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From the outside in, it seems that IB / PE is a track where you can grind and likely advance in PE, or if not, have relatively straightforward exits. In reality, it now feels like if you don’t move up in PE, the path isn’t that great… HF are hard to get and a different way of thinking. Search is risky. Corp dev opps are not all that common and likely require you to move around every few years. You’re not the most qualified for corporate roles since most of what you’ve done is deal-based. Etc. etc. It feels like if you’re the type of person who wants a pretty structured track and doesn’t want to have to spend every other year recruiting and thinking about new ways to network, reallocate your skillset and pitch yourself, then something like medicine or even education is better. Thoughts?
I've been telling people this on here for a long time now. Unless you want to be a career banker or will try to move down market in PE to stay long term, do not bother with IB/PE. There are not nearly as many "interesting" exit opps as the scammers on here will try to sell you on. Oh yeah, and if it is by chance something actually "interesting" (i.e. some "cool" strat role at a startup) you will be taking a huge paycut. Prove me wrong.
Why would anyone "scam" you to do a job that delivers them no direct value
Because they are trying to justify their own career choices
What's a better path then for those broadly interested in finance? Unless your only alternatives are completely different path jobs like comp sci.
Ideal career path for longevity is:
2y top tier IB -> 2y PE MF -> Go downstream as VP to promising growing UMM/MM with upward mobility that will grow into a UMM/MF by the time you make partner
Oh yea.. and while you’re at it, make sure your first wife is a model that earns more than you during your MF years. Divorce her during your time at HBS and then use the proceeds to bribe the headhunters at the promising UMM firm.
Following. Definitely echo prior poster that exit ops are much less common than I initially imagined.
Simple solution. Be ok with the job you recruit for instead of the one you recruit for from the job you recruit for.
Agreed
Some truth to the medicine comment. Have seen many doctors go on autopilot after training. Never have to seriously recruit for anything as they will get 10+ emails a week about new job opportunities.
Every 10 years, there is a super hot specialty / space to be in before it gets oversaturated. But even with oversaturation, the jobs available don't significantly decrease. One of the only few 6 figure professions where as an employee, you won't have any trouble finding a job in your desired location in any economy.
The one thing I don’t understand is: What applicable skills do all you former PE Associates have that you think translates into anything outside of PE/Banking/Consulting/HF/Corp Dev and Strategy, etc. I’m just curious what magical roles people think exist outside of starting your own business and giving yourself a role. 90%+ of people in PE don’t have any technical knowledge to work at somewhere like Space X in a non-finance position
You’re missing the point. It’s not that THEY (current associates trying to get out) think the world should be their oyster or something. It’s that people on this site (not just prospects but legitimately VPs and seniors) try to tell kids how amazing of an opportunity IB is and how greatful we should all be and all the doors it will open.
For example, you always have kids on here a few months into their analyst stint who make posts about wanting to just leave to a more “chill role” early on. You will always get responses from dozens of seniors telling them to “stick it out” and finish the two years or whatever when they would be better off just not wasting their time anymore and pursuing what they want directly.
You’ve either never been to college or are legitimately delusional if you think there is more upwards mobility or money to be made in either education or medicine than high finance.
100% agreed.
What the hell are these takes? If you make it to PE there are a ton of exit opportunities available (depending on the fund, you develop a lot of operational skills) or you can just move “down stream” to a fun that still manages tens of billions of dollars.
Guess what, a $10 bb “LMM” shop that generates a 20% IRR will still 2.5x in 5 years which means the shop shares $3 bn in profit… you can make an enormous amount of money at these smaller shops.
What other field / role can you go into to even get half the exit opportunities that IB provides other than consulting? If you go straight to corp dev you’re stuck, if you “focus on what you want” sure you get a head start but what if you hate it?
Medicine has enormous security but guess what, you are hyper specialized and are locked to whatever path you choose at like, 30 years old.
so you're telling me that after IB/PE I can't be a diplomat in the United Nations?
I got in this field for the "extremely huge variety of exit opportunities (think doctor, diplomat, CIA agent, politician, CEO, etc.)".
are you telling me now that I will need to stick around CorpDev/IB/PE/startups (all Excel/analytical and finance related roles)? wtf this wasn't in my 10 year plan
You're on every single one of these type of threads with some snarky response. You're like a worse wannabe version of Smoke Frog, except he's actually funny at times.
You do realize that if you had graduated in the last few years rather than when you did there's a good chance you wouldn't have even broken into the industry in the first place? Or if just one thing went differently, you would have never gotten that promotion. Some of you older millennial types (it's obvious sorry) have no idea how much luck played a role in landing where you are today.
Being hard-working isn't a differentiator not does it make you special, there's hundreds of hard-working high-schoolers who come on here stressing themselves about trying to break-in to the right school, IB program, PE recruiting cycle, etc. Meanwhile what were you doing when you were in high-school or much less even a freshman in college? Guarantee you either didn't even know what IB was or were on some rooftop getting drunk. Be grateful.
First off, don't associate me with Smoke Frog, it offends me.
Now, the world is dynamic, things change. Every period and recruiting generation has its own opportunities and challenges. For example, people nowadays can exploit the hell out of AI and whatever software to:
- crack perfect scores on screener tests
- to dig and understand interview questions
- to craft immaculate cover letters, etc.
- cold emails, etc.
things that we years ago had to sit down, think critically, talk with people, and keep crafting until we nailed all of them with some actual effort. So where's the "hardship"? More competition? But I thought we encourage meritocracy, you know, recruiting only "the best"...
and I lateraled from law to finance, so think also about that: If you promise someone to follow a standard path to get a certain high-paying job, wouldn't that crowd the path? As I like to say, for smart people, there are always paths. Plenty of people here who share their unique stories on how from non-targets / 2.3 GPA / Africa made it into IB and some Yale guy here crying that opportunities are not as great... Excuse me, but if you don't understand statistics and you can't look at the IB/PE acceptance rate statistically to understand the "risk" and live with your life even if you don't get in, then what's the complaint?
It seems that I'll need to start adding like a sort of disclaimer below my sarcastic comments to stupid posts like this one for people like you, but let me distill what this post is:
> Guys is telling us that finance does not have as many exits, that those exits are not guaranteed.
Which leads me to my question: Why those exists should be guaranteed? You decided to get into IB because, generally, you should have a long-term view of what sort of skills you want to develop. Now, you want to do Corporate Development? Why don't go directly in it? You failed to recruit for PE? Well, that's also something to keep in mind when you join IB - sometimes you fail, are you comfortable staying where you were or worse, if not, what would be the easiest exit you could live with? You wanted to get into IB for 2 years to build a skillset meanwhile you think what you want to do in life? Well, fuck you, like some Deity up there should guarantee you a good life after you discover yourself.
You wanted a comfortable career progression? Should have went to work in Washington, not sure what you're doing in a field notoriously known for grinding, especially the more you climb the ladder where you need to prove your worth daily.
And by the way, let's not forget that this competition is because of the democratization of the field. If we go even further back, those fields were only for people from reputable schools, who had the network, and who came from JDs/MBAs. You either are an Ivy guy talking to me about the "hardships" because you're mad it got democraticized, or you're a non-target and talk about the "hardships" in terms of competition but you don't understand that if you can't get now, you def woudn't got in decades ago.
and for the record, I dont sugar coat my comments because it does you absolutely NO service. Instead, the more I touch your nerve with some harsh realiiesy, the madder it gets you, which makes you a bit more aggressive in wanting to change the situation so relax a bit your accusations that I'm "snarky", I think I'm doing a greater favor this way than filling with solidarity and empathy your situation and make yourself feel good about smth that clearly doesn't make you feel good if it led you to write abt it on WSO, it's a difference sort of "help/guidance" which actually pushes you to do something about it, instead of just chaning your perspective to cope with it ;) happy holidays
To be a bit more optimistic, think the problem isn't about the lack of exits, but rather the paycut associated with them. Chief of staff/bizops/stratops are all possible in addition to corpdev and finance. From there, you can become a specialist and eventually a p&l owner. Have to be ok with what that means for your cash comp in the near term though.
Can also do specialized masters if you want smth different. Saw some associates I know go do policy or politics and land very nice gigs after.
But again, nothing will pay as well as that job 4 years out of school for the simple reason that your skillset is being applied to businesses that aren't nearly as scalable as front office finance is (which is entirely due to the long hours worked by a small number of people). But you could do revops, growth, general manager, etc if you want to, likely with the intermediate steps mentioned above.
EDIT: Would also note that your savings will far exceed what you'd have if you spent 4 years on the corporate or startup side building up to the position you want, not to mention that you'll likely take much longer to get there.
What type of comp are we talking about from say 2-4 years of IB/PE?
It will be a huge cut 50%+ all in. These guys on here will quote you like $150K all-in, you're barely even getting that. There's major survivorship bias on here when it comes to these type of roles. Yes, there are places that pay more but there are not nearly enough spots for all the BB/EB analysts on the street every year this is an undeniable fact. These guys just haven't actually run the numbers.
Bro when did these corporate exits ever exist. PE has matured and been commoditized just like banking was earlier, now growth is slower for both. But never have I seen some excellent corporate outcome and these corporate gigs prob pay better now with business side tech roles being available than they did before.
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