Is anyone else increasingly considering either leaving NYC or moving to NJ instead whenever WFH is over? The amount of actual damage done by the rioting was somewhat underreported (a significant part of lower manhattan retail was destroyed and is still closed) and it seems the high cost of living + low quality of life sacrifice is no longer worth it in a socially distanced city.
Longer-term, I wonder if front office jobs increasingly relocate somewhere else - but it seems a bit early for those conversations to be happening.
I'm in a similar situation and really considering moving to the Cayman Islands/somewhere else with no or lower taxes and fewer people
I grew up in a big city ver similar to NYC so it never really bothered me living here, but NYC(and the US more generally) is turning to shit
Do you own your own UK-registered business? Not really how this stuff works
Most people I know have left, only ones that are here are those with dogs (who are going to leave soon) or SOs who are doctors/ dentists. I know many, many people who put their shit in storage, ran out their leases and hauled ass out of the city. Lot of people working from upstate, out East, cape cod, etc or Florida. My lease isn’t up until January but I’ll be back and holed up by then. Not sure how many people are planning on being back until 2021, if at all, though
Who are these ppl? Bankers or college students?
Mid-level Finance, law, consulting, Corp finance
Just move to places like Rutherford, etc... it’s cheaper, less noise, less traffic and by bus, it took me 15 minutes to get into the city and the bus comes every 5-10 minutes. By train, it was slightly longer because you have to take the path, so it wasn’t ideal but NJ is the place to be. Save money, less crowdedness and the night life isn’t too far. There is Hoboken and you can always go into the city whenever you want with Uber/Lyft, again, not so much the Path because it runs infrequently super late at night.
I think you bring up a good point on the broader issues with NYC.
It is clear that we have hit a tipping point both socially and financially for the city over the next 10 years. The city is already bleeding money -> less safe / dirtier / less services / less stable -> more rich people move out -> hike taxes on existing rich -> more rich leave -> vicious cycle continues as services get worse and worse. It is unspeakable how terrible De Blasio is.
For those who do not have to stay in the city, why not move to a red state like TX/FL and pick up 25% on your net pay?
If you need to be around NYC, I agree Hoboken should be the big beneficiary near term - It is as close as you can get to NYC, while still being in a city, and not dealing with all the shit. The south portion has mostly younger professionals and the north portion is quiet and has families. NJ is not ideal, but a far cry from NYC. Demographics are decent and it's pretty safe and quiet. Pricing is also relatively affordable for real estate. I think the most expensive apartments ever sold there are in the 3mm range and super nice (Eli Manning and Corzine had them) - extremely bullish.
I agree - seems feasible without a car too if you can live by the PATH station.
Not a foodie, so the only real benefits to NYC for me are proximity to work and bars. If the latter are closed or run out of business, I don't see any reason to keep getting fucked over by taxes, rent, rising crime and low quality of living. The extra 10 minutes on my daily commute would be more than worth it for a cheaper and nicer apartment.
I'm from one of the red states you mentioned and was supposed to move to NYC next year. While I can see the reasons people complain about NYC, I really think there is no better place for a person in their 20s in finance. The opportunities along with the nightlife is unparalleled. People like to complain about NYC weather but it is HOT AF in those two red states for 6-8 months out of the year. Also if you're working the long hours of banking or pe, nobody really understands why and you are the minority. Everythings closed when you finish work... I get why people who have a family would want to move down here, but for young people, the grass really is not greener. Just my 2c... I really hope the young people don't all flee NYC
There's always going to be young people here. The ones who are leaving now most likely are the ones who would leave once their 2 banking years are up. Don't even worry, people still are moving to New York and want to live here. Hell, I've been here for about 5 years and plan on staying another 5 more at least.
I definitely don't think that young people will want to flee. It doesn't make a lot of sense if you aren't making that much money, but two things will happen:
1) Their bosses and senior people with families will flee for taxes and quality of life. 2) Companies will realize that junior jobs can be done effectively remotely. I heard a rumor JPM was considering moving most IBD analysts to Dallas (maybe someone can confirm).
In your 20s, absolutely, there's nothing like NYC in America, no questions about that. You won't stay in your 20s forever. At some point, you start to plan for what your adult life is going to be and spending your life in NYC has some challenges and that was very true pre-covid. Once you start thinking about buying a place with enough space for kids, look at the school situation, figure out a retirement plan, you're left with 3 options: earn fuck-you money, work harder and longer than you would want or do some meaningful sacrifices (ie. live in a cramped place, send your kids to public school, etc). I know pretty much everyone on this site starting their career assume that they will earn fuck you money, but unfortunately that's not the case. All of that to say that at some point, something's got to give.
jersey city also. jersey city is great.
I'm sensing weakness here. Didn't we all move to NYC to experience what is has to offer? Not the BO hub that is Jersey.
Yeah times suck right now, but it will get better. De Blasio will get voted out and we will have another mayor like Giuliani. COVID will subside eventually. Rents will stabilized (actually I don't know...hopefully). The fucking taxes though is the one things that bites me. I am with you all there.
I think you're being a little optimistic assuming that New York will go in the opposite direction of De Blasio. Every single Congressional district in NYC has a Democratic congressional representative, and a good amount of people still find ideas like rent control and a GND to be appealing. People tend to like what sounds good politically rather than effective legislation that's more non-intuitive.
nobody:
people from ny: i live in new yawk. i have three roommates. two of dem are rats. we eat pizza fawh dinnuh every night. de rent? 4000 dollars a SECOND
Dayum why all the MS? One of my roommates was a roach so don't forget those little guys.
nyc is toast. rather live in jersey city, way nicer of a place.
This is absurd. A "significant" amount of Manhattan retail was in no way, shape, or form "destroyed". Yes, windows were smashed, and even more were voluntarily boarded up. I know a couple bars that had a window broken - they were open for business again within days. I also know of a bunch of places that got looted - do you know how many storefronts there are in downtown Manhattan alone? To say a "significant" portion of them were looted means thousands, if not tens of thousands.
In other words, go back under the bridge, troll.
Also, people live here because there is shit to do. Anyone who likes a quiet and slow pace of life wasn't living in NYC anyway. The fact that the city is socially distanced right now does not mean it will be in 2 years. And people so dumb that they make major decisions and incur major costs like those associated with moving based on a month of data, generally aren't the kind of people who would move to NYC in the first place.
If you like cities, NYC is just as viable an option as it ever was. If you don't, it's just as terrible. No one is going to move to Tulsa, OK because they don't like the social distancing in NYC (which, to reiterate, has been extraordinarily effective).
I observed the ridiculous "all lives matter" angle as well.
I live here too bud, doesn't make me a racist to point out entire blocks of boarded up retail. If you think that's not a problem then that is your opinion.
I personally do see it as a problem and acting like parts of SoHo, WV, Bowery, LES etc. were not robbed and are back open in any meaningful fashion is explicitly lying.
Lol what. You can sell your old furniture, or even store it, for $100-200 a month with one of the storage startups. They even come and move your shit for you (either for free or for a one time payment) and will drop it back off wherever you want.
How is saving $3-4K per month on rent a dumb decision when everyone has left and there’s no reason to stay? I’ve been working in the shade next to a pool and walking to the beach every night. It’s like MDW just every day. There is absolutely no reason to stay in the city right now
The strong implication in the original post was that they were moving for more than a month or two.
Yeah I highlighted it because I think mass social unrest is a fair reason to consider moving across the river, but your "everyone I disagree with is racist" argument is very compelling.
Mass social unrest? Relax bud, it's not that serious. Also, not sure how more socially restful NJ would be - the fight against police abuse isn't going away anytime soon, apologies if that inconveniences you. Speaking on it simply in the context of a few isolated riots says alot about how you view the world though.
Also, I never called you racist so stop with the red herrings.
I think we all know "All lives matter" implies - but I would say watching 50+ people break into and rob the stores on my street with no police in sight should qualify as an "inconvenience".
Lol @ you saying “the fight against police abuse” on a comment talking about not wanting to live near rioting and looting. The busted out windows and stolen merchandise in lower Manhattan really showed those cops who’s in charge!
You’re like a religious fundamentalist who needs to prove his faith over and over again - someone mentions rioting and looting and you claim this is “all lives matter” - which is an incoherent response on multiple levels. Just say that any social commentary you disagree with is blasphemy and move on.
He may have a point if there were any indication that the riots are set to be a recurring thing, which there isn't. Yes, it's "all lives matter" to imply that a few riots that occurred over ~2 weekends entails irreparable damage to the very proposition of living in NYC moving forward. It makes no sense and him choosing to draw attention to it as if NYC's storefronts are forever lost is what's absurd.
Lol “just a few riots” for a couple weeks, no big deal. Come on, people don’t want to live near that shit.
What’s next for being “all lives matter” btw? Physical safety and social rest are anti-black now, what else?
I've said what I have to say to you. Not wasting my time with some online troll who's being purposefully obtuse to serve their agenda.
Oh come on. I live in nyc, right by all of these “massive riots” and it is perfectly fine.
Were there a few people who opportunistically used the protest to rob stuff? Absolutely. Was it widespread and as crazy as many people have made it seem? No, not at all.
I am surprised that people who claim to live in nyc say that this was more than a few isolated incidents. I live essentially in the middle of this, and feel perfectly safe, but to each their own.
And I love nyc. While there is less to do right now, there is normally so much to do (food, art, entertainment, even something like travel)
These arguments aren't rooted in any sort of intellectual honesty.
I disagree. Were these 1968 riots or the NYC draft riots from the civil war? Of course not. But they were large enough and violent enough for people to question putting up with all the BS to live here.
What BS to live here?
99.9% (or higher) of the people are peacefully protesting systemic racism. They are peacefully marching down the street, rightfully demanding justice.
There are definitely some messages which are more extreme. There are also opportunists.
But the BS of living here? Living in downtown, I have barely been disrupted (happened more during the beginning of the protests). And I 100% agree with the right to peacefully protest and to demand justice. NYC is an important city to this country and will be where major movements happen, but outside of a few bad people/groups they have not caused damage to the community. If the BS you mean protests, yes those will happen here, maybe people are uncomfortable with that, and that’s ok, it is a personal preference.
Ha it’s not my opinion that people are leaving. Read the rest of this thread. Look at rents. Is it mostly Covid? Of course, but people don’t want to live in some super tax heavy, increasingly violent city when they can GTFO. If rioting is “protesting racism” then it just makes the movement weaker.
It’s so bizarre to see posts like yours, I offer criticism and it’s “omg they are protesting systematic racism you gotta problem with that?”. Literal religion to people, it’s unbelievable.
What are you talking about?
I addressed your point about the “BS of living there”. I have not seen any issues, I personally don’t see any issues with what is going on.
My point about the protests was saying that I think what is happening with protests is good and exactly what our country was built off of. Just saying that this will happen in major cities and especially in nyc, some people don’t like it, that’s fine. I struggle to see how you try to connect the riots with the protests, I’m unsure why you feel the need to add riots to each thread.
As for the articles about people moving out, it has been addressed, they are not definitive and based mostly on speculation. I agree it could lead to more people moving out, but I think it is way too early to tell.
The tax diff has been there the entire time and hasn’t caused any issues, unsure what makes this time different. I find the opportunities in and around nyc to be much better than other places.
Again, others may disagree and time will tell, but I think you are sensationalizing the protests in a way that doesn’t represent reality.
Honest question here. Could you please give a modern day example of systemic racism (opposed to regular racism)? So an institution or system in modern day USA would fit the bill - but the only systemic racism that I can identify actually hurts asians and low income whites aka affirmative action. If you can think of one, we should fix it.
I haven’t been in months until recently...what a disaster lol. Lucky for me I’m going to b-school because I wouldn’t want to be around that dumpster fire right now. There has been like 110 shootings in the past week or so. I am born and raised in NYC and I can say with some level of confidence that things are headed downhill fast. A lot of the people who have moved here in the last 5-10 years haven’t seen it when it was dangerous.
DeBlasio is doing wonderful things for the city. #TheNewNewYork
Warren Wilhelm, what a guy
'#BringBack90sNewYork
NYC set several records for the lowest crime rate in NYC history under Del Blasio... a temporary spike in the crime rate isn't that surprising given current economic conditions. Ik the Fed pumping money into the markets would have you believe everything is just fine but we are going through the worst recession since the great depression, and crime is correlated with the economy.
Hey Bob,
Thanks for that nugget...I'm going to get my spiral notebook and come back in a bit to jot that down.
Let's see how this "temporary crime spike" plays out. Out of 800 gun arrests this yr in NY, 40% are currently out on bail or "supervised release." Let's see how this plays out.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/nyc-shootings-2020-last-nig…
Barry Sternlicht predicts that NYC office and apartment rents will drop by as much as 25%, and that 1/4 to 1/3 of NYC hotels will go bankrupt.
https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/sternlicht-says-virus-plus-riots-e…</a">https://www.bloombergquint.com/onweb/sternlicht-says-virus-plus-riots-e…
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