I wish I could kick the shit out of my 15 year-old self.
The more and more I read on this wasteland of a fourm the more I fall into despair over my "non-target" undergrad.
When I was in high school, like most horny and shortsighted teenagers, spent my time goofing off in class and finding every excuse to sneak out. Senior year came around, and like many others, only applied to the state flagship and got accepted. Two years in, and I regret it.
My dad was an engineer by trade. He told me that the prestige of your undergrad is more or less an extremely small part of being hired. As a boomer, he had this old bootstrap mentality that as long as I worked hard and got good grades, I could walk into the boss's office with a firm handshake and a laminated resume, and it wouldn't matter what school I studied at. I wish that were true.
Junior year of a B.A in Economics, 3.87 GPA, and now I'm staring down the barrel of unemployment. Like a factory, my business school turned bright, starry-eyed upperclassmen, who dreamed of going into Venture Capital or Sustainable Investments, into drones for backoffice accounting or auditing, who made so little that they had to live in their parents' basements to still survive the ballooning cost of living. A good handful of them, nontraditional students, had to go back to the warehouses to throw boxes for an hourly wage while they kept applying for jobs a year on.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the state, are the targets, a land of milk and honey where TMT IB job offers are pinned to the cocktail olives in the dining hall, washing down the medium-rare steak. Where Goldman recruiters personally get down on their knees and elbows while pleading for the honor of these snot-nosed college kids to apply to their investment banking internships.
Let me tell you another story: My best friend is a total idiot. Like, a total trogladyte, even more than I was. Dispite being two years older, he was retaking Freshman High School English with me, since he failed out. During a reading of T.S Eliott's The Wasteland, he proceeded to ask, with gusto, what a metaphor was. I love him, but he isn't the brightest.
The one thing he was good at was Jazz Trumpet. We played in Jazz Band together, and man, he could've be the next Miles Davis or Chet Baker if he didn't sell out. Luckily, another school saw this and snatched him up once his auditions were over. Since music department admissions were separate from the rest of the school, he was able to get admitted to a T15 school through the backdoor.
Two years on, while doomscrolling LinkedIn, I saw he was now doing consulting at KPMG. I asked him what his GPA was in total: 3.2. Jazz Performance Studies, 3.2 GPA, $80.000 a year starting salary. Nuts.
We live in a finaiciallized prestige-fucked bazzaro world. Why would we hire students with a high GPA and a relevant major? No, let's hire Gender Studies and Art History majors from target schools and reject anyone outside of a group of 25 schools.
Man, what I would give to be Philosophy or Literature at a target school, and to be all but guaranteed (with a bit of elbowgrease, naturally) a six-figure white-collar job at the end. The only difference between the average target school kid and me is the fact that the former was more locked in at the bright fucking age of fifteen years old.
If you are fifteen and reading this: LOCK IN. Your high school grades literally determine the next decade (or more) of your life if you want to go into finance. That's not even considering the cascading effects of prestige that allow you to fall upwards. Want to erase your prestige-stain on your resume with a T7 MBA? Well, what's your first job? Oh, you were only able to get a job in auditing due to only having a degree from ASU? I hope you like tax forms then.
Thank you for anyone who has read this far; this is infinitely cheaper than therapy. A lot of this is naturally hyperbole, but I'm being serious for most of it. I feel so stuck, I don't know what to do. I'm transfering to a handful of targets now but it seems like if I don't make it I'm stuck in BO for life.
Not reading all that but low IQ boomers refuse to entertain the idea that in terms of opportunity this is not the world they grew up in.
The boomer advice is still correct. Unless op asked how can I get one of the most prestigious, well paid jobs ever.
You have to remember that basically no one actually gets a high finance job
Grow the fuck up
Yeah no wonder why you can’t get anything.
yeah I had boomer parents that didn't give direction either. Make lemonade and give your children the leg up you didn't have.
As a low-income liberal arts major at a t-20, I was able to study what I wanted to study and learned the techs on the side. Not sure why this is hard to comprehend. landed a fo job in t1 city post grad. Try not to be so negative, and maybe things can improve for you! Cheers!
did you miss the part about him being at a non-target state school? you are kinda proving his point.
Do I live in an alternate reality where he doesn't say "No, let's hire Gender Studies and Art History majors from target schools and reject anyone outside of a group of 25 schools." ?
Actually, the difference between you and someone at a target is that kids at target schools don’t give up and start complaining on WSO when they’re getting fucked. They keep pushing and move onto the next plan. Instead of hating yourself for not trying harder five years ago, how about you realize that you can try harder today
I agree OP should focus on changing what he/she can and not dwell on past but your characterization of the difference between students at targets vs non-targets is not accurate. I went to a target and large % of my class went to elite boarding schools, with parents in finance/corporate law/etc and often alumni of targets themselves. It's a lot easier to end up in a target when you go to a HS where all your peers are aiming for targets, with HS admissions services tailored to supporting this, possible legacy benefits in admissions, and no/little financial constraints.
Being at a target really makes the whole process so much easier, and if anything non-targets who end up in finance on average would be more like the way you describe kids at targets (i.e., the hunger/resilience).
I was in the ringer for ~17 months for recruiting. Started November 2022, Ended briefly March 24, started back up from July - October 24. Sophomore year I was networking like crazy, had some great opportunities but fumbled through IB recruiting empty handed. I was getting close to Sophomore summer too woth nothing lined up, but I kept kicking and literally Mid-June I landed at a large cap Biopharma company FP&A. Pulled that shit out of the fire. Returned to recruiting for Junior year come August, interview after interview I was sharper, more technically sound and networked harder. I actually got an offer for a PB role at BofA. Nice cushy $95k/40hr work week, but turned it down bc I wanted something bigger (hella fucking stupid of me but whatever). Interview after interview I was hitting the superday then falling short. I was interviewing for a deloitte winter internship and fell short after a 15 minute call with the partner. Fucking blew. Then at a large AM I was interviewing for I crushed the interview, networked unbelievably hard, actually introduced one of the associates to a friend of mine at a different firm. Crushed the superday and then was denied cuz some fat bitch was on my case for no reason and they ended up picking some retard, according to my friends who went to school w him. January 24 here I am with no offer for summer 24 and hella depressed but I kept applying cuz what the fuck else do I have better to do? February rolled around, I cold applied to a tiny tiny credit fund and remember waking up 5 minutes before the interview and actually got it (And what a journey its been with those guys since). A month later I applied to an IBD position at a well known MM, and got it for summer 24 in March. Pulled that shit out of the fucking fire. Within 1 month I went from being a bum to it all turning around. Its not over until you say it is.
fucking grinder - lifefuel
Hell, yeah bro, that’s the kind of inspiration we all need
This guy is going to be an MD someday.
I come from a very similar background to what you mentioned. I went to a mediocre public high school, played sports, dated girls, and just goofed off. I still had amazing grades, but it didn’t really matter because I was able to get into my desired in-state school (funny enough, ASU).
Parents who aren’t from this elitist environment and come from more blue-collar jobs will tell you that “college is college… it doesn’t matter where you go. Just go” — and they’re wrong.
I showed up to ASU in 2018, clueless about what I wanted to do. I’ll spare you the details, but long story short, I busted my ass day and night for well over a year to get that junior summer internship. And I got it. At a BB.
Yes, you’re right. The majority of the student body will graduate and not be able to afford to live on their own. It’s sad. And target school kids have such an incredible advantage (they don’t even realize it). But you just have to grind it out. Don’t give up.
On-cycle recruiting is great, but there are plenty of other opportunities that will come along throughout your college career. Network relentlessly (I’m talking about flying out every six months for coffees). Get local internships at LMM shops during the semester. Be a technical genius.
It is not over for you.
Were you in IBIS
Yes, I was in the ASU circle jerk aka IBIS
Were u a frat leader by chance at ASU
This read as corny and pathetic. You can land IB from any school. Kid sitting next to me went to university of Arizona to save money. No diversity, no hooks, no rich parents. But extremely hard working. He's at an EB and will be at an UMM next year. The finance industry is as meritocratic as it has ever been and it isn't even close. You think that you deserve to make six figures just because you want to make six figures? Get a grip.
And FYI, complaining about your life being over is ridiculous. Literally look at any Booth/Kellogg/CBS associate's undergrad school--they were all underachievers in HS and frankly in college too.
I screwed around in HS and went to a state school my freshman year. That year I retook the SAT, got a 4.0, started a NPO, and transferred to a T10 where I kept a 4.0 and landed an EB offer. If I hadn't gotten accepted for transfer, I would have just tried again the following year, reclassed, and recruited again. Why are you crying about failure when you haven't even tried?
Similar high school story to yours (but I wasn't trying to skip classes lol). Just didn't know to grind. Things came relatively easy to me in terms of schoolwork, so I did what every other self-respecting teen was doing - grinding mw2 (definitely aging myself here). All I wanted to do was prestige and get nukes. I thought I was "super cool" because I stopped at 9th prestige instead of hitting 10th, because I already had all 10 classes unlocked, and let's be real... I was noob tubing my way to nukes, so I didn't even need 10 classes. I honestly did like the 9th prestige emblem more than 10th tho.
Anyway, went to one of the top state schools, but it's just a state school. Not a target, not really known in the street, no real connections.
My dad was a boomer engineer who also said hard work is what sets you apart, and just grades will get me everything. Sigh.
Found out about finance careers and "high finance" like senior year, and had no shot at all. Ended up getting an MSF in hopes of correcting it, but still didn't make it happen. Got a decent strategy / ops job at a start-up, which was ok, and was in NYC so I could potentially pivot (or so I hoped). Paid $75k I think, which was fine in NYC pre-covid. We got bought out and then.. Covid hit, everything went remote, I moved home because fuck NYC rent in an empty city lol. Got to save and dump a bunch of money into our espp, which was nice, and somehow moved to a shit role with a decent title at GS. Now actually working on the street.
There's a lot of different paths to get to wall street and make a lot of money in this field, if you really want. As someone from a family of immigrants who never knew about finance or Wall Street (aside from the 08 crash making my family move across the country to live cheaper), it's hard to learn about it too.
I think the most important thing is to not compare yourself to others, especially those you run into who have been on the "traditional" path of 2+2+2. Everyone's life is different, and you are where you are.
Now that I'm here, making decent money, I miss the fun, simple days of my start-up or just grinding nukes on mw2 lol. Life goes quick, and it goes quicker every year, so do your best to enjoy it while you are working for a better future.
I didn’t know shit about college and never tried in high school. Neither of my parents went past high school.
I knew nothing about jobs out there (definitely didn’t know about banking or consulting), so I studied accounting for a stable career and started in Big 4 audit making peanuts. Still worked my tail off and was a top performer.
Realized transaction advisory existed, asked to switch, and was allowed to (because I was a top performer). I became top bucket in TAS, got early promoted, and was making $200k 5 years into my career.
I was then admitted to multiple M7 with scholarship. Recruited for banking.
You can’t change the past. Am I bummed I didn’t try harder in high school? Sure. But everything happens for a reason, and if you put your head down and work hard, good things will happen.
touch grass plz
There are loads of 15 year olds out there if you're into that
Wild
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.
I don’t agree with this at all. Education is extremely important, and the institution you attend may determine your future, but if you have solid mentors who will sponsor you and you work extremely hard to obtain the right certifications or credentials, then it won’t technically matter where you attend. A lot of people at 15 aren’t thinking about their future, but honestly, I was lucky because it was all I thought about. When I was in 8th grade, I read More Money Than God by Sebastian Mallaby about hedge funds in the Deep South, and I was the only person in my school who ever read that book. I even received a compliment from my teacher, who said she wished she had read a book about hedge funds in the 8th grade. In other words, you’ll be fine—just continue to work hard and align yourself with like-minded individuals or people who are already succeeding.
Kids from alternative study paths at top schools don't deserve the seat? Maybe you should realize that they already did land a fucking seat. At a top school. Your jazz friend isn't mediocre or undeserving, you said he's a world class talent in music. Big firms screen for exceptionalism, and he sounds pretty damn exceptional if you ask me. I'd pick a kid with proven exceptionalism by passing an ultra-selective screen for it with an alternative perspective over any high GPA state school kid who didn't do anything to stand out and complains instead of doing what it takes to be that person.
Did you miss the part where he essentially fell into the role? Are we really hiring people with no experience in finance with mediocre grades compared to hardos (or to normal people, working-class people trying to get a leg up in life) with relevant work experience and a high GPA?
I've seen this pattern of target fuckers falling upwards with almost no effort while the majority of non-targts get no jobs. We non-targets can't even find solace in a stable back-office life with shit being outsourced to SEA and India.
"Target fuckers." You mean exceptional people who've gotten into the most selective institutions on the planet? Quit your whining and maybe try working towards being a more impressive person like the one OP was crying about. Best of luck to you.
Your dad’s right for engineering.
Your friend works at KPMG and you're glazing? Maybe set your bar for defining "prestige" a liiiittle higher...
That said, I understand the frustration and certainly wish I'd cared more in HS. I also struck out on banking/buyside out of college, ended up going the corporate route to start so perhaps try giving that a shot?
The kids who try harded in high school look back and regret that they didn't enjoy their only period of freedom in their life
Lmao this forum is pathetic, imagine being this passionate over wanting to be a wagecuck
Like for fucks sake there are literally teenagers and 20 nothing year olds pulling multiples of y’all’s salary
just joking
the Cope is strong with this one
It’s brutal how much weight is put on where you were at 15-18 years old. The "prestige-stain" is a real thing in IB and VC, and the gap between target and non-target resources is a canyon. Good luck with the transfer, it’s honestly the best move if you want to avoid the BO trap.
Living your life in regret is not productive. You can make it even you did not go a target school. I did not go to a target school and I would not pay to go to a target school unless its name was Harvard, Columbia or Princeton or somewhere similar. but that is just me. I would not want the nearly half a million in debt that you could have after graduating. If you go to a target school, you have much better chance of getting into IB. Sure, you would make a lot of money but also work twice as many hours as everyone else. I would rather work in asset management where there is a better balance of comp and life
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It’s frustrating to see high-GPA students in relevant majors get overlooked just because of the logo on the diploma.
The contrast between your grind and the 'backdoor' success of others is the perfect summary of how broken the recruiting pipeline can feel.
That's on you. I was also a horny and short-sighted teenager fucking anything that moved in high school and drinking every weekend. I also was efficient with my time, got accolades, and got into an Ivy. You can be a fucking shithead and be good enough to be at an Ivy.
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