Hey guys,
So, as the title of the thread suggests, I have a bit of a conundrum. I have three offers from very different places and am struggling to decide which one I should take, so I was hoping you'd help me weigh up the pro's and cons of each one. But before I get into the offers themselves, it'd probably help put things into perspective if I tell you a bit about myself first. I'm a recent Oxbridge Math graduate (did my undergrad, masters and doctorate there), a serious computer geek and a bit of a hippy. As such, the types of jobs I've been looking for have been very quantitative in nature and here is what I've come up with:
1) Top tier prop trading firm (one of the ones discussed quite often on here). The salary is insane and the team I'd be joining is very profitable so the bonus potential would be equally high.
2) Well known technology company where I'd be working as a machine learning scientist. The base salary is good (not as high as the prop firm) but the job is very academic in nature so I doubt there would be much to rave about in terms of bonus.
3) A well funded technology start-up, where I would also be developing predictive computer models. The base is the lowest of the three, but it's based in California (I'm English, so sunshine and beaches are a novelty for me) and I would get stock options.
I also had offers from a hedge fund and another two prop firms, but of the four financial companies Option 1 above is the no-brainer first choice. I hate to be so vague, but for obvious reasons I need to conceal my identity.
I guess my hesitation at this stage is that I've never really been as drawn towards finance as some of the other people I've come across. The most important thing for me job-wise is to have interesting mathematical/statistical problems to work on, so I wonder if I'd be able to find that in finance? And to what extent would those problems be more or less interesting than in a technology company?
The other thing I'm concerned about is the working environment. I did a quant internship at a bulge bracket investment bank during my studies and really hated it. This was partly because I was given a lot of the donkey work and had to put up with ridiculous amounts of bureacracy, but mainly because I didn't feel like I fitted in with my colleagues. That's why I mentioned that I'm a bit of a hippy as I'm happiest around my kind. The prop firm didn't feel very corporate and is very technology oriented, but that might have just been their way of selling themselves.
Thirdly, money is an obvious criterion I have to consider. I have a little one on the way now and as much as I'd like to take the moral high ground and say that I'm not interested in money, I need to provide a financially secure environment for my family. Money-wise, Option 1 is pretty self explanatory. Option 2 is very safe and we can live a comfortable middle class lifestyle on what I'd be earning there, but there would be no flashy cars or penthouse apartments. Option 3 would be more of a struggle, but if the company takes of then those stock options would come in handy. I really believe in the product that they're building, but I must confess I'm pretty naive when it comes to business. So I wonder, what should I consider when deciding whether or not to join a start-up?
So, to summarise, my options are: 1) a financial company who pay really well but I have doubts about the nature of the work and the culture, 2) a technology company with interesting work and good careers stability, but limited upside, and 3) a high tech start-up again with interesting work and a product I really believe in, but relatively low salary and the obvious risk associated with start-ups.
Your help would be really appreciated. I'm not entirely sure what an SB is, but if I figure it out then I'll happily give you guys some.
Thanks!
if the prop firm is as tech oriented as you say, that will likely be your best bet in terms of interesting mathematical/statistical work...and at WSO, most people will likely have a bias towards the trading gig, so i would expect many people pointing you in that direction.
Hey mate congrats these are great options.
Option 1 has more risk that you think, and job security is inexistent without continuous performance for a prop trader -- you mention past profitability but that doesn't really guarantee future outcome. You might be paid that high salary in your first year, yet if the team tanks they may very well eliminate your group (if not in year 2 then year 3 - and trust me it wont be fun from your standpoint). Even if the team is consistently profitable in the future then it is likely due to some specialization - which means that this specialization will likely ringfence the broadness of statistical/maths problems you can attack. Further if you are even remotely unsure about Finance, keep in mind you will live and breathe it with a force you cannot imagine. Exit ops, needless to say, predominantly financial.
Considering all your variables I think Option 2 can provide you the mix of creativity and security you seem to want. Innovation is really paramount in established (you mentioned well known) technology companies. The pay is limited but your career progression will not be if you are good (which will eventually drive pay).
In the end you know best and your near-medium-and long term professional interests should weave into this choice.
congrats, cheers, and good luck
I'm completely inexperienced and probably shouldn't be given advice, but given your situation, I would personally think option 2 would be without a doubt the best opportunity.
IMO, it takes a certain type of person to enjoy something along the lines of the first option. The fact that you are even considering other options suggests that you're not that type of person.
Option 3 sounds too risky for your tastes and option 1 sounds like it would take too much time away from your family.
Hey guys,
Thanks so much for the advice. A big part of the reason I'm still considering the prop firm is the people who interviewed me - they were all MIT/Stanford/Caltech/etc. PhD's, so I figured if they've managed to find a home there then it may not be so difficult for me too.
I think I need to go and visit these companies under less formal circumstances. My girlfriend didn't come to the interviews with me, so it would be a good opportunity for us to check out the respective locations too. I know that it's fairly common in academic recruiting for there to be an informal visit after the offer is made, but I'm not sure about finance. Do you think they would be offended if I requested another visit? I will of course pay for our flights and accommodation myself.
Thanks again!
Disguise the "informal visit" as the opportunity to ask them questions, which will indicate your seriously considering their offer(s)
^^^That
I'm not sure how it works at such a high level for prop shop, but in finance in general, once you start working in a different industry it's pretty hard to break in (depending on many factors, most importantly where you went instead and what your performance was like).
It sounds like the work isn't going to be a breeze at the prop shop for you either, it will be challenging. I'd say take the "risky" offer first. You can probably still get a job at either of your other two options without much flak (what with your credentials... they seem legit at least). On top of this, you'll be working with people who speak your language.
Go talk to them again, I'd say. You could even go so far as to be honest about your concerns, but keep in mind they could very well rescind the offer if they think you're not into it.
I am generally a pretty risk-averse person, but I will recommend option 1 here, though I realize it carries the most risk. Sure, your team could go underwater and you will end up without a job. But the upside there seems much higher, given the bonus potential, and if things do go south, the incremental salary/bonus you had earned will carry you until you can find something like option 2. Given the number, diversity and quality of offers you have, I see no reason to not go for the option that pays best and has the highest upside. Sure, the start-up gives you stock, but as you said, you can't judge how successful it will be, and neither can we. With the start up, you have a downside roughly equivalent to that of the prop trading firm (not having a job in a year or two or three) but the upside of a large payoff is much less likely. Additionally, should you be unemployed in a few years, you will surely be able to get a job similar to option 2. And lastly, given all the offers you have received, you must interview pretty well, once again reassuring you that option 2 will always be there. Maybe even a different prop trading firm, or something else within finance.
In any case, best of luck to you, and congrats on the offers!
I would second Dr Joe - Take up Option 1. Option 3 is the easiest to eliminate - way too risky and the stage in life you are in I wouldn't recommend as of now (if you are still interested in entrepreneurship, do it after you have built some sort of a bank balance). From a layman's perspective, I would think that it is easier to move to the Option 2 if things do not work out with Option 1. I do not want to repeat all the arguments made above because I agree with them. Also, I think the fear with Option 1 may be more of the fear of the unknown - if you are not a socially challenged individual, people working in finance are in general nice + normal and not the demons made out on this forum (they just have more money on an average). Also, a BB environment may be different from a prop firm's. All the best with your move and let us know how it goes.
PS: Congratulations with the baby! With a 15 month old son of my own, I can tell you that it is an extraordinary experience. Also, I would think that your work hours will not be insane even at the prop trading firm, but your gf will still need to step up and take a lot of responsibility to bring him/her up.
Thanks mate. And congratulations to you too!
I still don't feel like a grown-up myself, so it's really quite scary to think that I'll soon have a kid of my own. But at the same time I don't think I've ever been so excited in my life. Everything else pales in comparison.
Thanks guys!
So we fly out to visit the prop firm and the tech company this weekend. After giving it a lot of thought, I rejected the offer from the start-up. If I'm honest, it was where I had my heart set because I really liked the people and my girlfriend and I both love the idea of living in California. But, as you all suggested, it's not a wise move at this stage in my life. I think what they're trying to achieve there will really help people, so I have my fingers firmly crossed for them...
I'll let you know how it all pans out. Thanks again for your advice - I really appreciate it!
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