"Street" culture or something worse?!
Saw a post the other day about a guy whose MD asked him to wait in line for an hour to pick up food and would like to get the community's take on a similar situation. I keep being asked to run errands for a guy on my team who is more senior to me but under VP level (things like pick up coffee, lunch, etc.). I am the only female on my team and I am the only one who is ever asked to do things like this. As far as a know, girls on other teams have not had a similar experience. My coverage team is pretty lean so I am the only first year analyst, but we do have an off-cycle intern with us now. He is never asked to run any of these errands, just me. There was a time a few weeks ago when I was finishing up a task with a tight deadline and had to go run an errand even though the intern was not busy at all. At first I thought this is how the culture on "the Street" is, but now I am starting to seriously wonder if it is sexism. On Monday, he had me go get him coffee from the machine in the office even though it is mere yards from where we sit. Other people in the office saw this and I felt so embarrassed. Similar to the guy in the other post, I am questioning if I should stay in the industry or leave.
Do you think this is sexism or just the industry culture at play? If sexism, what would be my best course of action? Contact HR (has not worked out well for me in the past so not too keen on this lol) or just quit and try to find a job somewhere else?
It’s completely unacceptable. It’s probably sexist but even if it wasn’t, it’s just unacceptable. I’d raise it with a senior before HR.
To add to what I wrote earlier, there are bad apples everywhere and they should be called out. It’s not a reason to leave the industry unless that’s what you want; you have just as much of a right to be here as he does,
for the avoidance of doubt, if someone tried to pull the “get me coffee” shit in my team, particularly to a junior woman, they would have a very short career.
Actually just next time say “I’m sorry, I’m busy”. Bullies tend to stop when you push back and if there’s a modicum of retaliation, escalate
Don't get bullied. Refuse.
I've never done a non work errand for someone rest wasn't a reciprocal thing (guy next to me is on a call and his delivery is downstair....md I work with forget his key card and needs his pass etc)
Seems clear it's not a seniority thing (the group has an intern) but because of your gender. I know you do not want to ruffle feathers as an Analyst, but I would make it clear I am busy doing my job and not your assistant.
That’s a your team thing. When I was in banking they had a rule where no one could ask juniors to do that - specifically to avoid these situations. Don’t leave the industry, leave that team if anything
Some people are dying because of starvation and some people on this forum think it is reasonable to complain about fetching come coffee as a first year analyst. Stop victimising yourself pleaese it is really annoying.
Nah this is just not normal anymore. No one does this shit. Literally get your own coffee. Guy must really like just sitting at his desk all day
GIRL I UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
And the men in comments who simply said ‘refuse’ ‘just say you are busy’ have not experienced the aftermath of doing so.
I can tell you as a living example when you start to say no to dirty job, to a person that’s doesn’t respect you-to give you dirty job in the first place, he’ll try to make your life miserable in all kinds of big and small ways. Simply because there’s something wrong with his moral compass and do not underestimate the potential of it. Simply because you were not obedient.
Find a smart, diplomatic way out of this. Because if he’s asking you to do the chores he’ll leave the shining opportunities for the men in the group. And you’ll always be the dirty work person.
Long story short if you don’t want to read the details:
My previous supervisor used me to built and assembled his lab because I had previous experiences, he asked me to do all the chores for the group without pay, when I start to refuse he took me out of my training opportunities(and gave it to another guy) then threatened to halt my research project. Eventually he told me ‘if you don’t do what I said (meaning the chores), go home get married and have kids.’ ‘Why waste your time doing a phd, a women don’t have much career after 30 anyway.’
Here’s the long story:
I was the second person to join our lab, essentially built it from scratch(since the first guy did not had as much hardware experience as I do), built the infrastructure and log system for our team, contacted suppliers and fixed a few broken stuff. When more people arrived and more stuff were ordered, I simply can’t handle it anymore, along with my own research work. Like physically cannot handle it- think you are with the technician changing valve of dangerous high pressure gas at the same time supplier called telling you they sent some wrong stuff, then your colleague need to see you because they can’t find something THEY ordered and didn’t taken care of. I wish I could split myself into three at those times.
So I had a chat with him, it didn’t go very nicely, he insisted I should keep doing the service role for everyone else, without offering any help or the possibility of hiring a lab manager.
After Christmas we accident where one of the glassware is broken- he asked me to pay for it. It made me incredibly sad and angry after a week when I realise what he was doing- he was exploiting me. So I start to say no, more, then when a training opportunity came, where we agreed at the beginning of my PhD it should be my thing (it was charged on my bench fee too, reflecting the agreement), he told another guy in other group to attend the training instead of me. I asked the guy the time and sat in anyway- consider the money I paid!
Since I started to stand up for myself he started months of verbal abuse, things like ‘your data is shit, the stuff you make doesn’t make sense, why are you here to see me even’ ‘women won’t
‘Women won’t make much progress in science anyway’ ‘don’t even come to waste my time if you don’t have anything new’ ‘go home and have kids’ goes on for an entire hour.
Eventually I contacted the university.
Then the department try to investigate this, he acted remorsefully in front of the seniors, saying I’m the best student he ever had, etc etc., just bunch of lies trying to make him look like he appreciated my appearance and hard work. The department said ultimately the power of whether to raise it to a higher level and report him is in my hands. I cried for months and felt sick every time I walked into the building, and chose not to report him. I knew his career is on the rise, he just applied for some big grants and I knew he’s gonna get some of it. I’m afraid of retaliation because I know he WILL if I report him.
The repercussion is I don’t want to continue academia anymore, although I got opportunities from other places. It killed the ivory tower for me completely.
So choose who you deal with carefully, run as soon as you can, as far as you can, when you see somethings wrong, don’t be me- invested to much and resulted in a mentally painful breakup. Yes I did enjoy my research and what I built. I like the staff that helped me. But all just made it more painful to leave.
People think women are slaves and servants won’t change. They won’t even realise what they did wrong.
Guess what, after I left, two other girls, one changed supervisor, the other simply, ‘disappeared’,
That is terrible. I’m sorry that happened to you. Your situation was/is a bit different though. Your direct boss was maniacally treating you unfairly to the point he didn’t even consider you a scientist. The OP has a non-direct, middle-manager telling her to run errands from time to time. Unless someone is actually bringing in money or is a kid of major client, they can’t directly derail her career if she smartly tells them no to a menial, non-business request, especially if she is busy. If he brings it up to anyone, OP can say that she was working on another project that the misogynist wasn’t a part of. And because this person has less direct authority and little power, there isn’t as much risk to her job vs. yours.
Something that’s been mentioned but is worth bringing up again is that people respect others with a spine. Standing up for yourself is not only a benefit tactically in solving an interpersonal issue with a single individual but it offers a strategic one long term if done right and others notice.
That is completely unacceptable behavior
As a woman in IB I don’t think I had direct sexist behaviour towards me. At least I don’t recall anything obvious. I cannot say all my female friends had similar experiences.
my advice, based on what I’ve seen around and office politics, would be to leave that team and move internally. One misogynist doesn’t mean the whole industry is like this. In fact my MD is a female, so women do make it.
why do I say leave the team and not raise with HR? Frankly, I’ve seen internal investigations go quiet, I’ve seen MDs that sent explicit pics to first year analysts get a slap on the hand and then be made head off. The only time this really has any effect is if there’s sexual harassment. HR will not protect your identity - you should read your policy but they explicitly say that your identity can be revealed as part of the investigation. If your colleagues find out you risk becoming a bit of a pariah to the men in your company. It’s not because they don’t believe your or can’t relate to your experience but because on some level they are worried that a random accusation can derail their career - true or not. They won’t know what really happened they will just view you like the girl who accused someone. And then there’s the repercussions if there’s no results from HR. This person might still have quite a bit of power, they can influence peoples perception about you in retribution and your experience at the firm. This can also go beyond the firm depending on the industry as a lot of people know each other.
in the grand scheme of things it does sound like you’re subjected to sexism, but I see the downside from stirring this as being way worse than any upside. Try to move teams and that’s it. Do it quietly, make an excuse about what you’re passionate about or an exciting opportunity and leave on good terms.
I am not happy that this is the advice I’m giving you as it sounds cowardly. But fighting people over little things (and I think getting coffee is a little thing) will drain you of energy, make you enemies. I do not see how all of this is worth it for pride or a feeling of justice.
OP my honest advice is to simply find the most woke MD on your team and communicate this to him
Sounds like a passive aggressive incel asshole. Talk to him or your MD if you're more comfortable. If you really want to be harsh about it mention that it's taking you away from explicitly prescribed tasks by higher ranking employees.
Only potential swing factor is if it turns out you haven't done a good job historically and don't get staffed on much important material because of it. That's the only case where I could somewhat see the Associate's side in being like "look if I have to do 100% of the actual real work, this chick can at least grab my coffee for me instead of pretending to help"
Yeaaah if you’re constantly sidelined on projects to get food for your team and the intern isn’t, I’ve got some news for you lol
Push back. Stand up for yourself. Call the individual out.
Aut explicabo maxime cupiditate temporibus dolor qui nostrum. Accusantium totam sint velit est.
Voluptate voluptatem perspiciatis perferendis minima omnis. Nemo reprehenderit non a fugit et. Neque magni harum et facilis consequatur cumque. Nulla provident ducimus ipsa suscipit necessitatibus minus. In sunt et est. Deserunt tenetur sapiente aut temporibus est.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...