Do you guys know of people who managed to land front office jobs at top bulge bracket banks and hedge funds with a sub-3.5 undergrad gpa and didn't have amazing connections or family wealth? what firms did they manage to get into?
| +327 | Return Rates For Interns Are Falling? | 136 | 38m |
| +146 | Article: Why UBS's Asian M&A bankers are thriving and UBS's American M&A bankers are not | 16 | 2h |
| +121 | I am a drunk MD AMA | 40 | 20h |
| +119 | Evercore > Goldman and I don’t think it’s particularly close anymore | 50 | 9h |
| +86 | UBS Offer Day | 30 | 9h |
| +64 | I hate Wells Fargo | 17 | 6h |
| +57 | An Outsider’s View of RX Banking Out of College | 6 | 6d |
| +51 | Santander IB? | 10 | 2d |
| +49 | No return offer - feeling like a failure is an understatement | 19 | 4h |
| +43 | WF Return offers | 28 | 1d |
Career Resources
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
the average BB summer analyst is far from "amazing". looking at some resume books... a lot of people can be best described as "average". luck + personality + networking trumps anything else
Everyone I know has one or the other. Sorry.
Quantum. You have 121 banana points. If you have thoroughly read this forum, it is exactly what ibhopeful said. If you want the job, you better work your butt off trying to land it.
Yeah I always figured it was one or the other, my question is however, is networking really that powerful of a tool to counter act a bad gpa?
networking is a far more powerful tool than some number. Its real.
agree with all of the above comments. network and work your ass off.
Yes. I know of a trader at MS in London who barely passed her degree.
Her bio screams of "I got fucked by the MD, had an abortion and now work at Morgan Stanley"
thanks guys
Haha!
I know a Goldman trader who graduated with a 3.4. But he was a tall, outgoing college baseball player from Stanford. The kind of person that sticks out in a crowd.
I know a guy who is going to be working FO @ Goldman with about a 2.3 (might be closer to a 2.7 at graduation, but had multiple Ds and Fs in college and is an idiot intellectually), no family connections. He did work as a caddy at a prestigious golfcourse throughout college, got into a top target, and, figuratively, sucked a lot of the right cock. He did have connections in that regard and was interning at Goldman since the summer after his soph year. Anything is possible with networking and I think it is more important than probably anything else (networking, then school, then GPA from what I've seen in friends at my school and others).
I grad with a 2.6 to bb
It's all networking. The posts above are all corret.
2.9 from a complete non target and i have an interview for Debt Capital Markets with no prior work experience. Yeah, networking is key.
This is why its important to network where ever and whenever you can. This is probably the single most important reason to getting into an ivy league or target school. Mainly because you can automatically tap into the alumni database, and therefore network your ass off with them to transition into your career.
Its not really the money that matters, networking with the right people brings money anyway. Im sure those rich people had met those connections long before they ever had any money to begin with anyway. You gotta advertise yourself and look in the right places to get to know people.
There are those that get lucky like the one above, with a sub par gpa, however probably a great personality coupled with confidence also helps, with alot of luck, hope the person that interviews you is kind . But these scenarios are very few and far between , and it is up to you to do everything you can to network, network, network. This is the reason why you join and create clubs and go out to events.
If i get this job i will post my complete story to help others break in and how I got interviews. I have developed a strategy that has gotten me 4 front office interviews thus far and will share once I have time. It involves networking but this is the very least.
^>^
i will post my story if people want to know
yah I'd like to hear. I'm interested in energy trading and I think that is what you are in... plus you always have good insight into things
2.9 and FO s&T
This is a great thread........shows all those people out there that think they have to have a 3.8 from a great school that they dont know what theyre talking about.......it truly is all about who you know, that they can put you in front of the "right" person. networking networking networking networking networking networking networking and more networking................
i got into a bb ibd with much less than 3.5, though i was at a top school (hyp) and spent a lot of time networking
and knees....just sayin
If anyone posts their story, I hope they can shed some light on how to get in without much alumni help. I think coming from a school with no alumni on the street is a tough position to be in.
I had pretty much zero alum on the street and had 9 FO interviews and multiple offers. When you are nontarget, all nontargets are your alumni. When you discover this, your networking will elevate to a whole new level.
wow, this guy is getting somewhere...
care to share your detailed story? (or pm)
Oh wow that's some deep stuff right there. Quite enlightening actually.
It's a lot easier to get in with a shitty GPA if you went to a top school since that indicates (to some) that you aren't retarded and you obviously have a lot of ways to network even without the alumni network (better career centers, families of your friends, etc.). For example, one BB recruits to an obscene degree from one of the frats on my campus because a top senior level exec is an incredibly loyal alumna of both the school and the frat. The last couple years it has slowed down a bit, but it isn't uncommon to see 3-4 guys from his frat getting FT positions with terrrrrible GPAs and/or no experience.
Very possible. Know a few guys with 3.2s from state-school. Getting an offer at several non-BBs can be MUCH more difficult than say getting an offer at BAML, Barcap or DB. The guys from my class that went to BBs were really AVERAGE.
How is getting a BB offer easier than getting an non-BB offer? Or did I misinterpret this?
Very possible. Know a few guys with 3.2s from state-school. Getting an offer at several non-BBs can be MUCH more difficult than say getting an offer at BAML, Barcap or DB. The guys from my class that went to BBs were really AVERAGE.
what do you mean by non BBs here? like Lazard or more like Jefferies?
I have around a sub 3.5 gpa (from target) and will be starting FT at a large well-known HF. I had interesting past work experience which landed me interviews. Once you have an interview you just have to be able to sell yourself well.
I think Advisory means that smaller shops can be harder to get into because they don't necessarily have training programs and thus they expect you to have more of a clue what you're doing. At larger places such as GS/MS/etc they can pound the material into your ears, up your ass and through every other orifice you have available.
And once again, let's change forum title to, "If you're not sure, NETWORK!"
gpa isn't everything, from my school (target) kids with only 3.75s or so in hard sciences got first rounds with solid non-BBs for banking
"with only 3.75s"
hahaha
i know some engineers with 3.3 and 3.4s who landed interviews at top shops. sometimes the major does matter, but not as much as networking and being personable. or you could just get a great gpa and give yourself some margin for error.
3.3 GPA in engineering at Princeton or Biology at Harvard or something else (1) hard and (2) prestigious and you're likely to get offers from places if you're a good applicant with previous internships etc... You're right though. From what I've seen in my time - GPA really matters a LOT. The only situations when people seem to be able to rise above it (it being a 3.3 GPA or something) and get the top jobs before going to business school is when they either went to the very best UG schools (HYP), or had connections... as you mentioned.
dime a dozen 3.3 to 3.5
lol. You're all bad people.
it can be done, but you need to compensate for it. Great experience or knowledge.
Is it possible to move into a junior role at a BB, maybe a year after graduation?
Debitis voluptates nisi repudiandae incidunt modi iste. Similique eaque debitis enim eum totam sunt.
Quae at fugiat doloremque ut. Excepturi in et non amet culpa. Temporibus nesciunt ut temporibus ratione nostrum.
Iusto quas quo necessitatibus et. Qui officia sint nobis consequatur esse eum. Et eum consequatur facilis quasi voluptas vel dolorum quia. Unde maxime optio aut quasi incidunt id molestiae. Praesentium repellendus exercitationem beatae assumenda consectetur minima. Ullam alias ipsum corporis ea sed. Officia quis laboriosam est qui.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Modi neque architecto omnis eos ipsum nostrum et. Unde odio ut provident eius voluptas dolores illo. Est accusamus ea sit minima sint perspiciatis nesciunt. Neque reiciendis at autem voluptatem modi vero ea eius.
Molestiae ut omnis est ipsum dolorem minus. Vero corporis nisi amet minima corporis et. Est molestiae beatae dolore inventore quod nisi. Quasi debitis molestiae rerum est. Quo atque ut dicta illum ipsum architecto ut.
Ut est vel ipsum quia ipsum nam. Eos natus porro quia officia. Dicta sed aperiam assumenda ducimus quis ut. Expedita et molestias labore sit at aut perspiciatis temporibus. Amet temporibus omnis non fuga quo qui. Voluptatem ea autem architecto pariatur id tempora sunt.
Rem et veniam amet sint repellat vero. Odit labore occaecati dolore ut aliquid. Soluta molestias culpa temporibus ipsum provident.
Cumque ratione corporis quae velit veniam dolores consequuntur voluptatem. Nihil quam et eaque sunt sit dolore corrupti. Quia odit expedita exercitationem harum rerum unde et rem.