can mean a lot more to me because i don't live in NYC and don't pay 3k a month for a nice apartment. if i wanted to spend 3k a month, i could have a brand New House with 5 beds, 5 baths, 4,000+ square feet with a pool and everything else you can think of.

point is, this all depends of your personal idea of success. i can tell you having a family and spending time with my wife will be very important to me, so being in a boutique is more important then impressing someone with a BB's name. the hours and face time are more important then a prestigious name. the plus for me is, my firm is very active and does a good job with the relatively small amount of AUM they have, so the partners have made a good bit of money and will continue to do so. if i stick around, so will i. there might not be as many zeros on their checks as an MD at a BB in NYC, but they probably aren't nearly as stressed.

just the other day the internet went down in the office at about 2 p.m. and the partners came out of their offices, looked around, shrugged and decided to take one of their boats out. here i am, an intern that shows up a couple times a week and i am drinking beer and boating with the partners of my PE firm. to me, that is what its about...building great relationships and enjoying life...the 6 figure pay checks and equivalent bonuses that will come in the next couple years are just a wonderful perk.

to each their own. with all that said, figure out what means the most to you and focus on that. if people knew ahead of time exactly where they wanted to be, they could make their lives a lot easier because they wouldn't be forced to make themselves qualified for every position at every firm that they could possibly want to hold. don't get me wrong being over qualified is not really a bad thing, but if you are on buy-side and have a opportunity to stay there, don't try and jump sell-side to gain certain skills...obviously someone deemed you able to function where you are at. (just a random example i read posted on here a lot)

good luck

This question all depends on what stage you are in your career IMO.

Analyst / Associate - prestige (BB) > money VP / Director / MD - money > prestige

Perhaps the question from the original post is hypothetical, but I can't think of any boutique/MM bank that pays 2X BB.

Anyone that needs to boast about how much money they make or what firm they work at in order to garner self worth and pick up chicks is pathetic. Get a life...

The second option will provide you with a greater opportunity to build lasting relationships with senior members of your group, make more significant contributions to your group, earn twice the compensation and offer a differentiated experience when applying to b-school.

I chose the second option 3 years ago (family-type PE) and have benefited greatly...

Choose the option that makes you happy and don't worry about feedback from some of the clowns on this message board. At the end of the day if you can earn 2x comp and work less hours you would be a fool to pass up the opportunity.

I always wonder on threads like these where people draw the prestige lines.

Would you take more significantly higher pay at RBS/Macquarie/Dresdner (not BBs obviously but not boutiques either) over lower pay at GS/MS etc? I would for sure - especially since it's commonly known that analysts at GS do shit work for 2-3 years while there are other banks that pay better and actually give their analysts proper work.

woah....that's a pretty sweeping generalistion fp175

Even though I don't think an analyst stint at GS is all it's cracked up to be in terms of the breadth of work you do, I would never go so far as to say they do "shit work", what makes you think this?

I can tell you for a fact, the pay at Dresdner is NOT higher than the pay at either boutiques or BB firms, although some people do consider the work at smaller firms like Dresdner to be more interesting and less generic

It was an example. I don't know what those firms pay.I happen to be working at a non-BB that pays more than GS/MS base and bonus for analysts. And I know for sure that I am doing higher-level work than my peers at BBs because I have friends at different banks in London and in NYC.

I have ex-GS analyst colleagues and they constantly remark that I and my fellow analysts have far more responsibility than they did. An MD even said he doesn't like hiring ex-GS analysts because they have to be "deprogrammed" - they are good at taking orders and producing good work but they need a lot of guidance to become independent and think outside the box.

Once again - I can only speak for my area in this which is not IBD but S&T.

DB is amazing. If I were given a choice between DB, CS and Lehman, I would pick DB first, CS second and lehman third. Then again, I'm in S&T, and the only firms that can compete against DB in that area are GS, JPM and maybe Morgan Stanley. Badam, if you left CS to join DB, then you probably made the right move. Some people consider DB to be superior CS in sales and trading. CS is a no name in S&T here, it's only good for banking and PWM.

Lol, how are Deutsche a 2nd/3rd tier German retail bank? And if this is your opinion, didn't you do any research before moving?

Are you mental?

Most people I know would KILL for a job at DB or CSFB, I personally think CSFB are f*cking great, lots of mates there who love the firm

The only reason I wouldn't want to work at DB is because their M&A in the UK is a sweatshop. Although if it was my only option, I would gladly take it!

I really can't understand why you are so obsessed with other people's opinions, man up!