I am just curious if it is worth the debt to get onto wall street. I am also wondering if there are other alternatives to make it?
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interested in other opinions. I believe the consensus of this sub is the value of OCR/resume drops/prestige/alumni outweighs the debt.
Can you work hard and still end up obtaining these jobs? without prestigious univesities?
Yes, absolutely, within reason of course
Absolutely, but you'll have to maintain a near-perfect GPA, have relevant experiences, etc whereas a student at a target could just maintain a 3.7+ GPA and have a shot through OCR.
Depends on what the alternative is. If you can get to an elite state school (UMich, UVA, etc) those can be a cheaper and still effective alternative
Not always the case. If you're in state, yes, maybe... out of state, not likely. Most target schools (all ivies, most top private schools... Uchicago, Stanford, MIT, etc.) are "100% need-based" and give generous aid to students. I go to a T10 US college and pay $5k all-in per semester, whereas I'd undoubtedly be paying much more at my big state university. Of course, if you're rich you're going to have to pay full tuition at these schools, but you'll see through admission financial aid stats that the average cost of tuition for 100% need-based schools is usually less than half of sticker price
It's assumed that the OP is in decent financial shape, or else s/he wouldn't talk about taking out loans to go to Ivys, since all Ivys have need based admissions
I had the same mindset before making my decision whether to accept the semi target offer with debt or chose one of the state schools for free. Despite my early concerns i can say now that I would not trade the people I have met, the knowledge of understanding how recruiting works, the various alumni who have been helpful and the professors who act like family members at thanksgiving when discussing economic and political issues for less debt and a massive uphill battle in order to have a .5% chance to get hired over the target/semi target students. Sure having debt to pay off sucks but at least I feel confident knowing that whether its IB or a narco trafficker in South America ( I don't encourage the use of or distribution of drugs but if one day some hardo goes from HYP-> JPM/GS/MS-> KKR/BR -> HSW MBA ---> Drug king pin he would have had arguably the greatest life known to man) at least I will have an alumni network to connect with if necessary.
As mentioned above UVA, UT, Umich and UCLA are all state target schools that are prestigious, will provide you with multiple opportunities to get into high finance and are cheaper. If you are considering debt at NYU stern vs a full ride at the University of Nevada well then there's a massive tradeoff between the two schools and the opportunities.
Unless you can get in-state tuition at the “elite” public schools like Ross at Michigan or UVA, I personally think going to a target like Ivy League schools or Stanford is absolutely worth it. From my own experience, the networking, alumni network, OCR, “prestige” is more than worth it. What is 100K+ in debt if your career ceiling is so much higher? My friends at state schools, most of them thought working at Big 4 firms is the best of the best when target students don’t usually even consider those firms. I know for a fact that I would not have been able to jump to the buy-side and made 250K+ starting out if I went to a non-target school. Even if your family can’t afford the debt, you won’t find better financial aid packages anywhere else.
There are always other alternatives, in fact there are literally a million of them. Look at the CV's of 100 different firms, schools are all over the place.
This is a case where probably, yes, it will make sense to go to one of the top tier schools and just take on the debt. Where people often get into trouble is they pay top tier prices for mid or lower tier schools which get them squeezed out more often than not. Just do realize that even making 100+ straight out of school in banking, it will impact your spending for a few years. If you make 250+ out of school like someone below - then, well, can i send you my resume?
I love how people pay for college thinking that they're buying their way into something other than education. You are paying for a degree, that is all.
Education alone does not guarantee you a job - it helps. It's like saying that I am buying an expensive pair of basketball shoes to play in the NBA. Air Jordans may give me a slight edge, but they can only improve my game so much.
All a degree, a name, an alumni network do is help you get to the front door. It is up to you and your skill set to land the job. How much is getting to the front door worth to you?
Yeah but Alumni network has implications outside of work, and exit opps.
Eh - many people tout alumni networks as some golden ticket. For any exit op or outside of work implication you still have to walk the walk and talk the talk. For instance, my school has a particularly invovled alumni network but it's no free ride. You still have to work the room, be ambitious, and earn things on your own merit.
I agree. Putting in the work during and after school is the best way to advance your career . But if you are smart and continue leveraging the alumni network of your school after you graduate, you can open up a whole new set of opportunities.
The difference is Wall Street is very prestige driven, so it's like saying you are a top college prospect for the NBA, and if you wear Air Jordans scouts will look at you, but if you wear And1 sneakers no one would send scouts to your games. I have no doubt people in state schools can do the work required for banking, but it would be near impossible to get a look vs. being in an Ivy where the banks come on campus to recruit
Probably not worth it if you're only measuring 'worth' by getting onto Wall St. But if you add in the network, the resume prestige, and potentially the education, it could be worth it overall to take on debt.
How much debt are you talking about?
Go for fit over "prestige"... I learned it the hard way
Why be so vague? What schools are we talking about and how much debt?
Reading all this, wondering how grateful I should be to my parents for paying prep school and college tuition...
Very. You have a massive leg up compared to most people your age and it will be much easier for you to save for a down payment on a house, have kids, etc.
For undergrad, it's only worth it within reason. I don't know what the cutoff is. 50k? 75k?
The truth is that no high school senior really knows that they want to work on wall street. They might have an idea that it's something interesting and worth pursuing, but nothing more than that.
In college, you should be more focused on figuring out your strengths and weaknesses and exploring different paths to do down. Too much debt can make that hard.
Having gone to an Ivy and benefitted from alumni networks and all of that, I think the answer is: "it depends". A cop out answer, I know.
We have seen most of the "pro" cases for taking on debt in order to go to an Ivy/target to try to get on the street posted above and so I will not re-hash them here. They are thoughtful and well reasoned.
The "con" cases, which no one here seems to have dicussed are as such: bad market and unlucky. What if you graduate into a recession or when Wall Street keeps shrinking (which in many areas it certainly is now)? That means fewer/nobody will get jobs. Banks will come and put on a pony show. People presenting will look miserable and tell you flat out how hard it is. Maybe they make some token hires just to justify that they have a grad program. Target or not. Remember also that more than half of the applicants to get into Wall Street jobs, even from targets don't get them. Even though comp is way down, and people know its a slog, tons of qualified people still apply. So what if you are in the majority of people (ie. don't get in?). I'll raise my hands. I was one of them. I didn't get in through OCR and that was in the hey day when apparently "everyone" was hiring and recruiting (I think acceptance rates were like 25% or less in general across the board). Typically it's the same people applying to everything, the same people getting the interviews and the same people getting the jobs.
So OP - now you are on the verge of graduating from an IVY/target. The market is awful and/or you didn't get in and you have a butt-load of student debt. Debt that you took on for the sole purpose of trying to get into Wall Street (this is of course assuming nothing changes about you in college - which it will). Was it worth it?
The answer is: I don't know. Only you will. I hope that you pick a place in which you feel good, positively motivated, can build a great network of friends, learn a lot, see/do a lot, have a good time and hopefully get closer to finding out what you want to do post-school.
The other caveat I will add is that to take advantage of alumni networks one has to really trawl and meet a lot of people and reach out and do it for a while. Just chatting with people when applying won't help that much since so many others will be doing the same thing. To really get an edge you should probably get to know people and for a while. This takes time and effort that few are willing to put in. It's also not for every personality type.
Good Luck
Really insightful post mate - what route did you take post grad? Do you regret your target school choice in any way?
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