Toronto Networking Struggles
Current sophomore at a Canadian target and I’m struggling to get responses to my cold outreach. I started sending emails since last week trying to schedule coffee chats, but I have not gotten any responses. Not a SINGLE one.
I even make sure to personalize these emails (mostly reaching out to alum so mention that we’re from the same school). Curious if anyone else is struggling. Is Toronto really that bad in terms of gatekeeping?
Congrats you’ve now learned that going to a “target” in Canada means fuck all. I use quotes because unless you’re at Ivey there are no targets because the rest of the seats are reserved for students on dedicated clubs.
Fortunately for me, I’m AEO. But would firms rather take students from a non-target than an Ivey student just because they’re on a club??? I understand clubs play a role with networking, but there’s no way they’d rather take a non-target when they have the opportunity to take an Ivey student.
It’s harder to get into those clubs at non-targets than it is to get into Ivey. Saying this as someone who got into Ivey as AEO but decided to go to a “non-target” instead
Canadian student and incoming analyst at what is generally considered a target. Not sure if this is a troll response, but if not, it comes off as seriously out of touch. The experience you have; what you’re actually doing in school, is MUCH more influential in hiring decisions than where you’re getting that experience.
“The opportunity to take an Ivey student” look man, none of it is an “opportunity” for the firm. You’re a kid. You know nothing. I don’t care who you are, summer intern hires are a commodity for IB roles and similar positions. We all know the same amount of nothing. So what that means is that going out of your way in your school to be involved in these finance clubs, and yes, have alumni that can pull you in, makes a MASSIVE difference, school aside.
I think some of the best advice you could receive right now is take the “target school” mantra out of your vocabulary. You’re a student, industry professionals are inundated with many of you, constantly. You’re not entitled to responses by virtue of your schools standing, nor interviews despite lacklustre extracurricular involvement. A “non-target” student who does all that they can is going to smoke an Ivey/Queens student that coasts through the process 10 times out of 10.
To be helpful instead of humbling here, keep at the reachouts, it’s early days for Toronto still. If you can do in person chats, make sure to do so (London is close to TO so that helps), and maybe don’t structure your emails as being “we’re from the same school, so you must want to take to me.” Lastly, good chats beget good chats. Have one good one, have them pass you along. You’ll get the volume you’re looking for much faster.
Hope the cycle goes well, but the first step is taking the ego out of the equation. I hope you do.
they know ivey kids have huge egos and no grit. non target kids work so much harder with the chip on their shoulder of not having a school name to do the walk for them. do yourself an favour and lose the ego before you get out of school or the guys you work with will take pleasure in knocking you down a few notches - your choice.
I mean being in a club shows interest and knowledge for the most part, so that plus being at u of t or queens is also competitive
Idk man some of these networking emails/LinkedIn messages I've been getting are atrocious and get auto dinged.
Care to share examples of terrible messages you’ve received? I make sure to be respectful as possible in these messages, addressing the person as either “Mr.” or “sir”.
Yeah any Mr or Sirs is an auto ding. Messasing on weekends/holidays is weird like what, messaging me at weird times as well like 1am ("I'm in a different timezone", ok but you're supposed to take into consideration the receiver), any overly long emails with too much yapping, any emails that sound entitled, if you have no hope (ie 4th year and 1 cashier job at Timmies, I know everyone starts somewhere but it's pretty much over for you by now), attached resume has mistakes, any other attachments have mistakes, wrong name (how do you mess this up???).
Why are you addressing them as Mr or Sir, that’s why dawg
Network with the British instead; why would you want to earn 69 cents on the dollar ?
Sorry not interested; why would I want to work all those hours to earn £40,000?
It’s 65K GBP, convert it to CAD just for fun
Unfortunately, people are busy and very few care about making time for a second year student who is looking for a coffee chat. It’s not about gatekeeping. Most people are simply tired of getting cold call messages or emails and just delete them. Some alumni make an effort to respond to students, but don’t hold your breath. The positions for 2025 summer analysts have typically been filled months ago. If you don’t already have a position, it’s likely not going to happen, unless you luck out. Pay attention to when recruiting happens in early 2025 and try to get a job for summer 2026. Get your technicals down. Recruiters come to the targets and interview the top students. Do mock interviews. Keep on trying to network. If you are at a target, join a finance club and talk to students who have successfully gotten jobs. Keep in mind that this is a super competitive field and there are lots of amazing candidates. You need to have good grades, solid technicals and interview well. People have to want to work with you. Lots of students also have connections which help them get in the door. You can be a solid candidate and never get a shot. Be ready if you do get an interview. Best of luck.
People may be busy, but they should have some empathy and understand where I’m coming from. They were in my shoes once, so they should at least pay it forward. Instead, they ignore my messages because I’m not family or a friend.
Same thing applies to the clubs at my school. Tried asking a lot of upper year students for help, but a lot of them just gatekeep and are reluctant to help someone that’s not their friend.
Is it required to have a summer 2025 internship in order to land something good for summer 2026? Also, how far should I be into technicals? I’ve started reading the 400 Q’s since last week and I’m pretty confident in my knowledge.
No one owes you anything. You aren’t entitled to anyone’s time or energy. That kind of attitude is just going to piss people off. It’s off-putting. People aren’t responding to you because they are busy doing their actual jobs and don’t have time to respond to random emails from students asking for their help. Some people may respond, but most don’t have time. If you don’t have connections, keep networking. You have to make this happen on your own and stop blaming other people. You create your own opportunities. Lots of people break into IB with no connections because they are smart, have great grades, they are personable and interview well. You need to be exceptional and stand out because there are loads of great candidates. Of course having an internship gives you a better chance of securing another. If you don’t have an internship before fourth year, you are unlikely to get a FT offer at all. Most banks hire out of the summer analyst class for FT. FYI, No one is gatekeeping. IB is super hard to break into. It’s competitive and that’s it. You should know your technicals inside and out. Interviews are brutal. If you think you are confident in your knowledge at this point as a second year student within zero experience, you are likely overestimating your abilities.
If you don’t identify as a women / lgbtq then odds are against you in Canada.
Given that they can’t verify if I am actually LGBTQ+, would you recommend that I claim that I’m a part of the community in a subtle way?
This approach should work and was recommended to me by an HR insider but my ego wouldn’t let me. There is no law or practise under which the company can force you to provide proof.
You’re also hitting people up at a tough time. Mid-December people are either jammed to get stuff done for year end, doing a lot of client entertainment, and/or trying to wind down a bit for the holidays. You might have better success in the new year.
Thanks for the insight. Unfortunately, this was the only time that I was free because of final exams and everything. Hopefully I get more responses come January 1.
Other students do it alongside finals. When everyone has the same timeline, that's not an excuse and just more of a reason to be ranked lower.
Networking not really that big of a deal in Toronto any more especially with the prevalence of off-cycle internships. If you go to a "target" you should have a recruiting team that is dedicated to reviewing all the resumes from your school.
I’ve noticed the increase in off cycle internships, is it because people strike-out of summer recruiting? Would you recommend I take that path?
I’m part of recruiting for my alum and I’ve ignored most of the coffee chat / networking outreach as I’ve been super fucked with work the last few months, the ones I’ve responded to I’ve asked to reach back out to me end of January. I plan to do them through Jan-Mar leading into interviews so you might hear from me in a few weeks if you’ve reached out. Otherwise I imagine others might be in a similar boat. Edit: you started emailing last week? That’s leading into the holidays and probably why you’re not getting responses. You should follow up with people mid January
Would doing an in person chat be better before or after apps drop -- ex: in person chat mid Jan/Feb (for Toronto), then apps drop, email the people you talked to to let them know you applied/ask for a reference, is that best way in your opinion?
Yes, I started emailing last week since that’s when I was done exams. I’ve already tried following up with some people this week, but I’ll be sure to reach out again come January 1.
Don’t message anyone on January 1st, wait until the week of Jan 6th
Yeah you're not gonna make it unfortunately.
You're blaming everyone but yourself for the lack of responses, saying people are gatekeeping, and are feeling entitled to people helping you. You started to send emails last week, right before the holidays, and are getting shocked people are not replying to you? You mentioned in another comment you are addressing people with Sir and Madam... if I got an email where someone called me Mr., Sir, etc, I would automatically ignore it. You said you started to read the 400Q last week, and already feeling confident? Next you are going to make a post saying Canadians are gatekeeping by making technicals so difficult!
I am proud to be a Canadian, and it is people like you who are ruining are reputation by correlating your incompetence and lack of results, with a fault in Canadians.
You’re hating and you don’t even know me, that’s hilarious.
FT people should be helping me, considering it’s a part of the job and shows that they go above and beyond. As for upper year students, I stand by with what I said; they only look out for their friends.
Glad to know you’re a barbarian and can’t handle being referred to in a formal manner; you’re probably not cut out for the office.
I am proud to be a Canadian, and it is people like you who are ruining the reputation by refusing to help others in need, and condemning them when they speak out.
Bro is a sophomore typing like an MD
I genuinely can’t tell if this is troll or not. If you’re serious, may god help whatever poor firm accidentally hires you.
Who tf are you lmao. The recruiting part of their job is conducting interviews and reviewing resumes. Responding to students is just them being nice.
You can't even get a reply to a COFFEE CHAT, let along an interview, summer analyst position, or full-time offer... and you're telling me I am not cut out for the office??
This is North America, we do not say Sir, Madaam, etc, that does not make me a barbarian
Exactly this.
Delete.
You’re right, the unfortunate reality is that firms have placed too much emphasis on a candidate’s demographic rather than their ability.
You suggest lying about diversity but not LGBT, why is that? Also, do you think it’s possible for me to get away with claiming I’m partially Black? I’m a bit darker in tone, and my parents are Tamil for what it’s worth.
A recap of OP for everyone who just came across this thread:
- sophomore dark skin indian international kid at Ivey, some quotes from him:
So at Face value, in London he would be making $12k more minus FX fees, yet claims he’s better off in Toronto lmao he’s obviously trolling us
Yeah based on this + reading the guy is messaging people during the holidays and addressing them as sir I am no longer surprised there have been no responses.
This thread was a terrible idea. He will definitely get outed by someone that received one of these messages.
Honestly like, I doubt people he messaged paid any mind to his emails; literally calls them “sir” and “boss” although they are analysts and associates
Sophomore male at ivey: ~200 people in the world
Indian: ~50 people left
Dark/southern indian specifically: ~20 people left
Did search fund internship: ~15 people left
Not in any top clubs (WIC/Mustang/WCM): ~5 people left
Sends Toronto bankers emails calling them sir: 1 person left
Del
Big mac comments are based
.
I can ASSURE you no one would have the balls to complain about me.
.
Look man - I was on your side initially reading some of the tone of the responses to the thread you have gotten (truthful but harsh, so I empathized), but after reading some of the replies you have written within this thread there is definitely some entitlement to you.
When I was recruiting years ago, I had someone tell me I wasn't wearing proper attire (I wore a checkered purple shirt and a grey suit to a coffee). I didn't take offense and actually listened to the advice, albeit originally disagreeing with it. Based on your replies, you would have thrown a tantrum because you disagreed with it.
People on this thread are giving you non-sugar coated advice. It's up to you to take it or leave it; the choice will determine how badly you want the job.
I second this. Your responses reek of entitlement. I broke in with no connections, and am from a non target and not in a club. Like you said, it just takes one person to take a chance on you, but you aren’t entitled to shit in this world, let alone an IB job.
You’ll never convince someone to take a chance on you if you act entitled, and why would you post on a forum asking for advice then disagree and argue with everyone giving you advice?
Not sure if it’s necessarily entitlement if recruiting is part of the job, but whatever. And no, I don’t disagree with what’s been said about hard work. I’ll have to work much harder than others just to have a fraction of a chance. I just disagree with how there’s no gatekeeping (come on let’s be real here).
I think this is how you should write out your emails:
"Good afternoon Sir,
My name is (y/n) and I am a gay, Tamil (i.e. partially black) sophomore at the prestigious Ivey School of Business. I am interested in applying my vast personal experiences and valuable life lessons from being a LGBTQ + BIPOC + Ivey candidate to a career in Investment Banking. Given my impressive background I assume you must be eager to grab coffee with me as part of your job responsibilities as an Analyst/Associate. Well, look no further. Feel free to send some times that work for you for a chat next week.
Thanks,
(y/n)"
I guarantee you will have a 100% response rate.
Didn’t have to do the western Ivey sophomore like that..
Stop trying to troll me with your stupid response. I obviously have enough social awareness to not email something as ridiculous as this.
Based on your replies to people on this thread, I wouldn't say you "obviously" have enough social awareness.
Sorry that a few people are being unfair to you. Have a few people who would be interested in helping out. pm me
Sent, thanks.
Going back through this thread, this just has to be rage bait. Every response is perfectly crafted to get a reaction and make Ivey kids look like retards.
Fr fr. This definitely a UBC kid trying to smear Ivey.
Ha. As if I’d waste my time and go to UBC.
If this is the average Ivey kid, the school has definitely dropped in quality
Canadian here
first you need to understand that there are like what ..50 new grad IB seats on Bay Street if that each year. And another handful in Calgary
as a Canadian you should know that in a socialist country (Canada) connections and social standing trump Merit
so simple question: did you go to upper Canada college, havergill or something of the like?
if not then you really need to be super distinctive and interesting
why don’t you write a 5 page report on the state of IBD in Canada and try shopping that around
or maybe study Petro engineering and ply your wares in Calgary
Think about having a distinct skill set. I had a friend who studied geography and worked as a scientist - now that’s a value add skill if you’re working restructuring for mines on the Canadian Shield
do something super interesting and shop it around ; or you are going to lose out to the nepo kids
Absolutely incorrect. There are simply more people who want high finance roles than available seats, and inevitably, people will be unhappy.
Now you can sit around and blame DEI, nepotism, corruption, or a multitude or reasons, but you need to recognize that this mindset is the exact same reason why you didn’t get the role.
Go look at the placements from Laurier or University of Waterloo, you will see a dozens of students getting top US IB/PE roles, and lots getting top finance roles in Canada.
Cool bro.
i went to Harvard. I had my pick of Bay Street roles
but if you think connections aren’t important in TO you are nuts. You can do it without them for sure. But there are very very few seats there so my advice to op is if you aren’t connected work like hell to differentiate yourself
and omg if you’re Indian 10x this advice. TO is filled with a tsunami of terribly low quality foreigners and you will be written off as part of that batch if you can’t find a way to distinguish yourself .
Words do not describe how much you piss me off with your entitled attitude and unearned confidence. You sound like a dickwad. There are a 1000 students smarter, harder working, and more polite than you. Hell, there's a 100 at Ivey alone. You'll never break in.
You must be a fragile person if words can make you this emotionally vulnerable. You’re even praying on my downfall. Regardless, hope you can find happiness in the new year.
I expect two reasons for your lack of success:
1. You believe that recruiting is part of the job of an investment banking analyst. It is not. That is the role of HR, and if an Analyst wants to, they can reply to networking emails. I used to get dozens of networking emails A DAY, it is unreasonable for me to reply to all of them. I have a whole job to do, a job which already expects 80 hours a week from me.
2. You believe that people not helping you because you are not part of their friend group is unique to Toronto, but in reality, is what you will find everywhere on Earth. Your failure to understand this is why you might not succeed as an investment banker. When an F500 company is looking to do an M&A transaction, do you think they will listen to a pitch from every bank? No, they will go to their relationships and hire the MD they are closest with. Relationships matter, and people help their friends, the sooner you realize this, the better.
Bro I swear this is just someone who hates Indian/Tamil/brown people and wants to make it harder than it already is for them to recruit
In the 5% chance that it's not then he must be severely autistic and needs to drop some acid or something for some deep self reflection on everything he just said on this thread
How the hell did I make it harder for Indian people to recruit?
And what did I say in this thread that calls for reflection? Pretending to be part of a minority group? That’s just me gaming the system and giving myself any advantage I can take.
This is HILARIOUS!!! Keep pushing.
And please continue updating us
sir please do not redeem the gift card
Casual racism but okay…
You did your outreach the week before Christmas? Bruh, we were all trying to crush our workloads to have a decently clear holiday. There are a million things that need to be done before year end, nobody serious taking time for coffee chats the week before holidays.
Most people aren't back till Monday. Send follow ups mid next week after everyone has had a day or two to breathe.
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