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~$50m
It’s gotten lower as the path to it has gotten clearer, which is probably pretty common, so it might be like $20m in 5 years.
Great username
Honestly no idea. I remember in high school this kid said “I’m not having kids until I make 6-figures”. We thought it was so much money back then. Not to downplay $100k, but it’s nowhere near what it was when the whole “6-figures” thing originated.
Used to think a millionaire meant you’re king of the world. I recognize it’s still a lot of money, but it’s not Lambos and mansions money.
I’d love to have a mansion with several cars and take international first class vacations multiple times a year. Running the numbers, feel like I need $5M net worth to start doing that. Also don’t see how I could just stop working once I start making $1M+ a year, as that is so much money and would give my family more security each year.
I spoke with my dad recently - he has worked hard for 30+ years, spending frugally. Could easily retire now, but he gets a substantial windfall from his company if he stays until “retirement”, which I believe is 67 years old going from a national retirement age view.
That’s another decade of work. Not using specific numbers, but say you made on average $100k for 30 years. That’s $3M. Ignore capital gains. Work another 10 years but average $500k in annual compensation from the job. That’s $5M. You more than double your savings for your family.
Coming from a first generation immigrant family, I do not see any universe where my dad retires early.
Enough rambling - I don’t have a number. I have financial goals such as minimum 2 kids at private school and private university, so call that $1M minimum. More like $1.5M. House on multiple acres not middle of nowhere, so call that $3M. A few cars call it $1M. So around $5.5M is what I need to earn by the time I’m 50 years old.
Honestly, just saw the earlier post about the $5m windfall guy and to share my insights, I'm already at close to $4m net worth before age 30, but it's definitely nowhere near "mansions and several sports cars" money you envision it to be. Considering I was a scholarship student in college, I still don't think I can afford the "upper class" upbringing that you are describing (which sounds like the upbringing described by my college friends who went to Exeter/Andover etc). Funny stories about how even some of the Exeter guys once talked about "I hope that I become rich enough so that my kids can get into the RICH frat/secret society in college". Really shows the hopelessness of that endless rat race, which definitely inspired me to take my ticket out of IBD when I could.
I would say probably closer to a $10m net worth (not total income, actual after-tax cash+investments+real estate worth that amount) is probably what's needed to really be sustainable for elite tier private school tuition at 40-50k a year, top 20 private university at 80-90k annually, and the multimillion dollar mansion and sports car collection in addition to sustaining that lifestyle in retirement. You see a lot of similar discussions on reddit's fatFIRE group which generally talks about old retired executive couples or startup founders who cashed out for 10m+ in order to really sustain that lifestyle without working. Of course, if we aren't talking NYC/SF tier spending and you are fine with downscaling to a more affordable area where private high school tuition is 15-20k instead of 60k, yes your numbers will be more realistic. In a similar manner, I'm focusing on "net worth to retire", which is entirely different than if you are working the entire time.
For context, I'm still out here driving an old Toyota, living in the 2k sqft suburban house that somehow still costs nearly a million (nowhere even near the big cities), and still avoiding eating out to pinch pennies. Could I buy a Lambo today in cash? Yes, but I'd much rather keep earning that minimum of 5% treasury yield (or up to 7-8% equity yield) instead. I know that perhaps I'm a bit too frugal given I see my cash as investment assets instead of actual cash to be "spent", so I only "play" with the yield on that amount. For instance, general guideline is withdrawing 3.5-4% maximum to avoid touching nest egg of $4-5m. That means you get approximately 150-200k of "fun money" per year once you actually have $5m in cash. Keep in mind you'll probably need to work enough to earn somewhere around 10m before you can save up that $5m cash given taxes and life expenditures along the way (although investment returns will eventually start supporting your cause down the line).
if you don't mind me asking how'd you hit 4mm before 30? Hedge Fund? That's incredible.
Tough to ans as depends on my medium term outlook eg right now at 10m would be tough to justify working. But at 10m I'll be older and will have a better near term outlook etc.
But probably abstracting that away, something like 25m. I need to be able to live in opulence in nyc for me to consider stopping ie not just move to some low CoL place with 3m in the bank
no number, the only thing that will make me walk away from it is receiving a CIA inviting me to join them
otherwise no idea what I would be doing with so much free time, work gives me a perverse sense of purpose
Trust me, if they ever reach out, they will want you to keep working lol
Depends on what age and family status. If single, then $10ml would easily be enough to quit and start my own thing
if a family of 4-5, then we’re talking closer to $20ml
No number for me. I love my job.
Don’t think I’ll ever call it quits, but number is probably $5mm to not give a shit anymore and be that guy who logs in at 8 and is unreachable after 8pm and weekends / holidays. Until then I will continue to be my Partners’ biatch.
$3-5M. Will eventually inherit a few million from my parents. Thankfully, growing up - I never had to really worry about money and probably never will as I'm not a big spender / always been frugal as an adult.
If a stay a wage slave, probably 3m liquid.
If I start my own whatever company, probably never.
The longer I work the higher the number gets. Years ago $5M would have done it. Now, I'm not sure $15M will. Sad really.
Would you say that’s because of life style inflation?
Without a doubt. You get used to a standard of luxury and it bleeds into various aspects of your life without even trying to be a douchebag or anything.
It's not just that it's oppty cost. At 20 your npv is just lower and so the indifference point is much lower. At 30 your earnings potential / npv much higher etc. It's pure rationality even outside of subjective notions of lifestyle creep etc
This. I have read where people who FIRE'd at $1M just to go back to work shortly after.
Interestingly, my "number" has decreased as I get older... Now it is time my "number"... Time for me, family, friends, or even works but at my pace and under my "rules".
So yeah, a level of quality living is a base and must-have, but I've distanced from the frantic dollar goals in the enjoyment of life, as I am starting to feel it (less material things, more meaningful experiences, relationships).
Probably it is also a function of having achieved some financial base throughout the past years.. hard to say. But no need for millions for mansions and lambos... Decent home, nice vacays and education and experiences for the kids... And time. Just my take....
The number is fluid. Mostly dependent on how much my spouse brings to or removes from the table.
Depends on where and how I retire, there’s a spectrum. For degen unmarried expat retirement on an island in SEA, I would need around $1M liquid and maybe $3-5M in retirement accounts. Seems feasible and might be able to do this in my late 30s.
But to retire in a nice area like Greenwich, Park City, NoVa, or SoCal with a wife and kids in nice schools I would need at least $25M+. Don’t even know if I want that family life. I’m about to become an uncle for the first time. Spoiling my niece might be enough for me.
Your d might fall off within a year of being a young degen with that kind of money in SEA. 99% of the expats/nomads there are living on like $2,000 a month, with a random guy here and there that's a millionaire and they're usually old.
Haha definitely agree that you don't need that level of money to retire in SEA. At this point, I've started looking towards even Japan, Korea, or Taiwan as still quite affordable options at the $4-5m asset level. As roc said below, $2k a month is plenty to live a decent barebones lifestyle in SEA, and at 4-5k, you have access to top tier services across Manila's BGC, Pattaya/Bangkok in Thailand, or Bali etc. I think the absolute peak cost might be somewhere around 10k a month if you want to live in some of the most expensive areas (without going into multimillion/billionaire territory), but that's honestly excessive and just there to show off. Feasibly SEA rent will be somewhere around 1k a month for regular living, 2-3k for luxury, and maybe add another 1-2k for hired help/services like a maid/driver/chef etc. At that point, technically just $1-2m in investments will sustain you through passive income going by the 4% withdrawal rule.
On the other hand, as you said, once you get roped into the marriage trap, you'll find a bottomless pit where you do indeed need 10-20m+ and that still won't be enough. The truly expensive areas are really excessive and honestly don't offer significantly better quality of life compared to what you could get for a tiny fraction abroad (I regularly joke with quant friends that I could easily live better on 40k a year in Asia than their 400k in NYC). That's just the premium needed to live the "American dream" to send kids to a good school these days. Don't get me started on private school and university tuitions (which now sometimes even break 100k a year for undergrad). I think that ultimately I realized that I hit my "number" early enough that I decided I'd rather give up having a wife and kids than spend another 20-30 years slaving away in finance just to provide that American Dream "lifestyle". Still working on some personal business stuff to keep the income flowing while I start working remote as a nomad, but I know it could go bust any day now and I'll be ready to fully retire once it does go to 0.
If you gave me 20mil post tax today I’d call it quits
My guess is the real number is a lot higher than most people think/want to admit.
I enjoy what I do, so I keep coming up with reasons for my number to get larger and larger. First it was enough that I could live off a drawdown, then it was so I could live off the passive income without touching the principal, now it's a bigger number... expectations change. Lifestyles change. The things I bought and did and spent money on at 24 are different than at 34 and are different than they will be at 44. Living with 2 roommates and drinking well whiskey and lite beer was awesome then, but not my dream night anymore. Every mountaintop you summit just opens up another goal in the distance.
$5M net, and I hope it doesn't change.
The rough breakdown of that would be a $1M residence ($500k house, $500k land) owned free-and-clear (likely a high estimate, just need a 3BR/3BA on some acreage within an hour from a metro), $1M in retirement that continues to appreciate before I need to access it, and $3M invested earning 5% for $150k of annual income. That income would likely be supplemented by the wife and I working part-time (additional $50k should be easily achievable).
That $200k is ~$150k net and would be roughly budgeted to:
There isn't a ton of wiggle room in the budget, but in case of emergency I could access funds easily (roth IRA, a small loan against the house, liquidate a small portion of the portfolio, etc) without overextending. I don't have terribly expensive tastes related to cars, watches, clothing, etc and the only luxury I would want to enjoy is a real nice restaurant once a month or so.
Now it might be 15+ years before I get there, so who knows.
From the title, I had initially thought for a second that this was asking what's your phone number
Just need to build your fortress of solitude.
This scene is iconic.
I love the JL Collins version:
Growing up, I thought that if I had $1M it would be enough to live a good life. Houses where I grew up generally cost now $700k-1M dollars now. Pay off the house, use the interests to pay off monthly bills. However, as I have gotten older, recklessly spending in my younger years (20s-30s), the number to retire and have some sort of security will be in the $15M+ easily. When I reach retirement age, it will no longer be 67. Rather, it is estimated from friends who deal with this situation daily is that it will most likely be 73-75 for my generation to collect social security.
So, there's a good chance I will be working til I hit the ground. I enjoy corporate work, the idea of owning a business, and doing engaging stuff on the daily to ever consider retirement. I will collect my toys along the way. Hopefully send my kids off to private school, a decent house, and leave money behind so my kids can do what they want to do, not because they have to.
Enough to put an end to this alimony, change my name, and move to a nonextradition country
Any tips on how to avoid your situation? Respectfully, no offence intended. Hope you’re doing okay pal.
Wear a rubber and don't fall for bottle rats
Don't get married, don't cohabitate, get a vasectomy, maybe consider celibacy while you're at it. Simple as.
Jokes aside, carefully vet any potential romantic partners, get rid of any unhealthy fetishes for mentally unstable women (no matter how good they are in bed), know the marriage/divorce laws (including common law) in and out, get an ironclad prenup, and perhaps consider fully securing your assets through a series of trusts so that you personally have 0 assets to your name for her to take in divorce. Is this excessive? Of course, but it's realistically the only way to be 100% secure these days. Anything less and you're taking a chance, the only question is "how much" of a chance are you willing to take.
Unless you actually become a monk, you will always face risk of STDs too, but you can only do your best to mitigate it and find a healthy balance of how much risk vs how much reward.
Probably $5M to leave day job and risk starting a business
Wow are these numbers primarily for NYC or for in the U.S.?
Not sure if you mean ride off into the sunset to be not working anymore and living a LOC lifestyle.
I think my number is $3M for now, should hit it in the next couple of years pending a liquidity event. If that happens I plan to roll the dice and drop most of it into a multi unit development deal for an up and coming franchise system. Luckily still young enough that if i completely strike out and blow it all I will be able to get back on track for a nice retirement regardless, but go big or go home.
.
Your “number” is much lower than you think it is.
I’d wager out of every person in here claiming $10mm+, maybe one or two even have $2mm liquid.
I’d also wager that 4/5 of those same people are <35 years old.
The older you get and the more you have in absolute terms, the less you realize you need to walk away. Unless you’re a masochist.
The caveat is if you come from a UHNW family/childhood. Then you have only known a certain type of lifestyle since your younger days.
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