I was all set to go to Tuck and even registered for their Admitted Students Weekend when Darden swooped in out of nowhere and triggered the nuclear option: a full ride.
Naturally that swung the penduluum. No MBA debt at a top school SHOULD be a no brainer.
But as far as intangibles like fit, students, environment, even the classes I sat in on I preferred Tuck. By a good- but not substantial- margin.
They're still pretty comparable overall in most areas, though. Only real difference is that Tuck is both Top 8 and Ivy (I admit it's a draw, but not 100k worth). I sent them word of the offer and will see what they respond with.
Incidentally, I have a frat bro who chose an MBA business schools<br /> ">M7 over a full ride at a top state school (think Andersen/Ross/McCombs) and he adv. that he was earning so much after graduation he barely noticed his loan payments. However, a top 15 full ride is a top 15 full ride, lol
What would you all do? I don't want to disclose my (tentative) decision so as not to influence the commentary, but don't worry, this isn't a Lebron type thing-I just want to know what people who are way more "in the know" than I am would do as a point of reference and an additional data point to make/support my case (or not, lol).
Shoot I'd have taken UVA, of course I love UVA. I'd honestly wait to see what Tuck offers. If you really like Tuck that much more, it might be worth it to shell out the money.
That said, I have never been and most likely will never be in this position, so... that's awesome and best of luck man!
See what Tuck says - they may offer you something substantial. Nevertheless, UVA is still a solid program, and I'm sure it will get it you where you want to go. AEither way, congrats!
I'm a tremendous fan of Tuck (applying there this fall), and even I wouldn't be able to turn down a full ride to Darden. I'd turn down the full ride for HBS, but Tuck and Darden are almost peers.
What are you looking to do post-MBA?
Given my age (32 now, or 34 when I graduate), I thought I'd focus on General Management....looking to get into a Rotational Leadership Development Program at a F500 (with presence overseas-but not a dealbreaker) or maybe back into Corporate Finance-this time with some rank (Corp. finance is terrible long term if you're a worker bee without an MBA). My endgame is to be a C-level exec, so that I can exit w/ that golden parachute, lol
Seeing older applicants succeed actually gives me hope (I turn 31 this year and will be applying in the fall).
Full disclosure: I'm a URM (GMAT 700, GPA 3.5, non-target undergrad). Your age really matters very little unless you're looking at H/S/W....to a point. Obviously you don't want to be 45 and looking to go full time MBA, lol. But I think older applicants just self select out. They've got families, mortgages, tuition payments, etc...they're too locked in to take years off. But at 31 you'd only be slightly above most medians (28 or so), which means tons of older candidates get in. It's young, my friend. And you're (theoretically) more likely to know what you want to do and have a detailed plan.
I actually think my age, for my particular case, was a benefit. For starters, I got spotted 3 years for my military service. Also, my resume was interesting in that over the past decade, I managed to work for 4 well known blue chip companies, with increasing levels of responsibility, in entirely different sectors. I was also a full time college student while working at 2 of them, so the ad coms seemed to like that I had enough polish, adaptability, and experience to pull that off-from a non target of all places. I milked that on the "what can you bring to our program?" questions.
2nd most important thing was the "why MBA" question. If your career goals are justified by the MBA and you have an interesting story, you'll at least get a hard look. They saw that I'd done everything SHORT of the MBA to prove I was management material, so the MBA was the only missing link.
I hope you apply EVERYWHERE you'd like to go, and don't let your age discourage you. I got into 3 top 20 programs, wait-listed at another. Play your cards right and your age will help!
If you are older and not IB focused, definitely Tuck. You'll appreciate NH more, will likely be able to work the very-close knit network better and build better relationships with profs, which are the strengths of the school. Also, they can probably close that cost gap somewhat (over/under would be 85k). Especially, you are a tech guy, go to Tuck as well, that might be the only F500 sector where prestige matters for corporate development jobs. Also, Dartmouth as an institution has some of the best international programs and overseas relationships, especially in Asia and the Middle East.
I'm curious -- why would the fact that he's not interested in IB lead him towards Tuck? Doesn't Tuck do pretty well with standard post-MBA IBD gigs (especially BB jobs in NYC)?
Since you're looking at F500, I feel like (just spitballing, have no actual data to back this up) the marginal difference in 'prestige' between Tuck and Darden is way less important than it would be if you wanted buy-side/IB/MBB consulting. They're prestige whores and shit and your recruiting might differ substantially. Much less so with F500? If that's the case Darden would be a great option for the $$$ and you're not even giving much up in terms of brand. Maybe someone else can confirm.
Congrats either way, and hopefully Tuck will give you a nice aid package now that you've got this shit from Darden.
F500's like Google and Amazon.com (maybe I should have said F100 instead?) seem to be turning into prestige whores as well, though. At least that's what I hear. Interested in getting some other takes on this...
Darden. Unless Tuck throws significant cash your way, and I suspect that they will. Do you have kids?
Looks like a consensus is forming.
@captainradio....no kids, no responsibilities, very little debt.
Tuck and Darden are separated by 'one level' in 'prestige'. Given you are an URM and looking at F500, you will get whatever you want from either place. Take the $100K, even though I am a big believer in go the highest ranked program you can.
Whichever you choose, go into it wholeheartedly and don't look back. The worst thing that could happen is for you to choose one and then regret not choosing the other. Based on the limited information that you provided, I think Darden would be a far better choice. I'm assuming you wouldn't have applied unless you were already sure that you at least like the school. I don't think the difference between "like" and "love" is worth the cost of the full ride, particularly given your career objectives. At the end of the day I don't think anyone can fault you for going one way or the other.
Also, CompBanker makes a great point with 'love' vs. 'like'. Again, that is a point you have to determine on your own.
Regards
Tossing in another vote for Darden - the separation is minimal, especially for F500, Charlottesville is a great town, and UVA is a fun school. Getting $150K on top of that makes it a no-brainer for me if I'm in your shoes.
how insecure are you? not mean to be an insult, but we are talking about an ivy league school vs a state school. And if you've been at a non-target before and care about your social image/status the 100k longterm may be a small amount. PS im not putting Darden down at all it's a great school but just saying what's in the back of many peoples minds.
You paint this as if its the difference between Dartmouth undergrad and Florida State. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
So then you would choose Cornell over GSB because the former is an Ivy?
The Ivy League distinction means nothing outside of undergrad prestige.
To be fair, Cornell, Darden, and YSOM are all peer schools.
I still think Darden is a better school than either of those, but they're certainly same tier.
One thing I'd like to highlight is Tuck's policy for on-campus recruiting:
For on-campus interviews, we require that every company reserve at least half its interview slots for assignment through a student bid process, giving all students equal opportunity to interview with the company of their choice. (http://www.tuck.dartmouth.edu/careers/employment-statistics/top-hiring-…)
I'm not sure if Darden has a similar guarantee, but you should see what the deal is, especially if you're a career switcher.
Getting a fair shot at your desired goals/opportunities regardless of professional background >>> full tuition IMO.
Great wisdom. SBd
Did you apply through the Consortium?
2 of the schools to which I applied were Consortium. I found out about it late when one of the schools I visited insisted that I use it to submit my app. Then they turned around and waitlisted me anyway,lol Got into Tuck via the Consortium but no fellowship as I didn't rank them #1 (in addition to my other weaknesses). It didn't help that I had done zero community service my entire life. My essay on the Consortium mission statement was terrible.
the other 2 were standard apps, one of which wasn't a Consortium school (Fuqua)
wow i would love to be in your position...
It seems like you've already decided on Tuck, but I would take Darden in this scenario. Unless money is not an issue due to having massive savings or a wealthy family.
Also, in before IP.
Also, whether or not your MBA program is at an ivy league institution makes virtually no difference, other than than a slight ego boost which is tenuous at best. If I had the choice to attend any business school, I would probably choose UChicago over almost all of the other schools.
Thanks. This is def. great to see confirmed. I actually got off the phone w/ a Darden grad last night whose over at Goldman and also came from a crappy undergrad. At this level, you make all the difference. I think Prestige really only matters in the white shoe industries like banking and law. Recruiters know precisely whom and where to target.
I'm actually waiting to see whether Tuck offers a decent aid package in the interim. If it's within the ballpark then yeah. If they tell me to fuck off then off I go. A free ride is a nice ride, and Darden is actually where I thought I was going to end up once my #1 waitlisted me. I just wanted to know how people "in the know" about these schools would proceed. It's weird-the people in my life who know shyt about b-schoolare telling me go prestige and loans, the ones who know how the whole thing works say take the money, lol
My only concern coming in was that my undergrad was so crappy that I'd need more cache on the MBA then normal to "make it". Apparently that isn't the case. I also wasn't sure how important intangibles such as "fit" were. They matter very little so long as you don't outright hate a place.
So to echo a lot of the other commenters, if you're only looking at F500, I don't see the incremental benefit of an Tuck vs a full ride at Darden, obviously wait to see what package you get from Tuck. In banking and consulting, Tuck probably gives you a boost because its a little higher but I would have to imagine that the difference in F500 recruiting between Tuck and Darden is minimal at best unless you're dead set on someone like Amazon or Google. Not to knock Tuck but if you have most likely just as good a chance at what you're targeting at Darden why pay more for the same job and salary at Tuck? (holding value of network, fit, etc. aside) Anyways congratulations, both are great schools.
OP, what do you think distinguished yourself enough to receive a full scholarship?
@ zeuscannon...
I honestly think it was my "unique" profile. Even among URM my profile was atypical. I imagine they just didn't have many people to which they could compare me, so it helped me stand out a little more. I wasn't a traditional Consulting/IB guy, and also my career trajectory and experiences have been a little unusual-I had a ton of exposure/experience at a variety of blue chip firms in different sectors-sectors from which many campus recruiters hail. Managed to snag a better job title with each move, too. My background is mainly Corporate Finance, though.
I think the GMAT helped (less than 2% of African Americans hit 700 or above, I discovered. And I plan to take it again to try to hit 730 or so). I speak fluent Spanish (having backpacked through Latin America, and taken 10 hour a day immersion courses at a number of Central American schools.). My French is now conversational (I take conversation lessons via Skype). Military background. Project Management Professional. Six Sigma certified (Green Belt). I was a CPAC delegate (I'm a Republican).
There are a few more things, but it probably reads like I'm showing off. Of course none of that stuff is the least bit hard to do-just time consuming. I managed to get most of it done after quitting the rat race for a bit, so it's unusual to see so much different shyt compressed into such a short time frame. But I was enjoying life, man. When I got my acceptance phone calls, 2 of the Admissions Directors kept me on the phone for several minutes just to discuss some of the things in my profile that caught their attention. I got the impression that not too many people (especially AAs) shared my profile, so I was hard to pigeonhole, and it prob kept me in alot of "maybe" piles. And I still got waitlisted by my top choice, which stings as I devoted most of my efforts to getting in there! But no point in being greedy. It's an honor just getting in where I did.
Unless you have killer stats (Ivy league, 3.9, 780, save the whales in your spare time while working on multibillion dollar deals), becoming the Dos Equis guy will be your best bet.
For 100k, way more when you consider the interest, and given your goals 100% Darden. Granted if Tuck came back with 50% or more I'd pause and rethink. But even it was 25% Tuck 100% Darden, I think Darden still wins out in my opinion.
are you a Jefferson Fellow @ Darden or normal? given you want to do f500, the 100k of school (its more like 110k or 115k) post tax dollars just FYI an whatever interest will build on that too.. thats a substantial amount
i love tucks network but not sure if its worth that much cash. id go darden
Nah full tuition merit. Had it been the Jefferson you can trust this post would have never gone up, lol
If Tuck can offer anything in the vicinity I will be happy (>70%). Figure I'd have to borrow another 80k (or more) at Darden anyway for 2 years living expenses and recruiting/networking/international trip costs. I paid off 50k in undergrad loans in 5 yrs making about half what most b-school grads make. 100k is doable since I'm not particularly interested in marriage or kids. Plus I've got decent savings.
However 150-200k is a dealbreaker. If I were 22 it wouldn't be, but at 32 that makes me pause. Especially since I won't NEED to borrow it. at 32 my tolerance for wasting time at a job i may possibly hate just to pay off loans is nil. Especially since I know how much fun it is to quit!
I can't really give much advice other than I worked with a couple guys who went to Darden and they were both awesome. I worked at a leading middle market bank. One of the two guys was the best Associate I've ever seen and he definitely had chances to work at BB banks, but he really liked the bank we worked at together. He also ended up moving on to a gigantic Fortune 100 company in a Strategy role after spending four years in banking. He has a wife and kid and absolutely loves his current role.
The only thing I've heard about Darden that was a "negative" is that the work load is apparently intense. It's less of a "vacation" than the other top schools. But, that's hearsay and I can't speak from experience.
I used a lot of "quotes" in this post. Weird. One more thing. You are definitely approaching this from the most grounded point of view I've just about ever seen on this site. Congrats on having two awesome offers!
Depends on what you want to do with your time there. Most people go to b-school for the network and connections. I went to a target undergrad with barely any financial aid (that whole "loan-less" ivy league aid for all students crap factors in a LOT of things...) and the only thing preventing me from saying that it was INCREDIBLY STUPID was all the connections I had made while going there (like Ashley Bush) where if I had gone to my state flagship for a full ride I would never have made such connections. Halfway through college, I showed a suitemate an app I had made and he showed his father, who was an exec at HP, who ended up contributing a helluva angel investment and we rolled up some guys from my CS classes and eventually took a semester off college to work on it. This, although not the sole determining factor, helped me A LOT to swing into upper circles and even helped me land an offer at a private equity firm straight out of undergrad (although i didn't end up taking the offer). With that said, Connections DO MATTER. It all depends on what you want to do with your time at either Tuck or Darden, so factor that into your decision-making as well.
Would Tuck hold a significant advantage for recruiting for IB jobs at BB and MBB roles in east coast cities in the southeast, mid-Atlantic, and NYC (no interest living long-term in Boston)? I also come from a crappy undergrad and plan to apply to Tuck and Darden next year but would like to stay on the east coast in one of the areas I just mentioned. I'm kind of new to the MBA game since I come from a non-profit background so I am curious if Darden is a respected degree at those top companies or if it does better at middle-market IB and consulting firms like Deloitte, Accenture, etc.
I don't think there is a significant advantage (in some cases, there is a significant DISadvantage picking tuck over darden, esp if you plan on working in DC,...) but the only time I'd vouch for Tuck over Darden is that you might make slightly more powerful connections through Tuck due to them being in the ivy network...otherwise, managers don't care and neither should you. It all depends on how much you bring to the table as an individual. Now, if you don't plan on working for someone else down the line and perhaps want to found a start up or, if you already have a start up, you might find better investors by going to Tuck. Depends on what you want to do with your time there.
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